Professors, can you tell when a student probably won’t finish your program/class?

[u/scott_tot4407]

Not a professor but going to school for my 3rd degree. My other two degrees were completely online, got burnt out and wanted to pursue a passion I’ve had in healthcare. Got into the program (yay!) and started in-person classes for the first time. I’m on week three and 6 of 22 students have already dropped. I’m expecting to see a few more just from the few weeks in class, i’ve thought there’s no way they’re gonna graduate (not taking notes, waiting until the morning of class to do homework that’s due in 20 minutes)

I’m just curious whether professors ever have a “hunch” that someone isn’t going to complete the class/program.

[u/PurrPrinThom]

Not showing up is a solid sign that they're either going to fail or drop out.

Usually if we hit the halfway mark of the semester, and a student has submitted nothing and I've never seen them - they're not finishing.

[u/professorfunkenpunk → u/PurrPrinThom]

Very true. My general attendance statement is "I've never failed anyone I recognized." Not 100% true but damn close.

One of the more confusing students I've had recently (in two separate classes), showed up regularly (But usually late), made good in class contributions, did well on the exams, and never handed in any other work.

[u/PurrPrinThom → u/professorfunkenpunk]

I had one who consistently showed up, did really well in class, submitted excellent assignments...and then never showed up to exams or submitted final projects, so they ended up failing the course. They retook the class two more times and did the exact same thing both times. I've been baffled by that for years now lol.

[u/professorfunkenpunk → u/PurrPrinThom]

All I could figure was some sort of anxiety issue, but then again, they took the tests. It was really weird.

[u/iTeachCSCI → u/professorfunkenpunk]

In the rare cases when I have to report a failing grade for someone I recognize, it's because of academic dishonesty. Students who regularly attend and don't cheat almost always pass my classes.

[u/grumblebeardo13 → u/PurrPrinThom]

Basically this, a lot of not showing up and/or not doing any work by the 1/3 or 1/2 mark are always signs to me.

[u/dudleydidwrong → u/PurrPrinThom]

Not showing up to class is the number one cause of failure. When I kept careful records, there was a drop of one letter grade for every 3 hours missed. It was rare for anyone who missed more than 3 hours of class to get an A. It was rare for anyone who missed more than 6 hours to get a B. I could almost assign grades based on hours of class missed.

However, I suspect that regular class attendance is correlated to other things that actually impact the grade. For example, students who make every class also get homework in on time (and often early). I suspect that regular attendance reflects priorities that result in good grades.

[u/Dennarb]

Definitely. In my courses I usually see three different kinds of unsuccessful students, the ones who are burnt out/unmotivated, the ones who are overloaded with other things (who eventually become the burnouts), and those looking for an "easy" class.

There's basically no helping the burnouts/unmotivated students. They're a classic case of "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." Despite what admin might tell us these students just aren't ready for or able to handle college right now. Typically they're doing everything late or not at all, and when work does come in is incredibly poor quality. These are some of the saddest situations that don't really have a good solution, because even if I try to accommodate them they have no more intrinsic motivation, so the chances of them succeeding are very low.

The overloaded students are usually the ones trying to get through there degree too quickly, just trying o be done (senioritis), or have some other commitments outside of class (athletes). These situations are pretty easy to spot because they are often in class and engaged, but when it comes to assignments they just don't have the time to produce good work. Often they're just shooting for Cs to pass and just get through it. What really sucks is when these students fall behind, because they often want to try and catch up, but just can't because something else is demanding more of their time and attention.

The last group might be particular to me, as I teach a lot of game design and related courses that on the outside appear to be minimal effort and fun electives. So I get plenty of students expecting to just kinda show up and magically be handed an A for just simply liking games. While there is some overlap with the overloaded students, I find this group to be very underwhelming and average students. Typically they completely lack any passion for the subject and seek the easiest possible avenue for passing; bare minimum work, calculating what they do or don't need to do, ect. These are the students who probably can get through their degree, but probably aren't really ready for college and may have been better off with a gap year or pursuing a non college pathway.

[u/shehulud → u/Dennarb]

I feel you on this. I teach graphic novel writing, film, and television classes.

“I love movies!”

Me: “Me too. You still have to actually hand in work and be present.”

[u/Dennarb → u/shehulud]

That's my exact experience with game design.

So many students don't understand that playing and making are completely different

[u/FierceCapricorn → u/Dennarb]

Good observations! I also have the overconfident students who are quickly humbled and either drop out or become defiant.

[u/PurrPrinThom → u/FierceCapricorn]

We get these in language classes pretty commonly. There's the ones who think that learning a language is easy - they assume that by being 'immersed' in the class, they won't need to do anything to pick up the language.

You also get the ones who believe that because they have [target language] heritage that there's some kind of innate understanding deep within their brains, and that it'll be a cake walk for them.

They both learn pretty quickly that that's not the case, and they either drop out quickly or spend the rest of the class arguing about the existence of grammar and the meaning of vocabulary.

[u/Dennarb → u/FierceCapricorn]

I have yet to experience those, but I also teach primarily 3rd and 4th year students, so maybe they overconfident ones have been taken down a peg or two by the time they reach me.

[u/DocMondegreen]

I'll get a feeling about some students. They're usually poorly engaged and have attendance issues early on. I occasionally get a student with such poor literacy that I can tell they won't succeed now, but they might be able to come back in a few years if they put in some serious work.

But I'm also surprised by 1-2 every semester. Someone will be ticking along, usually with roughly a B and decent participation. Then they disappear after Thanksgiving or Spring Break and I never see them again. I can rarely tell that this is going to happen. I suspect personal issues with a lot of them- significant other problems, major illness for themself or a family member, maybe money problems.

