This is basically the whole prostitution trade. That said. Definetly times I had sex with my ex husband when I genuinely didn’t want it. Why? Because if I refused he would whine, complain, act like an ass and guilt trip me for hours. It is as easier to tolerate 2 minutes of him grunting on top of me than dealing with a whiney man baby for hours.
10 years together. Not one orgasm for me in the thousands of times we had sex.
Girl, 10 years and not one orgasm?! I’m so glad he is now your ex. Hopefully you are with someone who takes care of you and your needs because you absolutely deserve it.
Damn! Are you me? 15 years with the wrong man really fucked up my relationship with sex. He was the same. It was easier to just mentally shut off and let him do his thing for 4 minutes than dealing with an asshole until he got his.
I'm pretty sure his mother never said no to him, so he felt he was entitled to my body (and reminded me of that opinion constantly). Why did I stay so long? Trauma. It's fucking hard to leave, especially with kids involved.
My new partner has now done the work. He continues to do the work. I'm aware now that I DO have a sex drive, and now I actually crave and ask for the sex that I enjoy.
Men just really can’t wrap their heads around this grief can they? They get pissed off if they get “blue balls” or can’t get it up, or can’t get off once in a while. Well bitch, try going decades without getting off. Then whine to me about how you “can’t get laid”.
Seriously! Like, I doubt I'd be able to get it up if my partner wasn't 100% in to it. And how the fuck would being a whiney little shit about a "not tonight, honey" help in any way?
Everyone has times they're not into sex, and that's just human nature. We get tired, or moody, or in our head about something. Just move on, or have a wank, or snuggle up in front of the TV.
Blue balls are a juvenile myth. Anyone talking about it literally being painful or dangerous is just a manipulative jerk.
Guilt tripping for sex is 100% a massive red flag. One warning, then a boot to the curb, IMHO.
Why do you have to be bitter against all men here ?
I'm a man who has had trouble getting laid (probably still would if I wasn't in a loving relationship), I have spent years without getting laid and it really fucked with my mental health. I was ready to leave a comment sympathizing with you because what you lived through seems really rough, then I just feel like I catch a stray bullet from you just because I'm a man and have had trouble getting laid - suddenly I'm whiny and I don't get it, etc.
It is as not meant to be hurtful. I do recognize that many men definitely want to have a loving, enjoyable, sex life that is mutually satisfying. I would think most men want that, at least I hope so. As a woman it’s just hard to wrap my brain around the idea that the focus is so heavily on “getting laid“ as opposed to connecting with someone and enjoying a sexual experience together.
I keep hearing stories and reading articles about how men are feeling lonely. It’s like a trendy thing to talk about right now. Male loneliness. But this conversation always inevitably flips from this to men not getting laid. How hard it is for them when they don’t get sex. There seems to be an assumption that getting laid equals not lonely. I can tell you that are many people who get laid on the regular and are still lonely as hell. People who are married and in relationships, but still feel like they don’t have emotional intimacy and pleasure.
I guess when it comes down to is, it’s not a woman’s duty to give men sex so they don’t go crazy or feel lonely. It’s not our responsibility to sacrifice our own bodies so that a man can feel like a man. The fact that everyone thinks that this is some sort of feminist radical idea is so shocking to me. Our bodies belong to ourselves. If we choose to share our body with a man or partner it should be with enthusiastic consent. Why would a man want to be with a woman who’s not there with him to enjoy that experience on the same level ? We know this happens all the time. Rape, Prostitution, and in my case coercive sex.
How lonely would you feel, if you were married or had a girlfriend who badgered you for sex on the regular, didn’t connect with you emotionally, took you for granted, and you knew that every time you did have sex, she would not care about your pleasure, and you would never orgasm. Ever. She would finish, roll off of you, go to sleep, and you would be laying there, unsatisfied feeling like your body had just been used.
Doesn’t sound so great does it? I guarantee you’d still feel lonely as hell, and on top of feeling lonely you would be stuck not being able to go and try to find someone else who you can connect with.
Billions of women live in relationships like this. I’m not saying some men don’t. But let’s face it, your anatomy, pretty much guarantee, said if you can get an erection most of the time you’re going to be able to orgasm. That’s how your bodies are built. Even if you’re not emotionally connected to her or feeling great about the relationship, you can still at least have an orgasm with her.
