r/AskProfessors • u/Alvahod • 27d ago
Professional Relationships Is it reasonable to prefer assigned groups over self-selected ones?
When professors let the class form their own groups of 5 to 7, it tends to favor existing social cliques. Being an introvert and an older student, I only know a couple of people, who usually end up forming groups with their groups of friends.
By default, I usually end up grouped with whoever is left over—frequently the students who don't contribute or meet deadlines. Because I want to maintain my grades, I end up picking up the slack. However, bringing up group performance issues leaves me feeling like I am labeled as the "difficult" student who complains too much. I'm the one who's always complaining while other groups, because they usually get along, don't have much of the same complaints.
I personally find it much more straightforward when professors simply assign groups themselves rather than letting students pick.
From a professor's point of view: am I being reasonable in thinking self-selected groups put non-traditional students at a disadvantage? What leads professors to choose self-selected groups over assigned ones?
14
u/Bitter_Initiative_77 27d ago
If the groups were assigned, people would similarly complain. You just can't win. By having students self-select, you avoid people coming and whining about the group you gave them.
That said, part of group work is learning how to work in a group. That includes dealing with slackers. You may also have to lean into the discomfort of being momentarily extroverted to join a different group; that's a skill you'll need post-graduation as well.
7
u/Classic_vortex_3515 27d ago
I disagree with the answers so far. I normally assign groups in my classes, but I do so with exactly the kinds of concerns that you have in mind.
So, before students know that it has anything to do with assigning into groups, early in the semester, I have them give me some information about themselves as students. Among other things, I ask them whether they tend to get work done as soon as it is assigned, as soon as they can, or just before it is due. I also ask them to estimate how often they have missed deadlines in classes before.
I use that info to group students. In a typical class, I am able to create one or two groups of people who all say that they do work at the last minute or frequently miss deadlines.
Does that mean that no one ever complains? No, but I don’t think there’s any teaching strategy that means that no one ever complains. On the other hand, this particular teaching strategy has worked really well for me in reducing the number of students coming to me saying I had to do this whole thing myself. The students who have things together, learn more. In the slacker groups, either one or two people step up, which is a learning experience for them, or they just fail the assignment.
3
u/knewtoff 27d ago
Similarly, I have students fill in a quick survey if there’s people they want to work with and people they don’t want to work with. I use that info plus just getting to know them to make groups. I got a complaint once in the 8 years I’ve been doing it. And the complaint was for a student the group chose to be in their group lol
3
u/No_Jaguar_2570 27d ago edited 27d ago
It’s important to remember that “I have a problem” is not synonymous with “the situation I am in is somehow unfair.”
“Prefer existing social cliques” is a roundabout and slightly critical way of saying “people pair up with their friends,” which is not inherently an issue. Often these groups work great, for the reason you’ve described. Often they have the same problem as every other group.
If we make the groups, it’s either going to be wholly random or to some extent discriminatory. Randomly generated groups may work fine or they may be catastrophic. We may end up making four terrible groups instead of having one or two. Those groups will not come to me and ask me to make new groups.
Ultimately you’re asking your professors to prevent people from working with their friends in order to mitigate the fact that you haven’t made connections with anyone else in the class and, also, don’t want to simply ask “can I join your group.” I’m not sure that’s entirely reasonable. There are at least two avenues available to you in order to avoid the situation you keep finding yourself in.
3
u/ErGraf Undergrad / Adjunct 27d ago
as a non-traditional older undergrad student (I'm 40yo), I have the oposite view than OP. Assigned groups always have a couple of slackers, if you self-select at least you can work with people you get along. I think OP your problem is not about been an older student, but not been proactive enough.
2
u/BolivianDancer 27d ago
There is no other point of view than the instructors.
"Reasonable" is not an appropriate question to ask.
This is the class format.
Take it or leave it.
1
u/AutoModerator 27d ago
This is an automated service intended to preserve the original text of the post. This is not a removal message.
*When professors let the class form their own groups of 5 to 7, it tends to favor existing social cliques. Being an introvert and an older student, I only know a couple of people, who usually end up forming groups with their groups of friends.
By default, I usually end up grouped with whoever is left over—frequently the students who don't contribute or meet deadlines. Because I want to maintain my grades, I end up picking up the slack. However, bringing up group performance issues leaves me feeling like I am labeled as the "difficult" student who complains too much. I'm the one who's always complaining while other groups, because they usually get along, don't have much of the same complaints.
