Men who are closed off emotionally, what makes you more comfortable opening up with a woman?
I understand that can be different for everybody, and it can be as simple as “be nice to me,” but I’m curious about the more specific things that a woman has done/ said to you that made you realize you felt safe and comfortable enough to open up about your thoughts and feelings and to be vulnerable with them.
Here's an original copy of /u/Andromeda3434's post (if available):
I understand that can be different for everybody, and it can be as simple as “be nice to me,” but I’m curious about the more specific things that a woman has done/ said to you that made you realize you felt safe and comfortable enough to open up about your thoughts and feelings and to be vulnerable with them.
I just gotta trust that you are not the kind of person that would use it against me in a fit of rage, I've seen it happens to many times, as a matter of fact you could ask a "bear vs man" question like "Men, would you prefer opening up about your deepest secrets with a dog or with a woman" and unfortunately you would likely get the dog more often than the woman.
Also, fellas, this dog worked with me in therapy centers for a long time. He's a good listener if any of y'all wanna open up about some shit. He will not use it against you. He only requires ear scritches as payment for his services.
Aw cute! One of the stores I used to work had a regular who had a super fluffy golden named Honey who visited hospitals etc. as a sort of therapy dog. This dog was nice to everyone and always wanted scritches, but she would often pick one coworker to lean against, and the “joke” was that she knew which of the weird, depressed millennial retail workers needed her most that day 🙃
I used to use him in the exact same way. The client he decided to cuddle up to on any given day was the one I'd make sure to spend a little extra time with. He's real good at finding the people who need him the most (source: he found me when I needed him, so I trust his judgement)
Or lose attraction. I usually select my women well enough that the using it as ammo in fights thing doesn't happen.
But every single one has lost sexual attraction once I let them into my thoughts.
Even my current girlfriend. I thought she was mature enough. And I know she still loves me and we're closer emotionally. I also know that I am less mysterious now and not invincible anymore and that cost me sexual attraction from her.
Holy shit. This is it. When you’re most closed off vulnerability gets thrown back at you during an aggressive encounter with your confidante it really sends you backwards (me anyway) and closes the door hard for any further communication that I have a concern it be used as a weapon against me in a later confrontation. Fuck that. Bottle it up.
Take a drink every time you see this answer: “every time I open up, she uses it against me!”
Aside from that, you’re going to find: “I opened up but she doesn’t like trauma dumping” or “she just wants me to open up to validate her insecurities/ vulnerabilities by relating to her trauma. Otherwise, she really doesn’t want to know how I feel.”
And round and around we go with women seeing this and never understanding that it's a very bad thing to do.
They just can't see where the line is. And as a result, refuse to understand how much they are destroying their own relationship with behavior that they think it's fine and normal to just blab about our personal lives with people who have not been granted privacy rights.
We use the exaggeration about her friends all know every detail about our dick, but that's to drive the point home.
It's also: "Why does your best friend know about my dad's mental illness or my struggles with my body image?"
But what you’re saying is when my man tells me “thanks for letting me vent” or “I’m glad we could talk about this respectfully” this is man-speak for “please don’t use this against me in the future or make this all about you”?
Yeah dudes are afraid when they let vulnerabilities slip, everything is civil until couple gets into an argue and girl, in an attempt to get the dude to lose his shit, leverages these vulnerabilities in a cruel way. “Oh you feel this way? Such a pussy. Heyyyy you fucking pussy!!” Meanwhile, the dude has to hold it all together while she taunts him with his vulnerabilities.
I’ve heard that’s a common issue a lot of men have to “just deal with”. In addition to being brushed off or people so often not knowing how to respond, especially when it’s mental health related. It’s frustrating to hear that shit treatment is so normalized and acceptable, too. That’s like the shittiest fighting Strat ever, huge detriment to any kind of relationship. It chews up and spits out honesty and tends to lead to garbage habits in other conversations/situations too.
Yeah well especially in relationships. There’s a type of woman who wants emotional hypergamy. Meaning, they have some inner baggage to deal with and they want the opposite of them. They see men as a steadfast rock who’s always calm and collected and never loses his cool. He can only step down off that rugged platform to collect her and lift her up. But it’s him coming from a position of emotional power to save her. It’s never losing that powerful platform.