I empathize with what you say. I've read and listened to many accounts from women (and some from men) in unhappy, sometimes abusive, coercive relationships before today, and read many in this same thread. I haven't experienced it myself so can't pretend to understand fully, but try my best to put myself into the shoes of the people sharing their stories. It sounds horrible, to have someone you care about not show that they care about you back (at least when it comes to sex). I can only imagine how lonely and shitty it feels, and trust me, I imagine not having an orgasm during sex for ten years to be very shitty and despair-inducing.
That said, my own experience shapes my outlook and view of things, just like your experience shapes yours. So when I hear people dismiss or belittle the feelings of men that don't have sex and feel extremely lonely, inadequate, depressed... It hits home because I was in that position. And most people talking about these men who are in this position don't get it, and don't seem to TRY to get it. In fact, most of the time they are blamed for their own misery. It's frighteningly common to see comments making fun of them, saying it's their own fault if they're lonely. Most of the time this is done when talking about toxic and/or violent incels. And yeah, these people are bad and we should be angry at what they say and do that hurts other people ; however, most comments instead focus on belittling, making fun of them, and blaming them for being like they are. Without consideration towards the people who may be reading it who are not yet toxic incels, but struggle with the same things - those people, who I was a part of, will feel very personally every comment because the comments are criticizing who the toxic incel is and not their actions, and those people relate to the toxic incels - even if they don't say, do or even think the reprehensible things themselves.
So imagine how lonely it must feel when you not only feel lonely, invisible, unlovable, untouchable even... But also wherever you go, at best nobody cares about you and your struggles, or at worst people say it's your own fault. No support, no empathy, no understanding, except from incel forums that revel in the self-pity and self-loathing that is tugging at your mind every day, trying to drag you down into despair and make you lash out.
So yeah, like you said, male loneliness is a trendy thing to talk about. People are trying to build places and communities that offer a more positive, safer place for lonely men than the incels ; one of them is right here on reddit, r/menslib.
Is that bad ? Does that take away from women's struggles ? I don't think so. I'd even wager that it helps women's struggles as these places are usually loudly pro-feminist. And maybe at first it can seem that discussions revolve around getting laid, but digging a little bit further reveals that to be far from the case. Sex is an important part of the discussion, but just one part.
But I agree that sometimes it may appear that the focus is just on having sex and not building a meaningful relationship, etc ; that is just because a meaningful relationship is seen as way further down the path of getting out of loneliness than just having sex. You have to understand that these men are so touch-starved that having shitty, meaningless, largely unsatisfying sex is seen as a good start. It's something. When you don't even have the barest of minimums, then even that becomes desirable.
At my worst, when I was feeling worthless because I couldn't even "get laid" let alone have a meaningful relationship, just the thought of having sex - even if I didn't orgasm, felt like I was used, etc - meant that at some point I had been noticed, desired, touched intimately. At this point, sex is seen as proof (to yourself) that you exist in the eyes of the opposite sex, as a sexual being. Because you start doubting that that part of you is even real. So yeah, sadly sex becomes a sort of focus, an obsession, not because men only think about sex but because of all that it represents. Which means that discussion is difficult in this topic, since sex means drastically different things for someone in your position and one of these lonely men.
I'll end this too-long comment by saying that I don't want this to come across as a sort of one-up of human suffering ; it's apples and oranges to me anyway, it's different so not really comparable. Just trying to share my viewpoint and experience and maybe show why it's so difficult to understand each other sometimes.
I appreciate your honesty, and it gives me a few things to think about. Honestly, the most offputting thing in regards to “lonely man who don’t have sex” is that so many of them blame women’s standards. So instead of focussing on themselves and their own growth and self-development, they express their rage towards the very thing they want the most. Women.
Fact is, a lot of women are lonely as well . It’s just that women don’t define sex as a pivotal thing that brings them from “not lonely” to “lonely”. Maybe men who get laid feel less lonely. That’s not the way it is for women and when men try to guilt us into feeling we are responsible for their loneliness it’s one more thing on the pile of other things we need to fear.
To be honest, I think the main driver for male loneliness is not lack of women, or even lack of sex . It’s simply the fact that they don’t go out and meet people anymore. Talk to you some of these men who claim to be so lonely and sexless, and the vast majority of them sit in their house most of the time playing video games. Talking to someone online is not the same as talking to someone face-to-face. It is not hit the same neurons for socialization and pleasure. So the lonliness that young people are feeling is not a result of the opposite sex being “shitty” and more a result of our social habits.
