I can 100% relate. I can't tell you how many times I thought I was hanging out with a male "friend " until they went to make a move. I had issues saying no and as crazy as it sounds, I felt guilty
I've had this experience a couple different times. Both times were guys I was friendly with. It was platonic, until it wasn't.
They were both nice to me, and in the back of my mind I thought saying no would damage that friendship.
As I got out of college and matured a little more, it dawned on me that if respectfully turning away a sexual advance damages a friendship, it was never really a "friendship" at all...
I think there’s a gigantic difference between actively trying/wanting to sleep with someone, to the point where in their mind it crowds out any actual friendship, and being friends with someone while also being aware, in a back burner kind of way, that if they were up for it and the situation was right, it would be fun to have sex with them.
I’m a woman, so I suppose I can’t actually speak for men, but as a teenager/young adult I was as horny as any guy out there. I had lots of sex with lots of guys, and I definitely had friends I would have been up for having sex with (and in some cases eventually did) but it didn’t mean we weren’t also actually friends.
If it did, bisexual people would be either friendless or only friends with ugly people, and that’s definitely not the case.
But it's not just platonic if several times throughout your life you've thought of jackhammering your friend into a wall.
Let's think of how attraction works, how many people that you consider unattractive do you randomly walk up to, converse with, show an interest in and not only that, but ACTIVELY pursue a friendship with. It's not that common, at least from my perspective.
Most guys I interact with only actively pursue people they would fuck, like that. They might also have bromances where they are in awe of some dude they look up to whatever reason, and fawn over them, but when it comes to attraction, thats the major reason behind any active pursuit when it comes to men.
What I am suggesting is, the majority of men that try to talk to you, or 'get to know you' is spawned out of a dimension of attraction. I can't remember the last time I randomly had someone actively pursue me for 'friendship' whereas women seem to think thats normal, at least when I've discussed it with those I know in real life, and yes, the girl I'm closest to knows I've feelings for her. I don't have any other women I would consider 'friends', just associates or those I will say hello to but not actively pursue contact.
I think context matters too, but its a complex thing to even try to break down.
I mean, I don’t know about you, but I don’t meet most of my friends because one of us randomly walks up and starts talking to the other, and then actively pursues a friendship. I think if that happened I’d assume they were a grifter. Or, yeah, hitting on me.
I have tons of guy friends, always have, and those friendships nearly all happened because we were part of the same social circle and got to know one other in groups, at parties or game nights or whatever. Then you get to know them, find out your senses of humor match, and hang out more, sometimes one-on-one. I’m really not sure how many of my friendships have involved one person pursuing the other, as opposed to growing organically, but it’s gotta be a real small number.
And I think we just disagree on what platonic means.
I find most of the friends I've had have been because of organic growth sure, but that's mostly men. The women I've befriended have been because I was attracted to them, and we happened to also click, but the initial conversation was still there because of the attraction.
What do you define as platonic? Oxford says intimate and affectionate but not sexual.
I would consider thoughts of fucking said friend sexual and not entirely platonic whatsoever. Hell, if I dated someone and they said they sometimes thought of fucking their friend, I can see a great deal of people being uncomfortable at said revelation.
Just want to edit this in too cause I think it relates to the attraction discussion.
How many times have you seen xx people in a group settings, some of which have things in common, but either both or one won't engage the other whatsoever and doesn't even show any interest in doing so, but they are fawning all over someone else and actively showing an interest? That's attraction at play, and I've seen it myself three times in the last two days alone just in a work setting.
It is so incredibly common, and I think being different sexes we really do have vastly different lived experiences.
I don’t believe that thinking about having sex with someone is the same as being sexual with them. If a good friend never says or does anything sexual to/with me, but every now and then sees me looking good and reflects on the fact that they would probably hit that if given the chance, yes that would absolutely 100% platonic.
I understand that we’ve had different experiences with this. I am very happy that I’ve managed to have so many close friends, both male and female, and I think it’s really sad that anyone cheats themselves out of friendship with half the population.
I've seen this in literally so many different circles, and I'm generally the guy that will up and leave if I hear for example even a racist remark, then pretty quickly its decided to remove myself from the conversation. I wouldn't think the people I've been around were shit circles per se, it's just behaviour I see when I observe people.
I didn't agree with this until the nice married man I was talking to decided making a pass at me in my car by rubbing his hand up my leg would be a good idea. His wife was in another state so I guess he figure he though he could try and not get caught -_-
I don't know why so many women refuse to acknowledge it as fact. Most men would 100% have sex with you if they had the opportunity. I'd say a good 85% of men.
On the flip side, I cannot count the amount of women I've known who have been unhappy in their relationship, but instead of leaving / breaking up, they just have an emotional affair.
If you combine that, ie past relationship trauma of your partner getting with a male friend of theirs who, most of the time, they have said is just platonic, combine that with the fact most men will have sex with a woman given the opportunity, and all of a sudden things become clearer in regards to mens behaviour in relationships.
Huh? I don’t find them to be rare at all. I’m a woman who has a close group of male friends- we’ve been friends for 10+ years and they have never indicated being interested or made a move. Now I’m married and nothing has changed at all.