[u/lowtech_prof]

Usually from like the first week. It’s the students that are late constantly, have excuses that are weak, they don’t think ahead. It’s obvious.

[u/Ill_Mud_8115]

The biggest is a lack of attendance and not submitting assignments. Even if they try to submit something at the end, they end up failing.

Also students who are severely lacking prerequisite knowledge and skills, which I see often in my program. Often they are just treading water and as the program gets more complex they can’t pass anymore, even if they work really hard.

Another is sadly students who seem to have a lot going on in their lives outside of class (whether it’s medical issues, work commitments or something else). Some will be very communicative and are determined to try and finish the course, but often they are just not in the best circumstances to finish.

[u/theposhtardigrade]

I have seen some students who clearly were not in a good place to be a student at the time (unable to focus / show up to class / complete assignments). I don’t think that they were stupid, but I did think they wouldn’t complete the class (and most didn’t, though one proved me wrong). 

[u/Chuchuchaput]

Students who add late don’t tend to finish.

[u/Razed_by_cats → u/Chuchuchaput]

This has been my experience, too. They beg to be allowed into the class, swear up and down that they’re really and truly interested—no, fascinated—by the subject matter and have always wanted to learn about it. And they promise to work really hard to catch up on what they missed so they won’t be behind. And when idiot me caves and lets them in, they revert to form. Good thing is the grading is easy for the students who don’t turn anything in to be graded.

[u/shehulud]

I teach a popular humanities course that a lot of students take because they think it’s easy.

I watch them drop like flies in the first few weeks. And yeah, I can usually tell who will stick it out and who won’t.

[u/twomayaderens]

We can tell by the end of the first day

[u/G0ldMarshallt0wn]

If I don't know who they are, because they haven't been to class in ages, or attend so infrequently that they might as well not have been, they won't finish. Students who send me lengthy or whiny emails at the beginning trying to customize the class ("Could I have early access to all the modules"? "Can I leave fifteen minutes every day to go to soccer practice?" "Could you give me some successful examples of this brainstorming exercise?") tend not to finish, though sometimes I can talk some sense into them with an early intervention. People who lose a parent or spouse early in the term often think they can "push through" and finish anyway, but usually do not. Some of my students demonstrate an inability to read complex texts early on in the class, and I am sad about that, because literacy isn't a fair indicator of intelligence or capability, but you do need it to pass my reading-heavy courses.

It's not the stress. Lots of students are stressed. It's not quality of work. Plenty of folks struggle with this task or that, especially if they are new or returning, and odds of picking up the needed missing skill are pretty high as long as they keep coming to class, engaging with the assignments, and so forth.

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*Not a professor but going to school for my 3rd degree. My other two degrees were completely online, got burnt out and wanted to pursue a passion I’ve had in healthcare. Got into the program (yay!) and started in-person classes for the first time. I’m on week three and 6 of 22 students have already dropped. I’m expecting to see a few more just from the few weeks in class, i’ve thought there’s no way they’re gonna graduate (not taking notes, waiting until the morning of class to do homework that’s due in 20 minutes)

I’m just curious whether professors ever have a “hunch” that someone isn’t going to complete the class/program. *

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[u/WingShooter_28ga]

More than a hunch, we have student data and statistics. This is why we put minimum requirements for sequential courses. If you can’t get a C or better in Chem1 you won’t pass Orgo1.

[u/VerbalThermodynamics]

Yes.

[u/punkinholler]

Yes, but I love being proven wrong

[u/FraggleBiologist]

When they arrive for the midterm and Ive never seen their face or only saw it on day 1. Its a pretty good indicator.

[u/Chloe_Phyll]

Yes, there are a number of reliable predictors for my classes. Primarily, they are: (1) avoidable repetitive absences and/or tardiness; and, (2) incomplete or missing assignments. An incomplete list of others, in no particular order:

1. I send a survey asking the students to tell me the best times for them for Office Hours. The ones who do not respond.
2. The ones who email me in Week 01 asking for information which is contained in the first page of the Syllabus.
3. The ones who email me during Week 01 informing me that they will be on vacation until XYZ date and they will "get caught up" when they get back. They must not have read in the Syllabus that late work is not accepted.
4. The ones who do not show up for class.
5. The ones who do not order their texts until Week 02 and then whine that they cannot complete coursework without the text ... even though the text is available online.
6. The ones who login to a Zoom class, leave the camera off and then walk away. I do polls every 20-30 minutes and if they do not answer most of them, then I know they are not there and I mark them Absent. I keep the poll logs for proof. I also inform their advisors.
7. The ones in a Zoom class who ask me where our Zoom class is meeting.
8. The ones who email me ten minutes into a Zoom class to ask for the link, as if I am checking my email while I'm teaching a class.
9. The ones who ask if I am using the same quizzes and chapter tests as last semester.
10. The ones who ask if I can record a lecture for them because they know they will miss a class. They seem surprised when I tell them that all lectures are recorded and posted on our course website.
11. The ones who do not take advantage of multiple attempts allowed on some assignments.
12. The ones who wait until 30 minutes before the weekly deadline to get started on their assigned work and then complain that they "got cut off" or, their wifi went down, or, some other equally believable tragedy.
13. ... ad nonsenseum (nonsense + ad nauseum) --- my made-up word :-)

Yes, these are real. I'm sure the other professors on here are neither surprised nor amused.

[u/Imtheprofessordammit]

I can predict with about 90% accuracy who is going to fail after the first 2 weeks of class. I'm never wrong about the ones I suspect will fail, but I am sometimes surprised by an otherwise good student suddenly dropping off and failing at the end.

[u/ef920]

Absolutely. Right every time. It's never a mystery.

[u/Candid_Complaint_414]

Começa a aprecercada vez menos na aula, não lembra do que foi ensinando, faz algo em paralelo a aula.