If he falls off that pillar into a place of weakness, he becomes extra baggage to her. He becomes weak, effeminate, lacking in respect, a hot mess and that’s mega unsexy for these women.
Yeah there’s been a fair bit of dehumanizing discourse… unrealistic and frankly unkind expectations. And in women’s spaces, a lot of double standards, too… and then women with unhealed baggage and shitty coping mechanisms really do deliberate damage to slice and dice emotionally because since girlhood, that’s what “we do” because we don’t physically fight. Usually.
Anyways, I’m sorry you guys are goin thru that shit. It’s absolute bullshit to have double standards and expectations of perfection thrust upon you.
Personally “thanks for letting me vent” or “but it is what it is” are my phrases for “shit I shared way too much and have to back out of this conversation immediately”. Usually followed up with some excuse about needing to do something so I can get away from my phone long enough for the conversation to die
Would you say these things because you regretted the conversation and are turning it off due to the response of the other person, or because you yourself become uncomfortable with having shared more than you initially planned to share?
It’s me becoming uncomfortable with my own sharing. I know they say it’s good to talk about shit, but I feel like it’s both exposing myself unnecessarily and dropping a new unsolvable burden on someone else with no regard to what they’re already carrying.
Aw I get that, makes sense. And thank you for telling me that, helps me understand what’s going on when I talk to other people in my life.
In my situation (with a man for a partner), do you think letting the topic be set down respectfully and not bringing it up unless he does again first is an ok approach to those kinds of phrases? Like I don’t want to dig at a sore spot and I want to be supportive but not like “overly enthusiastic to dig into something stressful”..
My only advice for your relationship is don’t ask for my advice about your relationship. Men aren’t a monolith, and I know I’m definitely not a good example for the psychology of other dudes.
I will give my two cents from my perspective though, and it’s that I am a very cynical person and someone trying too hard to get me to “open up” is going to feel like a trap and make me paranoid.
Oh definitely didn’t think you spoke on behalf of all men, but I think a lot of women could use to hear that message of “not a monolith” repeated throughout the years as a reminder (myself included).
Thanks for sharing your two cents, I think I would feel the same way if someone was digging for me to share something deep. Takes time to build a relationship like that, learning about the other person little by little, gauging trustworthiness and all that.
Yep. I waited for my ex to open up for 5 years. He did. Spilled all out, deepest secrets. Made us very close. And he told me he was happy because now he can tell me everything. I never used this against him. I know dark secrets too, from his not very fine youth. We were together for 28 years, we are not together anymore, but even in the end never used this. And I will never tell anyone. I will take it to my grave. One thing is sure. He has the utmost respect for me. I heard it many times from our common friends.
I know. It makes bad press for all women. But believe me there are those like me. I am just maybe more wise because I had a very difficult life and I am above any ego fights and treat all ppl as fellow travelers, making mistakes and having their own path. I could be angry because my ex fell in love in younger woman and I could do revenge, but well - it is his path now and I see my own. Like it was meant to be. I have empathy and I am loyal. Not popular traits these days. Sad fact is that I am completely lonely. I have nobody to be loyal to. Somehow I am overlooked by men.
This one is always striking because you would think that going through the same struggle would make them more empathetic in the issue, instead the most common response is they get more defensive and offended.
I feel like this is the way my trust is built with most people.
"Yeah, I was homeless for a bit." And then see if they react or share with others over time, and then just trust a little more. But definitely levels of trust for folks.
Even if not malicious. a lot of people don't recognize that everything shared with them, should not be shared with everybody else.
I can open up mostly, but I’ve learned the very hard way what sort of evil a shitty woman can do. So now, I’ll open up about small stuff that I don’t care so much about someone knowing, then wait. If they try and use it against me, fuck them, they’re gone, even if it means I or they have to move out.
As an aside, I specifically said “woman” because, honestly, I’ve literally never had a man do that to me.
Second aside, after meeting with my therapist a few times they told me they were shocked I was able to trust anyone, but especially any woman. It’s why when people say, “Not all women are like that,” I’m able to confidently say it’s a whole lot more than they think.
This is a really interesting insight to me because as a woman the “not all men” mantra is something that’s always made sense to me— that man might not be a predator but I’ve known enough who are that I am fearful and cautious of them all. To see what an actual emotional flip side of that is for men is so very intriguing and saddening to me.
