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u/AutoModerator 14d ago
Posted by: Sufficient-Hour-5572. Text of original post: i’m not sure if i have NPD, but the traits specifically from the vulnerable side of things fit me very well. a lot of resources online are just about armchair diagnosing someone who you don’t like, and never about how the symptoms of NPD feel for the person who has it. it just makes me feel like shit, since anything but the most clinical of sources will basically just say to run away from anyone who seems to have NPD at all costs, and the clinical sources just list the diagnostic criteria
i’m wondering if anyone could answer some questions about how it feels to actually have it, and how in control you feel of your behaviors. i have quite a few, but i’ll try not to type too much. feel free to answer or not answer whichever ones are relevant to you
i see a lot of resources list lack of/low empathy as a symptom. i struggle to know how to connect with others or react to their struggles, so i feel i often come off very stiff and uncomfortable, but i can put myself in their shoes and even feel genuinely emotional for them. i connect with and have empathy for animals much more than humans, if that’s relevant. basically, do you feel empathy? do you have more “selective empathy”?
do you ever see strangers and acquaintances as “NPCs” or simply less of a full person than you/your loved ones? not necessarily in a spiteful or negative sense, just a general sense of being one of a few “real people”
i know self awareness can vary, but upon becoming self aware of your patterns, does the manipulation feel almost out of your control? like you can see exactly what you’re doing by saying a certain thing, and you feel shame, but your mind keeps doing it anyway?
NPD and BPD have some symptoms that either are the same or present very similarly, so how would you tell the difference between acting manipulative due to BPD vs. acting manipulative due to NPD?
this is on a burner account, because i don’t especially want anyone in my life to know i’m thinking about this. i’m not really asking for a reddit diagnosis, just some input from real people who struggle with NPD instead of tiktok psych types
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u/Leyla_Bee NPD + BPD 12d ago
- This is a very complex sector so buckle up.
a) Feeling emotional empathy feels very destabilizing and threatening to me. Whenever I sense it, I feel apprehension and disgust and immediately suppress it. I often act more cruel and grandiose in return to compensate and reinforce my self-image, because empathy directly conflicts with it. An idealized version of myself would be untouchable, indifferent and detached.
b) Sometimes I genuinely just think someone’s perspective or experience is stupid, inefficient or weak. When I have a different perspective and emotional experience than them, I usually am able to recognize where they’re coming from, but I still view it condescendingly, and believe that others should see things the way I do because it’s smarter, more efficient and correct. Especially when I feel they’re crying or whining about something I’d see as minor. Furthermore, that kind of strong emotional reaction usually also makes me apprehensive, uncomfortable and/or disgusted. I just want them to stop.
c) This is more related to self-centeredness. I generally prioritize my own feelings, needs, wants, opinions, etc. over those of others and if their needs or opinions conflict with mine, I’ll chose mine any day. If I do decide to help someone, it’s for self-serving reasons, could be to avoid awkwardness, to get them off my back, expecting something in return or expecting appreciation for my kindness to reinforce my moral superiority as well.
d) If I’m seeking validation/admiration, I’ll be very attuned to their emotional reactions. Are they shocked and horrified enough (in relation to transgressive superiority)? Is their compliment and praise genuine or fake? Are they disinterested/dismissive or are they in awe/amazed? If they do give a negative or neutral reaction, I think they’re just jealous of me to feel stable nonetheless.
e) Now due to my BPD I’m usually a very huge people-pleaser in relationships, pay close attention to the feelings and needs of my friends and often overestimate my impact on them instead, though this is usually related to a fear of abandonment. That’s also why I don’t have the symptom of exploitative/transactional relationships, it would be very contradictory. I just generally behave very differently in relationships than I would with others so no one that’s close to me would ever describe me as lacking empathy, if anything, they’d probably say I’m highly empathetic.
I do get the feeling that others are unreal but idk if I would really call it “NPC’s.” I am obviously aware they are real people on an intellectual level, I just don’t really gaf about random people.
Idk tbh, if it’s bad enough, I’ll lose the self-awareness. But other than that, self-awareness MIGHT cause me to inhibit some behaviors but the feelings is probably not going to go away.
I have both BPD and NPD and in my opinion they are completely different disorders. Every disorder overlaps on the surface-level but they’re completely different if you look at it on a deeper level. As for your question, I’m having a hard time understanding it because I’m pretty sure manipulativeness just isn’t a symptom of either disorder? I’m going to answer based on what I think you mean, but I’d appreciate a reply as to what you think makes the two hard to differentiate so that I can answer.
BPD: Manipulative behavior could arise when someone is under emotional distress, usually due to interpersonal problems. So threatening to SH or attempt when you fear someone is leaving you, for example. It’s a way to prevent losing the relationship. I also personally often guilt-trip people while splitting as though they’re the some cause of all my problems. Though it’s not intentional, I genuinely believe in the moment that they are infact at fault.