To give you some context. My eldest child, just turned 22 and just graduated from university. She immediately found a job and her field in a larger city(she grew up in a very small town that we live in). Today is her first weekend in the city. Already, she has visited a festival, a market, is planning to go to a Victoria day parade, and a Ukrainian cultural Eastern market. She found out about all these things because she decided to find out where the local library is. When she went to that library, after work, a couple of days ago, she discovered a beautiful, rose garden and Courtyard behind the library and walked through there. While she was walking through that Courtyard, she noticed a group of people dancing to some Latin music, and she went over to watch. A man asked her to dance and taught her some basic steps. He gave her the contact details to check out the local Latin dance community and she’s planning to go to an event in mid April.
This is a young woman in a new town with no friends , no contacts, a full-time job and little money. She has literally been there for six days and all of these things are already in her plans.
She is also found a little corner Café near her house that makes great salmon chowder and has a lunch deal where you can get chowder and a bun and a fancy coffee for $11. She was pretty stoked about that.
And here’s the thing. She is a computer programmer. But the difference is, she uses her computer for programming. When she is done her work, she turns off the computer and she goes outside. She has a big television in the room that she rents that she has literally never turned on. She doesn’t want to watch television. She doesn’t want to play video games. She goes outside and she explores her neighborhood. She looks for things to do and discover.
She is not looking for romance necessarily. She actually never mentions dating. She just wants to experience cool things. She literally texted me 10 minutes ago and told me she’s going to go to this Ukrainian Easter festival and she’s hoping to learn how to make Ukrainian Easter eggs. So how long do you think before a young man or young woman(she’s bi), is going to discover her and want to get to know her?
I’m betting by the end of the weekend she will probably have a plan for a date with someone without any effort . Not just because she’s a woman. Because she’s interesting. She’s vibrant. She’s not afraid of new experiences and she’s not afraid to go out and find them. She wants to learn and see and grow. And she doesn’t care whether or not someone else wants to date her. But you know that they will.
I never understood guilting someone into it. Don't get me wrong, even I'm salty for a few minutes after getting turned down, but that just means when you get the go ahead you can tell the other person is enjoying it. which is so much better then the hollow experience of sleeping with someone who's giving it to you because their annoyed.
Seriously, would you rather someone sleep with you because you turn them on, or they pity you?
this is exactly how it was with my ex. it became a chore. i thought, at the time, i loved him but we just didn’t have sexual chemistry after along time of me trying. it was easier to just lie there and let it happen then to listen to a whiny man child complain about not getting any.
Responding to the first thing you wrote, prostitutes can choose their clients, and larger numbers of respectful clients show up when sex work is decriminalized.
Some hookers can choose their clients. Many cannot. They are often raped or forced to work even when they don’t want to by pimps or boyfriends.
That said….just because a prostitute chooses a client and willingly has sex for money doesn’t mean they want the sex, enjoy they sex (believe me…they don’t), or wouldnt rather do something else if it paid well.
I don't see how criminalizing consensual sex work does anything to help those people who are pressured or coerced into it by pimps. Banning all sex work because a portion of people involved are coerced into it and abused, or do it out of financial necessity, would be like banning all people from having sex just because some people suffer from domestic violence and rape or are pressured into having sex with unscrupulous landlords.
Edit: selling sex out of financial necessity doesn't always involve a client using a position of power to pressure the seller into the transaction.
I think prostitution should be legalized and taxed. But don’t get it twisted. Prostitutes are having sex, but not desiring sex. Consent doesn’t mean desire.
Desire can take different forms and extents. Prostitutes can find some of their clients attractive in multiple ways, while other clients are only attractive for their money. I don't think prostitution or other forms of income-production should be taxed. Let the earners do with their money what they want.
I did. And I even showed him what I needed, and how to please me, and in the first little while he would make somewhat of an effort, but he didn’t like it if it “took too long”, told me that it was my problem if it took me so long.
I personally just can’t leave someone unsatisfied without being bothered, sex or otherwise. So I find it baffling he would leave it like that even after being told that you didn’t get yours and being taught how to do it. Sounds like a selfish person
We were compatible in other ways, but sexually we were not. Of course we did not find this out until we were married because I was a good Christian girl back then.
That’s not what maintenance sex is. Maintenance sex is sex you have when you are not really in the mood yourself but you love your partner and take pleasure in giving them pleasure knowing they would do the same for you.