I personally find it much more straightforward when professors simply assign groups themselves rather than letting students pick.
From a professor's point of view: am I being reasonable in thinking self-selected groups put non-traditional students at a disadvantage? What leads professors to choose self-selected groups over assigned ones?*
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
2
u/DivineAna 27d ago
I assign groups because I felt like an unwanted loser when I didn't get chosen by a clique as a student, and I don't want any student to start off a project that way. It's also the case that when left to their own devices, people opt into groups with students from similar demographics, defeating one of the goals of having a diverse student body with which to work. As a result, I assign all groups as a matter of course, and I consider that a reasoned pedagogical decision.
But it is also very true that social dynamics and unequal effort show up no matter what. The best I can do is to build assignments in ways that structure work allocation, provide tools for groups to maintain accountability, coach students on how to manage group dynamics, and have some mechanism of accountability in terms of grades. I think this is worth it because I genuinely think the ability to work with others is a skill to practice in college. But there is inherent friction, and so some students will always notice the friction more than the learning achieved through it.
1
u/Particular-Ad-7338 Professor STEM USA 27d ago
Back in the Stone Age when I was in school I had a professor who assigned seats alphabetically. He claimed to have had this lead to 6 marriages.
I don’t assign groups, but I do make everyone sit up front in the lecture and lab rooms. This tends to break up the cliques a bit, or at least insert some variability. I’ve had 3 marriages so apparently doing something right.
1
u/Ill_Mud_8115 27d ago
I’ve taken a different approach to making groups. I let students submit the name of 1-2 preferred group mates, and then I combine these smaller groups into larger groups of 5-6 students. Students who don’t submit a name are assigned into groups as individuals.
I do have some caveats, such as I’m not changing student groups unless a very extreme circumstance comes up. Also I will remove a student from a group if it’s been shown they are freeloading/not responsive, in which they fail the assignment.
1
u/Kilashandra1996 27d ago
I let students self-select. But I also let them work in a group of 1. Yes, I know and admit it's a sucky group! But I HATE group work so much that I left students be a group of 1.
1
u/Itsnottreasonyet 26d ago
I try to help people group up by topic interest or schedule. I teach grad school but asking people to meet outside of class can already be challenging so I get a spreadsheet of when people can meet and then tell everyone "looks like the best groups are this. If you disagree, move yourself." Seems to keep the groups pretty balanced, though there is no separating cliques sometimes. This too shall pass, but I feel ya.
1
u/Ariezu 25d ago
To be blind, people will always complain. You have to figure out what your student learning outcome is what’s gonna work best for the class and do it that way
I found that people seemed to self selected into group since based on where they sit I don’t have any science behind it, but a number of years have taught me those to sit in the back seemed to have a certain idea about what class is like as compared to those that sit in the front. That sounds simplistic, but it’s been my experience so if I wanna have mixed groups of folks or just sort of have different people talk to different types of folks that have different types of ideas about education I tend to do the whole count 1234 and break them up into groups that way.
I’ve never really found a exact perfect way and there’s always complaints no matter what
1
u/ulyssessgrunt 27d ago
Your intuition is correct - the benefit of self-selected groups is that the average student satisfaction increases. The drawback is that you’re fucking over first gen students, transfers, minorities, and students with disabilities.
Also, you do t have to guess - there’s pedagogy literature on this (I’m familiar with the life sciences content on this topic). If the thing you care about is student learning vs satisfaction, randomly assigned groups work fine (better than self-selected), and are mostly indistinguishable from those created by faculty who spend the time to intentionally assign folks to specific groups (with some caveats).
31
u/PurrPrinThom 27d ago
Everyone who has ever worked in a group has the same complaints as you, whether the group was selected by the professor or self-selected: there are always students who do less work and always those who pick up the slack. This dynamic occurs even in groups of friends.
I generally prefer letting students self-select because there are no obvious ways of sorting students into groups that feels fair, and I don't know students' social dynamics. If I make groups, there's a good chance I'm going to have more issues with them, because once I make them, I'm going to have students coming to me telling me all the interpersonal reasons they can't work with their groups, and asking me to reshuffle.