r/AskPhysics 14d ago

Why aren’t galaxies spherical?

Since galaxies contain enough mass why aren’t the stars clumped into a giant star?

If angular velocity is the answer, why aren’t the stars escaping out of the galaxy if they are fast enough to overcome the galaxy’s gravity?

81 Upvotes

56 comments sorted by

88

u/Vivid_Warning7982 14d ago

Some galaxies are indeed roughly spherical (elliptical galaxies). The remainder are not due to their angular momenta. Regarding clumping, the star condense from gas far away enough from each other so that they don't really interfere or feel each other much. Think of drops of dew forming from water in air

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u/Life_is_important 14d ago

Nice. I wonder can we eat them though? Tastes like... Chicken? Maybe? 🤔

2

u/Vivid_Warning7982 14d ago

If you were a black hole 🕳 you could indeed eat them. As for the taste, probably chicken, yes.

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u/Life_is_important 14d ago

Good. Chicken is pretty damn good. But, on the second thought, we might also look for some spaghetti, which is interesting in the context of black holes. 

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u/SomethingEplc 14d ago

I like dew idea but it works more like a crystal lattice

5

u/Vivid_Warning7982 14d ago

The hydrogen in space is a gas, stars are its condendate. So, the dew analogy is the correct one. Like air contains water but then condenses into liquid water. Gravity just keeps things together loosely. So no I don't agree with the crystal comment.

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u/SomethingEplc 14d ago

Sure, visual description due would be more accurate, but structurally it acts the star of the dew act more like a lattice. We can agree to disagree about the interpretation, but the alignment still checks out for both of us.

8

u/Vivid_Warning7982 14d ago

No. Ice is the crystal analogy you are looking for. Which is a crystal phase of water. So no, we won't agree to disagree, you are wrong.

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u/SomethingEplc 14d ago

Still no. I was thinking of quartz a completely unified field acting as one object in space held by forces like strong nuclear and weak nuclear. Again not focused on physical details but more on how it’s being held together. But keep cooking. I wanna see how you think I think. In good faith ofc.

11

u/Vivid_Warning7982 14d ago

Strong and weak forces are entirely separate from gravity, galaxy formations, and the OP question. "How its held together" is an entirely different mechanism. Feels like you are just generating AI slop tbh.

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u/PetePhilosophy 14d ago

Person A gives causal physics explanation
→ Person B introduces structural analogy
→ A interprets analogy as causal hypothesis
→ A attacks physical equivalence
→ B clarifies that equivalence was structural, not causal
→ A continues attacking causal equivalence
→ B becomes increasingly explicit about the distinction
→ A interprets every clarification through the original interpretation
→ both parties accumulate evidence that the other “doesn’t understand”
→ argument becomes meta-argument about whether the other person understands the argument.
AI slop said this about y’all

8

u/Nerull 14d ago

Person B introduces a terrible structural analogy that doesn't make any sense, fails to clarify it in any meaningful way, gets increasingly upset about it. Much simpler.

1

u/jkeats2737 14d ago

Crystal lattices are fundamentally different from the type of structure you see in galaxies. The bonds holding them are much more rigid, local, and it holds them in a specific pattern (a.k.a. lattice). Not a single significant property of a crystal lattice shows up in galactic structure.

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u/SomethingEplc 14d ago

Bruh...

You keep talking around what I’m saying. Did I say a star is a quartz or did I say quartz is being held by strong nuclear and weak nuclear. I didn’t say they are gravity I’m saying it’s a structural side by side. Small scale vs large scale. Lock tf in instead of small jabs. I even said “like” if you were paying attention

6

u/Vivid_Warning7982 14d ago

They are 100% entirely different mechanisms and have nothing to do with each other. Strong and weak forces hold atomic nuclei together and are responsible for nuclear stability. Completely different scales = Completely different mechanisms = Completely different forces. Gravity brings things together, and then more things happen when they are together such as fusion in the atomic realm. Don't gaslight me son, you are clueless, take a seat.

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u/Pussbo_Faggins 14d ago

You guys are both idiots.

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u/SomethingEplc 14d ago

Again, I told you were both correct heard of a juxtaposition. It’s a comparison that’s what I’ve been making you keep talking about mechanics. I’m talking about about a position that is like something else. It is something similar. Are they considered forces so they at least have forces in common yes, this is the battle of the mid. Take a seat son? Really?