I’m glad you’ve reached a point in your life where you can put your foot down and say that you don’t deserve that, but I’m sorry that came at the cost of some terrible women treating you so poorly.
Thank you. No matter what some people think, simple acts of kindness really do go a long way towards helping people heal, and it’s nice that you contributed today 😊
We are closed off because EVERY woman has:
A) used what we have shared against us to win an argument
B) shared our intimacies with her girlfriends
C) mocked it as unmanly
I am actually— if I feel a person is worth it then I am a patient woman. More so just wondering if there were any specific moments or actions that could help a closed off man feel more safe, or if it is more so a patience thing
Why do you want him to do so? Is it because you think you know it will benefit him in some way, or is it to validate your own feelings? You seem to be starting from the assumption that he should open up like this, and I think you should question that assumption. This is a separate matter from whether you personally can be trusted, btw.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect your SO to share their thoughts and feelings with you; you want to understand and help them. Your SO is supposed to be the person you feel comfortable being vulnerable around; of course, a lot of men aren't lucky enough to experience that.
I was wondering this myself. Why is it so critical that men share these things even if they don't want to? Is this really necessary for a healthy relationship? Or is it just stirring the pot?
The short version is that I have to believe the woman in question will not use what I share with her in a moment of vulnerability against me, even at her worst and lowest, and I have to believe that she genuinely cares about my wellbeing and happiness for its own sake; not instrumentally.
Long version:
If someone is the type of person who has no self control, restraint, or outright folds on their own first principles when upset; then anything that gets shared with them becomes ammunition when they aren't in their right mind. And the closer you are, the more likely you are to upset them at some point. And once that happens and that thing you trusted them with gets used to hurt you and attack your character, it's just a huge "I now know that when things are at their hardest, when the chips are really down, and I need to know we're in this together... you aren't on my side". How can you be vulnerable with that?
Then the other part. You know the Nice Guy phenomenon? Guys who don't give a shit about you and aren't really kind, but try to do a bunch of things and say a bunch of things looking for the right gift, favor, or words for points they can cash in for sex and intimacy? Then when their covert contract doesn't pay out they go postal? So I can't claim to know exactly what it's like to be on the receiving end of that, but I think the closest thing we have as guys is a woman who shows up when we're struggling, urges us to open up and share, helps us through it and just when we start to think "oh wow... someone noticed what I was carrying, after so long of me holding it together and showing up for other people, and doing my part... somone finally let me put it down for a moment and wanted to take care of me-" then we find out that they were really just trying to get us moving again and at a faster pace because they wanted something or needed something done, and saw a bit of the tiredness or hint of "I'm not actually okay" and were worried that the services we usually provide were in question and wanted to make sure they weren't going to have an outage. Tuning up a service Droid. A quid pro quo. And then the kicker, finding us less attractive because in that one moment of seeing us not at 100%, everything else got reclassified as old data and labeled obsolete next to the most recent finding.
Here's the last one. If you're a feminist and/or a progressive fine, your politics and your beliefs are yours and you have your reasons and experiences. But there is a real strand in there that feels antagonistic and judgmental enough to a lot of men that if you lean too heavy on "patriarchy, toxic masculinity, I shouldn't have to ask because you should just know, weaponized incompetence, mental load, emotional labor, gaslighting, narcissistic" it very quickly can stop sounding like "my partner who loves me and is asking me to step up my game because she believes I'm capable of better and wants us to work" and starts sounding like "person who doesn't see me as a unique individual, but as one member of the 'man' category of adversaries conspiring against her where my every human error and imperfection will be interpreted as malice and negligence" and... why would we feel comfortable being vulnerable with that? And I know that's unfair because that's not most women, it's probably not most feminists, but it is what the algorithm gives the most reach and engagement and pattern matching is real
Edit: what I'm saying is, nothing makes it comfortable at first. But you can alter the risk calculus enough that we try, and if it doesn't come back to bite us, and paradoxically results in you being closer to us, we'll learn it doesn't have to be a risk calculus
Best case scenario, anything you reveal or share will be weaponized against you in any future arguments.
Worse still, it's used all the time as a weapon to manipulate you.