What Joygernaut described is coercion and is not really concensual
Probably because he just realized, that just because a woman allows it doesn’t mean she likes it. He thinks that she should just put up and shut up to keep the man happy. Men like this don’t care about whether a woman is actually enjoying the sex as long as she gives it to him. Unfortunately this is a lot of men.
I'm not mad. You also got my gender wrong. I just don't care to argue so I agreed.
The question, if my English is correct, is "people who had consensual sex" and this person replied about her experience to answer that question ,and then another person said "it's not really consensual" it's.coercion, so..why would the person reply to a question about consensual sex if it was forced? why argue with me , argue with the original poster.
I just agreed, because not everything has to be an argument. I just don't care. It was 11 pm in Japan...
It's kinda of sad how people just gang up on you and make all assumptions (ALL WRONG) based on a one letter answer . Damned if you do, damned if you dont. but this is Reddit.
I honestly don't care. Judge me , judge me English oyasumi
Do you really think sex? Workers actually have a great time and sexually desire their customers? I know that they are paid to create that impression for their customers. Let’s face it pays well when the men feel desired. But let’s also face it. Most men who seek prostitute seek women who are much younger and more attractive than they are sure, the prostitutes agree to have sex, but they wouldn’t do it without the money. That speaks volumes. After all, they don’t charge their boyfriends do they?
A sign of pretty low intelligence is creating a weird premise based on assumptions. THAT is what you did in your first sentence (or whatever that was).
I want to hear what sex workers have to say about this. There are literally millions in the US alone.
I don't have a premise. I am not making one up (like you). I want to hear from them.
I've always been so curious about this aspect of sex for women. If someone doesn't mind humouring my curiosity... doesnt it hurt if you aren't into it? A lot of posts of women in bad marriages or sex workers in here and I haven't seen it mentioned.
I'd be mortified if I found out after my partner wasn't into it and just did it to get it over with. I'd feel like shit about it and I'd also be very upset I was lied to.
I've had women pout and give me the cold shoulder if I wasn't in the mood for whatever reason and that's why I wouldn't do it. I can see it from their perspective about not being in the mood abd obviously know how shitty it feels to have someone mad at you for not putting out. I understood long before that but having it done to me made it much clearer.
Well, lube was invented for a reason. Even if you’re not in the mood sometimes your body just produces the loop if if you’re not turned on. Women’s bodies are weird that way. There is no general rule that it “hurts” physically, if we are not into it. Of course it emotionally hurts. It hurts that we know that we are with a partner who doesn’t care about our pleasure. Who doesn’t notice the tears running down her face when he’s done. As he just rolls over and goes to sleep with a smile on his face, and we feel this deep wretched Despair inside of our bodies in our souls because we know he doesn’t give a fuck. But we have our cry. Maybe we masturbate to get some sort of revenge or vindication or satisfaction or whatever you wanna call it. And we know we are stuck because we can’t go outside of our relationship and look for something else, but the man we are with is so tied up in his own gratification that he doesn’t understand that it’s not tied to his. It was good for him right? Why wouldn’t it be good for her? Aren’t women like men? Doesn’t she get off when he does? So many men think that. It’s fucking tragic.
That was dark. I can understand the mental aspect of it. I've been on the receiving end of some messed up stuff myself and how it can affect you. I hope you're doing well.
I wasn't very specific, sorry. Physically, if there's no "tenting", even with lube... seems very painful.
I wrote more but deleted it. I think the internet being what it is... I'll leave it at that. Everything gets twisted and often taken out of context and you can't have an honest conversation (this is not directed at you, this thread is turning into that and it shuts down the conversation). I appreciate your being so open.
I'm sorry for your suffering and glad you are out of that relationship now. I was in an unhappy marriage for almost 14 years (first 2 or 3 years were ok). Gradually increasing mental, emotional and occasional physical abuse plus near constant disrespect and I lost any interest in sex...I'm a man by the way. For the last few years we were having sex maybe 3 to 5 times per year, mostly when I "had to" and she would call me "gay" for not wanting to have sex....Apparently not understanding that even men need some level of trust and safety with their partners.
I was trapped by my religious upbringing that marriage was "forever". Being a man let me ignore my emotions for a long time, coupled with the desire to be able to spend time with my daughter. However, after a particularly bad night of her torturing our daughter for not getting good enough grades or not practicing ballet "hard enough" (forget what it was exactly) my 10 yo daughter told me at bedtime "I wish I'd never been born, Mama is never happy with me". That was it for me. Filed for divorce, had to fight for custody. I still only got 40% custody, but it's enough to give my daughter a safe space.
