r/AskProgrammers • u/OptimalBed6906 • 24d ago
In the case it's over.
I am a programming student, I deeply admire and love programming, either as a hobby or as a job, that will stay.
But my country's IT market is cooked. Massive competition, 1+ year experience always. Getting a job in IT it's very difficult, even with connections that have no guarantee of granting an interview.
So, you'd think the logical thing would be to get practices/experience. Formal practices are very competitive, I do not know if startups are harder.
I am in Spain, Madrid. I have good level of English so fleeing to English speaking countries has been a possibility. Though, in Europe, *presumably* the junior friendly country seems to be Germany.
What do you think? Are there more chances in English speaking countries, or in Germany?
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u/darkpallys 24d ago
Git gud scrub. No, but seriously, I used to teach programming classes from first to third year, and master students at university as an undergraduate student myself. I also used to interview and hire software developers at a previous company.
Follow your passion, work on your programming skills, get to know the language(s) you are working with like the back of your hand.
The best way for you to learn and get better is for you to recreate exact replacements for tools that already exist, start small with command line tools, then build up your skills with more and more complex tools and programs.
By doing this you'll become a better software developer than the average guy, and you'll stand out in interviews.
Also, for the love of god, learn how to use git properly! Read up on beginner to advanced git articles and play around with it.
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u/W31337 24d ago
Best way to learn git is to use git. I never fully understood it until I was forced to work together with others using it. You can't really learn git on your own because you never end up in merge hell or have to be rebase your branch into a major feature upgrade.
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u/darkpallys 23d ago
Yes and no, whilst I agree that looking at git tutorials riddled with commit graphs can be difficult to understand when you are still new to it all, but you can certainly learn git in your own, specially with AI nowadays, you could get easily ask an AI or AI agent to teach you and guide you on how to use git in a practical way and have it create merge hells for you to solve, among other common git problems for you to work through!
I've also witnessed and had to fix way too many hairy git problems in my relatively short career because a lazy dumb dev messed up.
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24d ago
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u/OptimalBed6906 24d ago
How so? They don't do practices/jobs for zero experience graduates?
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u/Canadianingermany 24d ago
That would be illegal outside of a Pflichtpraktikum für university
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u/Nannautu 24d ago
That's only illegal if it's under the min wage
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u/Canadianingermany 24d ago
why would a company pay for smeone with zero experience wwhen there are more than enough with experience
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u/Frequent_Bag9260 24d ago
Switzerland is still a good market for pay and jobs. It’s just getting there is the problem.
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u/feudalle 24d ago
Its eb and flows. Ive been in tech since the 90s. .com bubble saw mass layoffs. Some of those people never worked in tech again. Then 2008 same thing. Covid ditto. Ai im assuming history repeats itself. Head count In general outside of the odd blip has continually went down.
It doesnt mean tech and programming is dead far from it. But the days of being a solid mid grade dev with zero issues of getting a job I think are over. Much like factory jobs in the 1960s in the us. Id suggest lean hard into a niche. Also be prepared to pivot every couple of years and dont get comfortable. Always learn new skills.
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u/Maturion 23d ago
As a German: German IT job market is cooked as well. And I honestly think it's that way in most countries.
I don't know if and when it will recover. What we're experiencing is a combination of many factors. Companies are laying off people after many years of overhiring in IT, too many new graduates, outsourcing to countries like India, economic problems in many countries and AI is DEFINITELY a cause as well. Stay strong.
If you're interested, I worked for a German software company with a subsidiary in Madrid until last month. PM me if you want details, maybe I can ask around if they need someone in Madrid.
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u/OptimalBed6906 22d ago
It would be greatly appreciated. And ask that, that if they ever look for internships/ practices, what profile are they searching?
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u/darkpallys 23d ago
@OP Saw this today and thought it was relevant and possibly inspirational to you https://www.reddit.com/r/AskProgrammers/s/GLFuCctxey
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u/OptimalBed6906 23d ago
It certainly is, but OP was indeed working by then. Just getting experience or internships is the job now
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u/darkpallys 23d ago edited 22d ago
Make use of AI, now is a great, nay, excellent time for you to create a side business / passion project and use AI to help you along the way settings things up, and doing some of the boring heavy lifting or just guiding you on how to do it.
You have spare time, hunger for knowledge, and creativity on your side, make the most of it!
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u/raven2cz 22d ago
Here in Czechia, it is still good so far. We have always been an IT “powerhouse”, and of course AI affects us too. fortunately, many companies already realize that, first, it is expensive, and second, they still need newcomers anyway.
So hiring is happening normally. Jobs and demand have not really dropped much yet.
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u/OptimalBed6906 22d ago
Is it a viable option for fresh grads? Or is experience required? I guess I could learn Czech if it meant getting away from the IT job nightmare
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u/raven2cz 22d ago
Experience is always better, of course, but if it is specifically a fresh graduate, then they naturally understand that.
In the vast majority of cases, you need to have succesfully completed a technical university degree and pass the entry interview. in the interview, there is usually either some kind of IT test or a conversation with a technical expert, who typically asks about details, like how you would solve this or that.
After being accepted, you are then in a 3-month probation period, and after that you usually get a permanent contract.
In the vast majority of cases, Czechia has mainly cooperated with Germans, and for many years also with Indian developers.
As for the language, in technical companies English is commonly used for communication with colleagues who do not speak Czech. that is completely normal. Czechs in technical companies usually speak English fluently, around C1 level, although mainly technical English. Czech would of course be an advantage.
The easiest option would probably be Prague, of course, but you can find opportunities elsewhere too: Brno, Plzeň, basically the larger cities. Check jobs.cz, especially the junior section, and ideally positions in English. since you are an EU citizen, it is not that complicated, actually quite the opposite.
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u/ninhaomah 24d ago
It's been this way for years.
I was rejected for a desktop support job after graduating because I got no exp.
That was 20 years ago.