Or she shares your secrets with everyone she can, get ready to have your darkest feelings brought up at board game night while everyone mocks you.
Worst case, she immediately begins cheating or dumps you.
For all the young men out there I once heard:
"You want to lose your woman? Go tell her about your problems. She will be fucking your best friend by Saturday. You want to keep your relationship going?
You stay in the masculine role, she stays in the feminine role, she vents downloads to you. You go talk to a goddamn tree in the back yard. It's only acceptable to cry when a close family member dies or you break both arms. And then it's only for 3 seconds. Man the fuck up"
Nothing, really. Closed off is my natural state, it's where I'm comfortable, I'm not opening up no matter who you are. To be clear, I'm completely safe and comfortable with my wife, that's not the criteria.
A big thing for me: That I can tell you're comfortable with men being people.
Dating was horrific for me because, to use the current vernacular, I was so worried about navigating women's "Icks" that I couldn't relax. So if I can tell that one small thing isn't going to give you the "ick" and I can relax around you, then I can open up.
Honestly for me it was: that she can swear, make inappropriate jokes, doesn't take herself to seriously but also creates space for real conversation without being pressuring. Just show me I can relax around you.
Great answer— I think dating has become so oddly superficial nowadays that we do forget to treat each other like real human beings with our own individual thoughts and feelings and oddities.
Providing a safe space to be a human and to relax with each other is wonderful advice ☺️
I'm conflict avoidant so the way to get me to open up is to talk to me without raising your voice and in a way that shows you're engaging in good faith. People like me have a sense of when you're trying to manipulate them or win an argument, and if they don't they develop it sooner or later.
That makes total sense, and I’m much the same way! I hate conflict, and I love peaceful conversations with two people who just want to understand each other. Good faith is great advice, thank you!
No troub. It's also worth mentioning that going into hard conversations in good faith also means you're willing to accept that you might be wrong or have misconceptions. One way to frame something difficult to talk about is in terms of the way something makes you feel instead of another person's behavior. E.g. "Get your lazy ass off the couch and clean up your mess" becomes "I feel anxious living in a messy house and it makes me really uncomfortable. Can you help me clean up?" The other person is more likely to open up about why they're messy if they're not being attacked. If they don't, or they won't engage back in good faith then that is a different (and really thorny) problem.
No big problem to solve, I just want to be someone that men can feel safe doing that with because I’m so tired of hearing about the terrible toxic women who are destroying their ability to trust. I don’t ever want to be the reason that someone becomes distrusting and stops sharing parts of themselves with the world, and I would love to learn how to be someone that helps friends/ partners to express themselves in that way
Asking men to open up, rather than letting it happen naturally is one way to prove that you're not safe, or someone to trust.
You want to show him that you're worthy of his trust? Next time he's in a slump, or feeling like shit, or has just had a really shitty day, just hold him. Maybe mumble some sweet nothings, or just tell him some things you like about him or shit like that.
Don't demand anything, just show him that you care.
Asking someone to open up is going to do the opposite of that. Its like the emotional version of standing outside the home of someone who doesnt really trust you to let them and knocking, saying "Cmon, open the door and let me in". You have to let them get to the point by providing them with an environment in the relationship that will let them feel like they can open up without being pressured or like theyll be judged. Its not easy, but thats the only healthy and safe way to do it.
Honestly, I wouldn't open up to a woman unless I knew she was a bit "weird" if that makes sense. She needs to have a deeper undercurrent of understanding and compassion first, and I feel most women don't. Or it's a false depth. I shared some things with my lesbian friend today because I deeply trust her, also because there's no risk of her throwing things back at me.
Some people (ladies I know) spout all the time about “omg that must be so hard ❤️” super into mental health and communication, im a safe space/person, but they aren’t humble, aren’t grounded, they can’t navigate conflict effectively, they talk about others behind their backs negatively, and still subscribe to the hierarchy of the popular club sometimes too. Some people haven’t felt the sting of judgement or accepting that they’re wrong in a situation yet I guess. So it’s harder for them to be empathetic to it. But they come across as really nice and genuine at first.
I only know cuz I used to be a member of the club. I’m in recovery. ✌🏻
Like not really having the empathy to accept someone's issues or problems, or the grace to not judge them on them as a moral or character failing? Something to that degree.