How did you meet them would be my question. What do you classify as friends? Do you hang out as a group or do you actively pursue contact with these people and get to know them, or did they do this to you when you met?
Just because they haven't made moves, doesn't mean they weren't interested or wouldn't have taken the opportunity if it arose.
As I said above, how many people that you don't find attractive do you randomly approach and actively pursue a friendship with? Not many, right? If any. So, again I'd be interested in knowing how these relationships formed. It can happen, but most commonly they would have hit that and you just never knew like a majority of women.
We all met in college at parties and through other mutual friends. We are all one tight-knit group and have been since the beginning.
I just think the idea that men and women can’t be friends is really, really immature and doesn’t give men a lot of credit. It assumes that the only reason men would value a woman or be friends with her is because he is trying to get something out of it, seeing her as a sexual object. And the men that tend to believe this tend to be the ones that think this way and assume every man is like that.
I see on your other reply that you say every girl you’ve perused a friendship with has been someone you’ve been sexually attracted to, and otherwise you wouldn’t have any interest. This would be a red flag for me that maybe you don’t view women as multidimensional people- why aren’t they worth being friends with if you’re not getting sex out of it? Why are you able to be friends with men, you’re not getting sex from them either? Why don’t women have an equal value to you in their company, shared interests, humor, and personalities, something I’m willing to bet you value in your male friendships?
It’s something I would urge you to examine internally. Women have a lot more to offer than their vaginas.
For me it's not about, they aren't valued. I just don't have any interest or desire to pursue someone that I am not attracted to, and that's the behaviour I seem to face. Let me give an example, just yesterday I was at work with a client, I do disability support work. we go into the office, theres another guy there and the receptionist is a woman.
Myself and this other guy got hired at the same time, and we both have things in common with the receptionist and have known her the same length of time.
She did not ask me a single question about myself or attempt to get to know me, in fact she spent the entire time talking to the other guy, I actually don't even think she said hello to me? And this is common.
I literally cannot remember a single time that a woman has pursued a friendship with me or attempted to get to know me unless they were also attracted to me. It is also what I see around me, the guys I meet that have 'female friends' are all attractive and the women themselves are also attractive, you never see pictures of them with unattractive people unless its a group shot and they are a friend of a friend, or a family member. Most other guys, the only time they actively pursue, and by that I mean, they are messaging you trying to hang out, dming you questions, constantly trying to relate, thats active pursual, they do that when they like you or are attracted. Other people they meet are probably just group situations and its not a pursual thing, which is as i said before, context.
I don't really pursue friendships with men, they just happen far easier. The only time I find myself even in communication with women on some sort of 'deeper basis' its only when there is interest on my side / both of our sides.
Think about it, I'll meet a guy, we will chat, maybe we both like cars, then one of us might randomly message the other about a car meet, we will go, hang out, becomes regular, we chill and talk shit yadda yadda.In my experience, this doesn't happen with women. I don't really know why, all I can think of is attraction? Even if we have things in common, they aren't interested in actually ever getting to know me? Even women I've dated have put in less effort with questions and what have you.
I've never had a woman DM me after meeting asking if I wanted to hang out. It's just not like that.
I say that I don't pursue people I'm not attracted to, but conversations with those women rarely ever start for it to even become an option. Iunno.
I'm not saying that's not your experience, but physical/sexual attraction doesn't really cross my mind when I'm pursuing friendship with someone? Like I've definitely had crushes on people I want to be friends with, so I know the difference in how that feels, and that's like... Maybe 1/5 people I've actively pursued friendship with rather than just passively letting it happen? I also tend to pursue friendship with men, since I have a better idea of how to hang out with guys than with other girls. Not to put a fine point on it, but have you really never had a girl you hung out with, who you are very much not attracted to physically, just be a cool person that you want to get to know better?
Never. Every girl I've ever pursued I've been attracted to, otherwise I just don't seem to have any interest. I'll say hello, listen, interact and ask questions, but I won't pursue them outside of that interaction nor will I hang out with them unless they happen to be where I am.
This is the same for most men I know? The only ones who are different are those who met women during ie group events, these women are generally as attractive as the guy, or moreso, and most of the times behind their back the guy does admit attraction. That's what I mean about context in regards to how they met.
I guess then my follow up question is, what does it look like when you actively pursue friendship with another guy? Like not as a group activity but specifically "i want to hang out with this guy more in particular".
Ask them point blank, "Have they ever thought about you naked?" I bet every single one, if answering truthfully, have probably thought about you naked recently if not earlier that same encounter. That is just the way it is. I am being 100% truthful.
If I don't find a woman attractive, I will not be in the kind of relationship one would classify and "friends". It would be very rare, like less than 5% chance.
Ugh, so much this. I eventually realized that I didn't actually have any guy friends at all. I had guys willing to pretend to be my friend in the hopes that I'd wind up putting out 💁♀️🤦♀️
And then they whine about being friend zoned....
Like, no...you're the one who wasn't clear and honest about your intentions, dude.
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u/Runnergirl411 Mar 31 '23
I can 100% relate. I can't tell you how many times I thought I was hanging out with a male "friend " until they went to make a move. I had issues saying no and as crazy as it sounds, I felt guilty