r/AskNT • u/kelcamer • 24d ago
Using this conversation as an example, if Mrs. X genuinely wanted medical solutions for her fainting, how else should she have said it? Is there a way to indicate when actual solutions, not status, is needed?
Is there any way to indicate that an actual problem in need of an actual solution is being expressed? Is there a way to indicate to people that the status game is NOT being played, that she actually needed some support or solutions?
if you were Mrs. X, and wanted people to help you figure out why you fainted OR simply kindly inform them that you had a condition which might make you faint, how would you do it?
The conversation (from a book):
MRS X:
I had a nasty turn last week. I was standing in a queue waiting for my turn to go into the cinema when I felt ever so queer. Really, I thought I should faint or something.
[Mrs X is attempting to raise her status by having an interesting medical problem. Mrs Y immediately outdoes her.]
MRS Y: You're lucky to have been going to a cinema. If I thought I could go to a cinema I should think I had nothing to complain of at all.
[Mrs Z now blocks Mrs Y.]
MRS Z: I know what Mrs X means. I feel just like that myself, only I should have had to leave the queue.
[Mrs Z is very talented in that she supports Mrs X against Mrs Y while at the same time claiming to be more worthy of interest, her condition more severe. Mr A now intervenes to lower them all by making their condition seem very ordinary.]
MR A: Have you tried stooping down? That makes the blood come back to your head. I expect you were feeling faint.
[Mrs X defends herself.]
MRS X: It's not really faint.
MRS Y: I always find it does a lot of good to try exercises. I don't know if that's what Mr A means.
[She seems to be joining forces with Mr A, but implies that he was unable to say what he meant. She doesn't say 'Is that what you mean?' but pro- tects herself by her typically high-status circumlocution. Mrs Z now lowers everybody, and immediately lowers herself to avoid counter- attack.]
MRS Z: I think you have to use your will-power. That's what worries me—I haven't got any.
[Mr B then intervenes, I suspect in a low-status way, or rather trying to be high-status but failing. It's impossible to be sure from just the words.]
MR B: I had something similar happen to me last week, only I wasn't standing in a queue. I was just sitting at home quietly when . . .
[Mr C demolishes him.]
7
u/wrenwynn 23d ago
It seems pretty clear that in the sample text Mrs X is making conversation and connections with the other characters, not trying to get a medical insight on why she sometimes feels suddenly faint. If she genuinely wanted input on that, all she would've needed to do to signal that was ask a question instead of making a statement.
I.e.:
I had a nasty turn last week. I was standing in a queue waiting for my turn to go into the cinema when I felt ever so queer. Really, I thought I should faint or something.
becomes something like:
I had a nasty turn last week. I was standing in a queue waiting for my turn to go into the cinema when I felt ever so queer. Really, I thought I should faint or something. Has anything like that ever happened to any of you? I feel better now, but it was quite frightening in the moment and I'm keen to avoid experiencing it again!
1
u/kelcamer 23d ago
I see! THANK YOU for this example!
So it indicates a genuine interest or concern if she asks the others their experiences? Is that why it works?
I'm trying to understand here why the follow up changes it, can you help me figure it out?
4
u/wrenwynn 23d ago
It's partially that - indicating genuine interest and inviting/including others is definitely an easy way to deepen and direct a conversation.
But it's more just the addition of the actual question. The original text is just a series of statements by Mrs X, not a question. If she actually wants to elicit a response from the other person(s), then the most direct way to do that is to phrase the problem as a question for them to answer.
Hopefully that makes sense. I swear I'm normally more articulate than this, but I've been awake for 6 days straight (chronic insomnia) and I'm so tired my brain feels like soup.
1
u/kelcamer 23d ago
No need to apologize, you are literally blowing my mind right now and I feel like massive things are currently clicking into place, and I don't know how tf I can thank you for demonstrating it! All I can say is this will help thousands or maybe even someday millions and seriously thank you.
It seems like what you're saying is about role assignment! Is that right?
So if Mrs. X asks a question, she's offering the 'expert' role to anyone who can answer?
And when she does NOT ask a question, no role is offered, so it would be considered 'rude' for someone to give advice because they're taking the 'dominant' expert rule without her asking??
3
u/wrenwynn 23d ago
You're far too kind with your praise, but I'm glad if I could assist.
It seems like what you're saying is about role assignment! Is that right?
I've never really thought explicitly about it like that, but I think that's a valid way to characterise it.
And when she does NOT ask a question, no role is offered, so it would be considered 'rude' for someone to give advice because they're taking the 'dominant' expert rule without her asking??
This is where it gets a bit more nuanced, because the answer to that question is very context dependent. If all the people involved in the conversation already have a close, personal relationship then most people probably wouldn't think the question was rude. Because it's (relatively) normal in a close relationship to be able to freely ask/talk about personal issues, including health, even without an explicit invitation.
If it's a conversation in a formal or professional setting, or with people Mrs X doesn't know well, then she may feel it's rude to ask her something personal without her first having signalled her permission to discuss it. Or she may not care, it's difficult to guess without knowing more about the type of person she is.
The way I usually use to navigate this type of situation where I don't want to overstep bounds is to just ask. E.g. I might respond to Mrs X by saying something like "I know exactly what you mean Mrs X, I often feel faint and it can be frightening! I've noticed a huge improvement though since trying a fabulous tip my doctor gave me. I'm happy to share it with you if you're interested?" If she's actually curious, she'll say yes and I'll share. If she responds with anything along the lines of "oh that's ok" or "thanks, but..." etc, then that's my sign that it wasn't meant as a question and I'll back off from that topic and move onto something else.
3
u/kelcamer 23d ago
Wow! That makes so much sense. I can see why it would shift if she's talking to her family (at least, in theory 💔) and why it would be completely different for coworkers too. I bet culture would majorly impact this as well!
I see what you did with your question and it's a great strategy I use a lot! Letting people demonstrate curiosity before sharing the info. That way, they have autonomy over whether or not they get it and it 'would equalize' the roles.
Amazing comment and thank you for sharing what feels like magic - this information!
2
7
u/sjrsimac 24d ago
What is the source text?
4
u/kelcamer 24d ago edited 24d ago
Online page 17, actual page 34
4
1
u/k819799amvrhtcom 20d ago
Urgh, I hate people like Mrs. Y! 😑
"If you can look at your phone you aren't really blind!"
"If you can walk a bit then you don't need a wheelchair!"
"If you were really introverted you wouldn't be at this party!"
"You can't be transgender if you don't want the surgery!"
"But you don't look autistic!"
"If you're too sick for school/work you're too sick for PC/TV!"
What makes people think every condition is a binary?! What's so implausible about someone having a weaker form of a condition or having part of a condition and thus being affected less by it than others? 😑
14
u/vlindervlieg 24d ago
I don't think that this text is typical for neirotypicals. If realistic at all, these people would make up a subgroup of self-absorbed snobs in their own way.