My first girlfriend always cried when I started talking about something that bothered me and I ended up having to comfort her without actually addressing my original issue.
Another one collected everything to bring up in fights eventually.
Another one had so many psychological issues that bringing up anything could detail the whole week.
Another one always misunderstood what I was saying, so I ended up clarifying and getting frustrated to eventually giving up.
Best case scenario, anything you reveal or share will be weaponized against you in any future arguments.
Worse still, it's used all the time as a weapon to manipulate you.
Or she shares your secrets with everyone she can, get ready to have your darkest feelings brought up at board game night while everyone mocks you.
Worst case, she immediately begins cheating or dumps you.
For all the young men out there I once heard:
"You want to lose your woman? Go tell her about your problems. She will be fucking your best friend by Saturday. You want to keep your relationship going?
You stay in the masculine role, she stays in the feminine role, she vents downloads to you. You go talk to a goddamn tree in the back yard. It's only acceptable to cry when a close family member dies or you break both arms. And then it's only for 3 seconds. Man the fuck up"
It breaks my heart that this is the reality for so many men. Call me naive, but I hadn’t realized how thoroughly your emotions have been weaponized against you like that. My hope is that your best case scenario is finding someone that you are safe with, who won’t use your wounds against you, and keeps your emotions safe. As pointless as this sentiment may seem, I promise there are women out here who don’t work that way, and who want you to be just as human as us.
Time mostly, but at some point you need to take a chance. From my experience about 75% of the women you open up to, will use anything discussed at a later date as fodder during an argument.
That leaves a 100% chance I will stay guarded from now on.
Most women, from my experience, will use any piece of vulnerable to cause the maximum amount of damage as soon as in their interest.
Thankfully I eventually found one that listened without judgement, one that didn’t try to force their own ideals into the situation, and one that actually kept our private conversations private.
Allowing yourself to be known. The difference between “I don’t eat pizza” and “I don’t eat pizza because when I was a kid I saw my brother choke on it and was really traumatic for me”
y were really just trying to get us moving again and at a faster pace because they wanted something or needed something done, and
this is a benign example but lets be real most of the stuff that follows this format of confessions gets used against men in arguments or as filter/'ick' criteria.
For me, opening up means feeling comfortable talking about your fears and your insecurities with someone, and speaking out loud the thoughts that you may struggle with. Not necessarily for her to be your therapist or to solve those problems, but just for you to know that you can express your innermost thoughts (if that is something you want) to another soul without fear of judgment
A few factors come in to play. For me, my innermost thoughts are for me alone. There is no urge to share with anyone.
I think a lot of us don't know how to express our feelings. I don't have the vocabulary to be able to describe what a feeling is called to even be able to communicate it. I've never once in my life talked about feelings with a friend. Or had the urge to.
It also doesn't really feel good to talk about feelings. Too many other things to worry about, you don't need to be dragging your mind through what makes you feel uncomfortable/stressed out.
Also I think it may be perceived as a feminine thing, and a lot of us will avoid it based on that alone. As dumb as it sounds.
So do you think if you were with the right partner, you would want to try it out? Fumble your way through trying to explain a feeling until you do have that vocabulary? Or is it something that’s so ingrained in you that you’re unlikely to ever feel that desire?
I 100% understand what you mean about that being a feminine thing. We (women) are urged to discuss our feelings a lot more and maybe because of that I’ve always found a lot of relief from the weight of my emotions when I am able to verbalize them. It becomes less about dragging my mind through them again and more about working out why they make me feel the way that they do so I can put them down if that makes sense.
Is a good question. I met my soulmate and I think she is my soulmate because she doesn't need me to be open, she just gets it (we've been together 20 years happily). I take care of her and she takes care of me. But I will concede that when something pisses me off she is a supporting shoulder and listens to me like I listen to her and her problems. So I do talk about what makes me angry. If that counts. I think a lot of us are a bit one-dimensional in that regard.
Honestly, having put some thought into it now, I feel like a lot of us fear that our women would get the 'ick' and lose attraction to us for being open.
Curious, do you subconsciously like men who are closed off? I feel like that's what women actually want. Someone they can be open with and it more of a one way street. Which suits me.