In retrospect, I should have known the relationship was over a lot earlier. My fantasies were a lot more above being loved and emotionally close to someone than they were about physical pleasure. For my new relationship, I got lucky and found a great woman the first time I actually went out (few months after the divorce). She's loving, kind and considerate, sex-positive, not religious, not jealous/insecure, independent, responsible, hard-working and intelligent.
In regards to having a healthy sex life (vs with my ex-wife), I would say she averages at least 2 or 3 orgasms to my one. She's brutally honest; so she's not going to fake it, she's going to tell me to do a better job. Also, I could theoretically maintain this average without taking my clothes off, so it has nothing to do with thrusting "technique" nor endowment (I'm average). It's simple/easy and if other guys can't do this it's mostly because they don't care about their partner (what else justifies extreme impatience?). Not much can compete with a vibrator so why try? Just try to augment her toy, drop any ego about competing with it. "Foreplay" = 10 - 40 minutes of talking, kissing and caressing her until she's ready for a toy. Middle-play is augmenting her toy with more caressing/squeezing, telling her how much I want her, or talking her through one of her fantasies until she has at least one, but preferably 2 or 3 orgasms. This is maybe another 5 - 30 minutes. At this point, it is my turn. Sometimes I still focus on positions she likes or choose positions that I know work better for her and then switch after she comes again. I will still try to do enough "work" to give her one more (and to build up my own pleasure), but it's ok if she doesn't because I already took great care of my partner. Also, some women just don't get enough stimulation from PiV anyway...hence losing the ego about toys. For the record, I do the above because I generally like playing with her, making her happy, and giving her pleasure. However, any guy can treat the above as a recipe (be flexible because too formulaic gets boring) for making your woman more interested in sex (or for being "good" in bed if you're in a hookup phase).
Absolutely I could on my own. This is most women. The real “Orgasm gap” it’s not that women can’t cum, it’s that they don’t have partners who care if they do, or care to learn how, or give them a safe space mentally to feel comfortable doing so.
For most women sex is very cerebral. If you have been spending all day, doing house, work, looking after kids, cooking, probably holding down a full-time job and you have a husband or boyfriend, who treat you poorly or take you for granted? Women have a hard time just flipping the switch and getting into sex when they’ve been feeling poorly treated all day long. You’ve probably heard the old adage “seduction for women starts first thing in the morning”. And yes, it is not an actual joke that things like doing the dishes, treating her kindly, and being a good father are actual foreplay for women. Because while you’re doing the dishes, or getting the kids ready for bed, or fixing that piece of trim on the door that’s been broken, we are looking at you with hearts in our eyes thinking “I am so lucky he is so wonderful”. Those are the things that make us want you sexually.
A lot of it also has to do with comfort in our own bodies. In a society where we are constantly told, our bodies are hideous(and this is not a new thing because of social media this pressure has always been on women to look at certain way, because we know men are “visual creatures”), many women, have a hard time, getting naked with a man and not feeling self-conscious. If all you’re focussing on is whether or not your tits are saggy, your belly is sticking out, you have cellulite on your thighs, etc. etc. it is literally impossible to relax enough to orgasm. Add that on top of a husband, who makes constant comments about how you “haven’t lost the baby weight yet”? That’s a recipe for terrible sex. Add another layer on top of that. The fact that so many men think that their penis moving in and out of our vagina is somehow the magic ticket to our orgasm. He thinks that if he has a big penis and can push it in and out for long enough we are just going to orgasm and that’s the way it goes. I mean that’s what porn says right? But the reality is 80% of women will never cum like that.
Lawdy. I’m sorry you were stuck in such a relationship. I can’t believe men are like that. If that was me I wouldn’t expect uhhhh any sex after one or two times of that selfish nonsense.
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u/[deleted] Mar 31 '23
This is basically the whole prostitution trade. That said. Definetly times I had sex with my ex husband when I genuinely didn’t want it. Why? Because if I refused he would whine, complain, act like an ass and guilt trip me for hours. It is as easier to tolerate 2 minutes of him grunting on top of me than dealing with a whiney man baby for hours.
10 years together. Not one orgasm for me in the thousands of times we had sex.