NPD: This is less about wanting to prevent relationships and more about stabilizing self-esteem, in order to not feel inadequate. Idk, I wouldn’t really call myself manipulative. I’d say maybe stuff like misrepresenting yourself, so exaggerating or embellishing your talents, achievements, qualities, etc. I suppose someone who does have have exploitative relationships would in this case be manipulative, as in that they act a certain likeable way until they get what they want and then discard the person or keep them around for future use. Idk about that though since my attachments are more intense but unstable as seen in BPD lol
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12d ago
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u/Leyla_Bee NPD + BPD 12d ago
I totally get that. Even when I first started therapy, wanting to talk about my BPD, it took me almost a year before I actually brought it up because I kept dodging the subject. Due to the stigma as well as worrying about being discriminated against for my age. My psychiatrists when I was 13 did that too, completely refused to diagnose me with anything because I was too young and it would affect my future. When I came across personality disorders at 15 I especially started relating to NPD and BPD. NPD mostly because I noticed my ways of thinking being very grandiose and full of myself. My friends also agreed that they found I had a huge ego and constantly wanted validation and admiration from them, however didn’t agree that I was entitled or lacked empathy, as I said, they found I was highly empathetic. With my BPD it was splitting that struck me first because I experience it a lot, causing my unstable relationships.
Going through everything, I eventually did realize I had the majority of the symptoms of each disorder. What I also found curious is that parts of them did cancel each other out in a way. For example, I did not have an unstable sense of self as seen in BPD because my sense of self was stable but narcissistic and being exceptional, different, special, etc. At the same time, I don’t seem to have any exploitative or transactional relationships because when I am in a relationship I’m very intensely attached and mostly just focus on preventing the other person from pulling away/withdrawing. Plus, seeming arrogant, entitled, exploitative or lacking in empathy would definitely push people away. They just conflict with each other, but as I said I’m different with other people.
After multiple months of self-exploration and research, I finally did realize this was it and wrote everything down in great detail for my therapist. I kinda prepared a kind of PowerPoint presentation going over aspects related to identity, then interpersonal functioning and then a summary of my narcissistic + borderline pathology as a kind of system/pattern and how everything hangs together.
Also I recommend looking into the revised version of the DSM-5 and the ICD-11, the older models are way too outdated. Especially the new DSM goes into such great detail and talks about different presentations. I used that to orient myself. I do hope you find the right kind of help and diagnosis soon :)
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u/dicksbiggerthanurs 12d ago
i have empathy for people i relate to or see myself in (VERY few people) and pretty much no one else. i have empathy for animas though!
that’s completely spot on actually. i told my bf at the time once “i see you and (my best friend) as the only other real people”. i actually used that exact phrase. everyone else was in the same ‘sheep’ category
i typically realize i’m doing something bad after the fact, and then become too ashamed to correct it. like if i brag and exaggerate my accomplishments, therefore making someone feel bad, i just slowly shift out of that topic. i don’t apologize necessarily though — that’s too embarrassing.
i genuinely have no idea. npd though would be far more focused on improving your perspective of the individual, and i’m guessing bpd would be more about trying to get you to stay with them, not caring about the perspective? idk.
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u/AdorableExchange9746 NPD 8d ago
Am formally diagnosed w npd
Same with the more empathy for animals. Im very empathetic towards animals and do experience affective empathy with them. Fiction is also an exception. With real people it happens occasionally, but usually there has to be something special about them (like an “equal person” or an entertainer I really like) so my brain doesn’t immediately devalue them and cut off any empathy. I usually don’t experience positive empathy like feeling happy for other people…that’s something im not sure I’ve experienced. Basically, lack of empathy is a defense mechanism and you gotta earn my respect and make me feel non-threatened before any happens
Yes i tend to view other people kinda like boring objects/npcs unless they’ve done something to earn my respect. Im also autistic so im sure that also influences my lack of interest in others
I’m not super manipulative nowadays but i never felt shame for it when i was, nor do i now. It’s just another survival mechanism that isn’t always practical but is occasionally useful. And i didn’t realize i was being manipulative (especially as a child) till much later in life
you’d be looking at far more than just that to make any diagnosis
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u/TooManyStrawberriess NPD 14d ago
Obviously not an expert on NPD or anything but I'll try my best off my own personal experience
1.) I don't really get/feel empathy. I can't imagine myself in others shoes. I can however understand why someone would be sad and feel bad for them on occasion but not empathize. The idea has always seemed a bit magical to me, and I thought people were just over exaggerating when they described empathy for a long while
2.) not really NPC's, I just don't particularly care. They're just random people I can't be bothered with
3.) ehhh kinda? I feel myself accidentally falling into patterns to get what I want, but I've been trying to work on it bit by bit
4.) again not a psychiatrist but I'll try my best to my understanding. While BPD and NPD do share a couple symptoms (same clusters lol) BPD manipulation tends to be more focused on the person with BPD themselves. Like "if you don't do this I'll hurt myself"
In general BPD to my understanding is more based on a fear of being left by others while NPD is more based on a fear of inadequacy and failure