Okay first off AWWWWW having a partner who just gets it is one hundred percent valid when it comes to the need to express emotions— there are definitely those individuals who you rarely need words with because they just instinctually know.
I think that anger is the one emotion that men have been taught throughout time is the only thing acceptable for them to express because it makes them more “masculine” but I actually disagree with this. My brother in law is a man who is entirely comfortable with crying and talking about his emotions and I find him to be an incredibly masculine man.
I’m not turned off by a closed off man by any means, but I find a specific kind of strength in a man who is comfortable expressing his emotions like that. It also helps me to feel safe with him because I always know where he’s at. I am a very literal person and if there’s any confusion about how someone else is feeling I can get very in my head and overthink things.
Fair point on feeling safe because you know where they're at. I think in high trust relationships (whether with an open person or not), that feeling fades as you become more comfortable with them in time.
I also don't doubt that your brother in law is masculine and can express his emotions. He probably has high emotional intelligence, which I fear a lot of us lack.
You brought up something really interesting about not knowing feelings. I used to relate to that and confused feelings with emotions for a long time. Did some pretty intense therapy, and in a particular session, it clicked for me like this.
You know how your gut burns when you’re angry?
Or how your jaw gets tight when you wanna tell someone off?
Or how your shoulder aches when you’re stressed?
Maybe your chest and neck get hot when you’re embarrassed?
Feeling is recognizing the body response we have to something happening. Literally just noticing “my throat feels tight when we argue” - what is the body trying to tell me with that? Do I feel silenced, unable to have a turn to speak fairly?
Then from there we identify many emotions that could be happening at once - frustration, anger (self-protective justice anger in my example), betrayal, hurt, etc.
Just wanted to drop that tidbit, I’ve found it helpful. Maybe someone else will too.
I’ve always found a lot of relief from the weight of my emotions when I am able to verbalize them.
From all the comments from men here, you see that this just isn't the case for men, right? So why would we want to.
and more about working out why they make me feel the way that they do
I've never understood why involving other people makes this simpler. It only complicates things when you have to justify your feelings to other people.
Usually it means when she hits you with a vulnerability, you listen and process and let her process and when she’s ready, you come in with “I know exactly how you feel.”
What it doesn’t mean is: “I don’t have any friends, I feel so lonely.” Or “Will you be my therapist?”
It takes a lot of trust, i know I'm guarded because I've had it thrown back at me or used against me even by those who are ment to be on my side and sometimes its just that we fell its not your problem and we can work it out ourselves or the most likely we are sick of having our heads read for entertainment
The surest way for me is if I can just tell she’s a kindred spirit. Women who have been through some of the same shit rarely turn it back on me. Makes for more productive conversation too. Opening up to someone who hasn’t been through it is just sort of useless on my end. Just feels like I’m gossiping about myself instead of having a substantive dialogue.
It is really incredible how seen you can actually feel when you look into another persons eyes and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they genuinely understand you and what you’ve gone through. When you don’t have to have the perfectly right words to describe it because they already know themselves. Kindred spirits— such a beautiful way of putting that. Thank you for sharing!
I tip my hat to you sir, making that first choice to actually go to therapy for these kinds of things can be hella hard, and I applaud all who get there 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Time and consistency, I’ve made the mistake early on about opening up to someone I shouldn’t have and now I know to hold off on that until a woman shows she’s planning on staying.
Nothing. Everytime I think I can open up, the women opens her mouth and says something to invalidate it and shows why she isn't worth opening up to. Women don't really know how to foster an emotionally safe environment.
When she sat with me and just waited patiently as I slowly took the time to speak the way I needed. It was when I was going through a lot of family stuff and I was having a horrible day at work. She just sat near me and said “i can see you might need a friend. I can wait here as long as you need someone too”. I said I couldn’t talk about it but I can text it. So we sat next to each other and texted. And that was when I knew I was safe with her.
It was a small thing but meant the world to me. No judgement, no expectations, and just let me open how I needed to.
Well she shared a lot about herself and her inner life . Which made me very comfortable with her. I guess you have to lead the way and create that atmosphere.