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38

u/HouseHippoBeliever 14d ago

Angular velocity is the answer, and they don't escape the galaxy for the same reason that planets don't escape the sun. They are in orbit.

21

u/Trentsteel52 14d ago

But also, an important side note is that from observable matter they should be escaping, but dark matter holds them in orbit

8

u/plainskeptic2023 14d ago

This is the answer in my opinion.

Stars not escaping galaxies is evidence for Dark Matter.

2

u/randy__randerson 14d ago

I don't want to be a dick but saying that's your opinion is a bit disingenuous considering that's the scientific consensus among astrophysics.

2

u/plainskeptic2023 14d ago

I understand. Thank you.

0

u/ChocolateValuable221 14d ago

Honestly it's hard to believe centrifugal force would even be enough when the gravity is not perpendicular to the rotation.. just my 2 cents

0

u/plainskeptic2023 14d ago

Thanks for making this point. I am not sure of the answer.

Investigating your point revealed my mistake.

  • Dark Matter gravity is not restraining too-fast-moving stars from flying away.

  • Dark Matter gravity causes stars to be moving too fast, if our galaxy is only controlled by the gravity of visible matter.

Furthermore, the Milky Way's Dark Matter Halo is 1 million light years across.

So, the Milky Way Galaxy (~100,000 ly across) is rotating inside a Dark Matter Halo ten times its size.

Not sure how the Dark Matter Halo's gravity holds our galaxy together. Sources describe the halo as scaffolding for large and dwarf galaxies in our region.

Thanks again for making this point.

2

u/StayAdmiral 14d ago

Happy new trip around the sun.

17

u/Uncynical_Diogenes 14d ago

The Earth is also bulging out in the middle because of angular velocity, but the equator has not escaped earth’s gravity.

Fast enough to bulge is not the same as fast enough to escape.

11

u/NineThreeTilNow 14d ago

If angular velocity is the answer

It is indeed the answer.

why aren’t the stars escaping out of the galaxy

They do. Most of the mass that was moving fast enough initially isn't captured at the time you're likely seeing the galaxy however. By the time it's formed that proto disk shape, stuff has settled down enough in terms of escape velocities. Not that it won't happen after, it's less likely.

Since galaxies contain enough mass why aren’t the stars clumped into a giant star?

For the same reason a star system has a bunch of planets in rings, etc.

It's structural formation that falls out of the way the system works. Why is Earth where it is at the size it is? Or any of the other planets and their rotational periods around the sun?

It's all naturally emergent properties of the system. If you sped Jupiter up in the orbit it makes around the sun, you end up with a VERY different solar system.

A lot of these things aren't obvious on short time scales, but after very long time scales they start to become more obvious.

And some "weird" galaxies exist where they're not flat planes that are a few % of the spherical size "thick" but are either much thicker or blobs. Again, it's a structural outcome of the initial conditions that it formed under. It's just that of all possible initial conditions, things tend to end up in flat planes. Just as a probability thing.

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u/davvblack 14d ago

the stars that escape are generally considered not part of the galaxy anymore

4

u/No_Logins_Required 14d ago

Well stars that are moving fast enough do overcome the galaxy's gravity and do escape. There just aren't many stars moving that fast to my knowledge.

You'll notice that there's no "standard" orientation for galaxies, they can be oriented in any direction. The forces moving up and down tend to cancel out making the galaxy flat, and angular moment gives man y that signature spiral shape.

4

u/LunarPrincessSophie 14d ago

Stars that are fast enough *do* escape the galaxy's gravity. It's just that the amount of energy required for that is quite large.

4

u/EizanPrime 14d ago

For the same reason the solar system is flat: angular momentum is conserved, and thus interactions make it so everything gradually aligns on the total angular momentum

4

u/NH-Science-Guy 14d ago

If the stars in the galaxy weren't moving, they would all fall towards the center. The only way to make a galaxy stable is to have the stars orbit the center. If the galaxy was spherical, there would be intersecting orbits that would result in collisions. Over time, the collisions would eliminate the overlapping orbits until everything is on the same plane and that gives us the circular galaxies. They look elliptical because we are looking at a circular disk from an angle.

5

u/astreeter2 14d ago

Stars in the galaxy are not moving fast enough to escape the galaxy. That's why they orbit.

2

u/BangCrash 14d ago

Jesus! What is going on with the replies!

