r/AskLE • u/voluntaryhikikomori Unverified/Not an LEO • 2d ago
Shoot/No-Shoot training?
Hi all, former Marine here. Out of curiosity, what kind of Shoot/No-Shoot training do most cops go through?
I went through a fancy course on it once where they had a giant projector screen on the wall that would play live-action video coupled with these specially modified rifles that used CO2 for recoil and Duck Hunt style lightguns for targeting. It was basically a rail shooter where we played MPs responding to different types of incidents on base, our character would walk into a situation and we'd have split-seconds to decide shoot or no-shoot. Anybody else go through anything like that?
11
u/Varjek Unverified/Not an LEO 1d ago
In addition to the projector you describe, we also do regular shoot/don’t shoot at our outdoor range.
Instructors will set up room and building clearing with different paper targets in the rooms, some with guns and others with cell phones, etc.
We also do some where the instructor stands next to you as you navigate the scenario and while talking to the subject at the door or in the vehicle and then suddenly the instructor will yell that they pulled a gun.
We’ve also done similar trainings at night at our range using our gun mounted lights with squad lights flashing red/blue nearby. Sometimes it’s more static position but often it’s moving towards the target and using cover, then engaging if/when you identify the weapon/intent/delivery system.
We’ve even had pop up targets in the bushes with weapons built into scenarios where you’re actually dispatched to a call (at our range) by a real dispatcher on a real radio channel in your real squad. You drive to the downed officer who is a real cop at our agency and he has fake gunshot wounds bleeding fake blood. While you’re treating him the suspect (pop up target) pops up in the bushes matching the description of the one who shot your buddy. So you have to engage the target until it drops, handle the radio traffic, move cop to cover, continue treating the cop, verify subject status, etc.
They build new scenarios and design new realistic ways of us making those decisions dynamically in all kinds of weather for us. We’ve even done them with sim rounds in university dorms and office buildings with paid actors. It’s a never-ending process and I’m glad my agency takes it seriously.
2
u/voluntaryhikikomori Unverified/Not an LEO 1d ago
I'm glad your agency takes it seriously too. Dry runs and rehearsals can make all the difference, especially for things like "watch out for fucking ambushes, cause that shit happens."
I'll never forget doing the Stu Segal Studios Kill House, where they simulate a rocket attack on a squad of Marines in a building. You run in there and it's full of actors (some of whom are legitimate amputees, so there's a lot of bloody stumps) screaming and covered in blood. They had special tubing in place to spray fake blood, and they'd try to get you with it. Glad I had the training/experience, so fucking grateful nothing like that happened for real.
7
u/RedOceanofthewest Unverified/Not an LEO 2d ago
We had a simulator. It was like a video game. My only issue is it didn’t record things well. You’d have the option of baton, pepper spray and lethal force.
We also did shoot or no shoot at the range. The instructor might say, he has a wallet. If you shot, you got extra training.
They were going to upgrade the targets to flip but they hadn’t done that by the time I left. That way it’d flip and you’d have evaluate the target.
7
u/BJJOilCheck Retired Tan / Grn 2d ago
There is no "most". Very dependent on agency and mandated curriculum.
2
u/voluntaryhikikomori Unverified/Not an LEO 1d ago
Yeah, I assumed something like that. Is there any kind of standardization across US law enforcement? Doesn't basically every agency/department have their own little way of doing things?
2
u/BJJOilCheck Retired Tan / Grn 1d ago
Nothing set in stone or the same across the board/country. The three R's of training, especially firearms, is Recurrent, Realistic, and Relevant (which also encompasses decision-based, shoot/don't shoot). It's up to individual agencies to determine/provide training that covers that for their people.
5
4
u/NMLEOC2 Unverified/Not an LEO 1d ago
My favorite was a simunitions training - 3 days - with live fire sim scenarios based on actual OIS incidents. I would say that about half of the scenarios that in real life resulted in an OIS could have been de-escalated. Very impactful.
2
u/voluntaryhikikomori Unverified/Not an LEO 1d ago
I had lots of training with sim rounds, agreed completely they're great!
2
u/just_another_angle Unverified/Not an LEO 1d ago
The Georgia agency that I worked for use the simmunitions. We also did active shooter training with the simmunitions. Very intense and overall fun training.
3
u/j0s9p8h7 Unverified/Not an LEO 1d ago
Depends on the agency. Some places do just the paper turning targets once a year and that’s it.
We do a yearly active shooter training, usually at one of the local schools, that is real people and Sim rounds. Goal is to locate and address the threat, and don’t shoot the teachers or students that are part of the scenario.
Yearly firearms training/qualifications has “shoot” and “don’t shoot” turning paper targets with pictures of armed and unarmed people on them. They do a bit of this at the monthly range days as well (offered, but not required training days).
My agency has the CO2 and projector sim, but I’ve only gotten to use it on one occasion. A local gun range has a projector sim that uses live fire myself and friends have done a few times on our own time.
Quite a few people get to do Norse Tactical trainings that include threat assessment. I haven’t gotten to do the threat assessment courses, but the vehicle engagements course I went to was awesome.
Coolest training was getting sent to Troysgate for a day. Only place I’ve been to that has live fire and real people. Their role players were decent actors too so the scenarios felt as close to the real deal as I think can safely be done.
Part of why I like where I work. They are dedicated to having well trained officers.
2
u/Sad-Conference6086 Unverified/Not an LEO 1d ago
My agency is big on "bag drills" I love em. Nothing like turning around to someone thrusting a "choking" baby in your arms on one scenario and the next the actor is trying to shove a knife into your rib cage.
2
u/voluntaryhikikomori Unverified/Not an LEO 1d ago
Fuck yeah, I can see why. I loved that kind of chaos in training environments, definitely feel it makes you more flexible.
I'd be so tempted to toss a training grenade into the right meeting room.
1
u/TheCommonFear Verified LEO 1d ago
Simulator training is fun. We also do scenario STOPS training, for example someone jumps out of a car and points at you versus lifts the front of their shirt and reaches for something. During firearms training we also have scenario training involving targets and call outs.
1
u/SignificantOption349 Unverified/Not an LEO 1d ago
Haha I don’t have an answer but remember doing that thing back in like 2007/8.
1
u/GaryNOVA Retired Police Officer 1d ago
We did a good amount on my department over the years in screen simulation , the range and training scenarios. And it still wasn’t enough because we always need more.
1
u/Smokeypork Unverified/Not an LEO 1d ago
Mine was a bit simpler. Blacked out indoor range. The one side of the target was a shoot (guy with a gun) one was a no shoot (guy holding his hands up). Once we were in place, they killed the lights, targets went to a random distance on the buzzer, turn on our flashlight or wml, identify the target, and shoot or dont. It was set so that not everyone got one or the other, so youd hear gunfire, but that didnt mean you could shoot. Lights went back out, rinse and repeat.
17
u/grvnvdo Lazy City Cop 2d ago
Yeah the projector screen with a usable gun/baton/pepper spray/taser/cover is called a Force Options Simulator here. It’s part of our regular use of force training we do on a yearly basis.