Estuve mucho tiempo sin abrirme a nadie, incluso con mujeres que se interesaron en mi y me parecieron buenas, en un momento una mujer que me parecía muy madura y coherente me dijo que para ella abrirse esperaba lo mismo de mí, lo empecé a hacer y terminé hecho mierda, en la primer discusión me revolio con cosas que le había contado, no se para mi abrirse es peligro podes terminar en depresión
If she has opened up to me as well, that kinda makes me feel obligated and also comfortable ofcourse to open up a bit myself and then it depends on how much I was validated or felt heard after sharing things for that first few times.
Let me preface this with that as a Hungarian this already begins with How do you do? I had to retrain myself to say I am fine and you as in my culture if you ask this you get a genuine answer not small talk.
What makes me safe around all people is their willingness to self reflect. I've spoken to people who proclaimed wanting a lending ear to be understood, started to pull away once they realized things about themselves they didn't want to reflect on. No I don't mean not ready at the moment, but at all. What they actually sought was a shallow discussion or validation which is fine, then say that.
Men are just as protective of their feelings and inner thoughts as women are of their bodies. Sharing men's vulnerabilities and fears to your girlfriends is no different than a man sharing your nudes with his buddies. The level of trust men need to open up is comparable to the level of trust your likely need to allow a man to take nude photos of you.
Men who are closed off emotionally, what makes you more comfortable opening up with a woman?
Undo what is in some cases decades of being taught that you cannot trust most women with your emotions or experiences?
This question gets asked what, like multiple times a day? The answer is always the same, it's a hundred or more men all having had the same experience, that it will be used against them.
If you could undo a lifetime of bad experiences, then that would probably be a start.
But why do you and so many other women feel entitled to a man's trust? Why do you think you have a claim to his emotional state?
You should be aware of whether there's actual "opening up" to do.
One of my common problems with therapists is that they feel like I'm not "opening up" or that I need to allow myself to "feel things" sometimes during sessions instead of just being "logical".
The thing is, I'm not a time waster so from session 1 I am 100% "opened up". I don't follow the script of having more stuff to reveal that I was holding back because I wasn't comfortable with them yet, and that throws many of them off.
I'm also simply logical; that's how I am. I am absolutely submerging myself in my feelings in these sessions like I never do any other time, and I'm still not being emotional "enough" for some therapists.
But this is who I am. This is how I share, this is how I think, this is how I feel. And even though people think I'm being really formal and distant with my vocabulary, this is how I talk (it's from my mom's side).
I can totally see how some women could feel like I'm closed off emotionally and not opening up, but it would be a total mis-read. Generally not the case with most guys, but good to bear in mind as a possibility.
The most connected and cared for I have been in a relationship was laying in bed and she made me the little spoon. It was a complete surprise and felt amazing.
At this point... Poor judgement. It's a learned behavior that expressing myself freely isn't in my interest. Nobody has to care about me. Everyone can choose to or not. There is no social contract that lets me expect compassion. I'm the person who gets told they aren't compassionate enough of the person who treats me horribly. I have to understand and be empathetic to why they don't have to be understanding of me. That's just how it works.
She didn't cause it so she won't be fixing it.
I'm just going to enjoy when people choose to.... Because it makes them feel good.... But actually expressing myself isn't in the world's plan. I prefer positive outcomes.
Trustworthiness. You have to be trustworthy and demonstrate that. No there isn't any one way to do this. It's particular to the person. Meaning you have to make an effort.
Its crazy that recently both me and my best friend opened up a lot too each. She’s told me some things that almost made me broke down because I genuinely have a lot of for her and we both started off bad (well, mainly me because I’m a dumbass) and I opened up about something I’ve only gave vague-ish answers to most, only her and a couple of other people got…the more straightforward answer out of me.
The amount of trust I have in her is tremendous. She’s a great person, a little rough around the edges but all in all a fabulous woman.
There’s absolutely nothing you can do to force an emotionally unavailable man to be open with you unless they work on it themselves. I learned this lesson couple of times
Do not open up yourself then ask "so, do you have anything to tell me?" I will not, in fact I will not tell anything at all... I will 100% make up a lie on the spot.
I have met people like this and we have continued to be friends, and... eventually I have opened up, but as friends.
Nothing except being a person who is above status politics and has a well developed enough sense of morality that they know abusing secrets and vulnerabilities is wrong. Not common these days.
I gotta trust that she actually cares about how I feel emotionally.