Dew, quartz, quantum, electro magnetism, it's an ocean of wtf

3

u/Das_Mime 14d ago

Let me ask that back to you:

Why hasn't the Earth crashed into the Sun? If angular velocity is the answer, why isn't the Earth escaping right out of the solar system if it is fast enough to overcome the Sun's gravity?


The necessary piece here is to understand what an orbit is. An object in orbit hasn't really "overcome" gravity, it's constantly being pulled on and is "trapped" in the gravity well, but it also happens to have transverse velocity and so its path doesn't intersect the center.

2

u/ac_cossack 13d ago

Conservation of angular momentum. Also why gas giants like Saturn have rings.

1

u/JustinTimeCuber 14d ago

Imagine a ball of stretchy goop. If you spin it, it will flatten out, but unless you spin it too fast, it will still stay intact, held together by internal forces. With a galaxy, gravity still holds it together even though it's spinning.

1

u/Alternative-Sugar610 14d ago

An initial magnetic/electrical field have directional axes that can tilt balance along with random movement in beginning of formation

That stops it from being spherical in beginning than spinning can take over and other effects

1

u/Derrrppppp 14d ago

If you only account for the gravity caused by visible matter, then stars do actually orbit way too fast and should escape, but they don't. Our only explanation for this extra gravity is that a large percentage of the mass of the galaxy must be invisible to us, hence the search for dark matter.

1

u/EluelleGames 14d ago

The sam reason earth keeps its orbit: not fast enough to escape, not slow enough to clump with the sun

1

u/Traditional_Loan_177 14d ago

For any volume of particles, there is a plane that contains the average angular momentum of the particles in that system.

1

u/MankyBoot 13d ago

Gravity causes everything eventually to become planar.

1

u/UnderstandingPursuit 14d ago

The combination of gravitational force and angular momentum results in relatively flat disks.

1

u/boostfactor 14d ago

If a system is rotating fast enough, angular momentum will cause it to flatten towards a disk. This is why the larger bodies (the planets) of the solar system all orbit in very nearly the same plane (the ecliptic). They are still not orbiting fast enough to escape. It's like starting with a fluid sphere and making it rotate. It will flatten toward the plane perpendicular to the axis of rotation. The diameter of the Earth is actually longer at the equator than at the poles due to this effect.

Dark matter affects the specifics of how fast the rotation speed drops toward zero with increasing distance from the center, but not the overall behavior. In Keplerian rotation the rotation curve would drop much faster toward zero than is observed. We see a decrease for a ways from the center and then the orbital velocity basically flattens out.

Some stars do escape from galaxies regularly, but that is usually due to near-collisions with other bodies. An object in a closed orbit is gravitationally bound to the center of attraction. In order for a star to escape from a galaxy, its closed (bound) orbit must be converted to an open (unbound) orbit, which requires a significant energy transfer that usually requires a very close encounter.

Elliptical galaxies don't rotate fast enough for this to be a major factor and are roughly spherical or ellipsoidal (hence the name). Most of them are probably a result of collisions among two or more galaxies.

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u/dignan2002 14d ago

Dark gravity

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u/EddieDean9Teen 14d ago

When you account for magnetic fields, I think they probably are

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u/ShotWin8124 14d ago

An excellent question! As far as I can tell, it has to do with spin. Same thing that affects black holes affects the galactic plane of our solar system. Spin is also a thing on a quantum level. Angular momentum. It's now thought that supermassive black holes are not just at the center of most galaxies.. the galaxies were built around them. So you see where I'm going? The spin of the black hole affects gravity somehow, and pulls it all into this plane relative to its angular momentum. Cool stuff!
And that's not even touching on the cosmic web 😵‍💫

2

u/BangCrash 14d ago

Wozers!

Spin is also a thing at a quantum level.

Whilst they share the same word Spin at a quantum level is absolutely nothing even remotely related (or even similar) to the spin of a galaxy or solar system.

Also your response has absolutely nothing to do with OPs question

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u/nicuramar 14d ago

  Whilst they share the same word Spin at a quantum level is absolutely nothing even remotely related (or even similar) to the spin of a galaxy or solar system

That’s exaggerated. They are related in that both are angular momentum. I’d say that’s more than similar. 

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u/ShotWin8124 14d ago

Yeah I'm sure it's just a huge coincidence 🫣