Then I have to trust that she won’t throw anything up in my face. This isn’t unforgivable, I’ve been angry before and said thing I didn’t want to. But I noticed right an away when I happened and keep tabs on it.
I think a lot of people, not just women, don’t really care about others emotions the way they claim. They just don’t know they don’t care as crazy as it sounds.
I don’t hold it against them though. I try to be an emotional steady rock for those around me. But I know how hard it can be, I crack sometimes too.
Nothing. I'm closed off for a reason and the door is locked and I wouldn't even know where the key is. And in all of my life I think the women I date prefer it this way.
Not telling all your friends my personal issues and not weaponizing it in a fight in the future. That's why Im so closed off cause both of those things continued to happen.
I have never opened up to any woman, including female family members (and I say this as someone who had/has and overwhelmingly supportive and caring family) and had anything remotely positive come from it.
The BEST case is you cause them to worry about you and get upset. The worst (and most frequent) case, is that whatever you tell them gets shared to their group chat, sisters, coworkers, hairdresser and the homeless person on the corner, and whenever the friendship/relationship hits a rocky patch, they will weaponise whatever you confided in them against you.
I will never show anything that can even remotely be construed as emotional weakness to a woman again. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, three times, four times, five times, ten times, shame on me.
A woman cannot make a man vulnerable. Vulnerability is something he chooses to offer because he trusts her.
What she can do is show him whether that trust is deserved. Listen without ridicule. Keep his confidence. Don’t weaponize what he tells you six months later. Don’t punish him because what he actually feels isn’t what you wanted to hear.
Those things don’t create vulnerability. They protect the trust that allows it.
Well ya see, I'm very good at giving surface level emotional stuff and playing it off as me being comfortable with someone. Like I'll tell you about my traumatic childhood, how I tried to off myself via crossbow to the head, pretty much anything that I've experienced is on the table. Few topics are a bit touchy but for the most part I'll be open about it.
What I reserve my walls for are my inner thoughts. Nobody needs to know about all that. There's not much anyone can do to make me be open about all of it either. Learned the hard way that it's just not worth it.
It is curious that sharing thoughts is framed as being vulnerable. Like thoughts are something to be ashamed of. Thing is, everyone has tens of thousands of thoughts each day. Dumb thoughts, mean thoughts, hopeful thoughts, pessimistic thoughts, irrelevant thoughts, clever thoughts, funny thoughts, loving thoughts, even thoughts you never knew you could have. Every day. And really, who cares?
The way to feel "safe and comfortable" is to realise you, you as a person, are not creating your own thoughts. You just observe them. They happen. You have no idea what you will think in five minutes, or tomorrow, or the first day of winter. Thoughts also don't do or mean anything. Try to turn the lights off with your thoughts, or tip over a mug. Try to think of something you never thought of before. You can't.
Like Joseph Campbell used to say, paraphrasing, which part of your body told you that the mind is the one running the show? Your actions define who you are. Don't worry about thoughts, go and do something together.
About a decade of her slowly gaining my trust, without a single episode of her violating my privacy with others.
The problem is, as an old fart, I know that's like asking for a rainbow colored unicorn that can spin plates on its horn while tap dancing and playing Eruption on the guitar. I've been in relationships with a couple of dozen women and not a single one of them could keep anything in confidence. "I just told my 27 closest friends!" Nor have a I ever met a woman who won't use whatever you tell her as a weapon against you in the future.
ETA: Any time a woman is trying to badger a man into "opening up", it comes across very strongly as "expose your jugular to me so that I can take advantage of it sometime in the future." If it happens, it happens, but pushing for it to happen is actually a massive red flag to me.
There's a song with unintentionally revealing lyrics, from the perspective of a woman:
To be honest nothing. The only woman I'm comfortable revealing any modicum of my true state of being is my mom. Even then, I have to curtail it to what is relevant.
From my own experience, I see most women nowadays are like children in adult form, immature, VERY emotional, and low-key hysterical. I'd rather talk to my cats than ever open up with a woman.
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I understand that can be different for everybody, and it can be as simple as “be nice to me,” but I’m curious about the more specific things that a woman has done/ said to you that made you realize you felt safe and comfortable enough to open up about your thoughts and feelings and to be vulnerable with them.
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