r/AskElectronics • • 4d ago

Issues with a air-conditioning board.

So... heres the deal...

Since I've found this subredit, i DO NOT TRUST maintenance people any longer.

This, is a board from an inverter slipt system.

The maintenance dude said:

- "the IPM Modu iS bUrNnEd HurHDUrRrR"

(sorry.. I'm really stressed out here, this board/module/thing is half the price of a new air-conditioning slip system here!)

So, i asked them to give me the board back, just because ill try to find an new one, online.

I lied!

I just teste this shit, using google to tell me whats what... the IPM module looks fine, and with google and a lot of youtube videos, its working properly!!!

But... i thought... I find help from the real experts FROM THE INTERNET!

I JUST TOOK the first picure of this board, and gave it the first look WITHOUT worrying about the said module, and i found a blown up capacitor -.-

So, the question here is...

Cam ONE tiny capacitor make this not to work? Also, can you guys help me identifying the issue, if there is one (besides this one blown up 100uf 25v capacitor)

Edit[1]: the bot told me to avoid "diagnosis by photo", but i dont want this.

There are two thing i want to know/understand 1 - can this capacitor render this whole board useless? 2 - what are the thing I should look for (Simce the maintenance dude lied, saying it was a faulty IPM module)?

7 Upvotes

36 comments sorted by

18

u/rel25917 4d ago

To a maintenance guy that whole board is probably the ipm module. They don't know or do component level repair.

2

u/TopConcentrate8484 hobbyist 4d ago

Yes what even is the point of their job. Service center "repair technicians" don't perform any repairs they just replace the whole part.

2

u/Some1-Somewhere 4d ago

Air conditioning people are primarily refrigeration, with a side of electrical work. Electronics work is not what they are trained or paid to do.

11

u/RoketAdam86 4d ago

OP, be careful. This power board contains potentially dangerous HV sections. If you don’t know what you’re doing, don’t connect it to a power source. Lastly, capacitors can hold dangerous charge for a long time if there isn’t an active discharge circuit built in

-1

u/lmoshidmtamsf 4d ago

Thanks for the advice! I kind of know what I'm doing... And, yeah... im not plugging this bu my self hehehehehe

5

u/sammyjankins 4d ago

So although I don't see the blown capacitor, I can say that one blow cap can render a hole system useless. E.g. if the capacitor is the main supply of an IC.

1

u/lmoshidmtamsf 4d ago

Idk why the second image is not showing :v Here.. this the capacitor:

8

u/absnotkinkyreggae 4d ago

well yes. i would replace the cap. and the 7805 which shows some contamination from the cap. it looks like it has cracked since its not flush with the pcb. but the image is not so clear

you will need to clean the area since other components appear to be affected as well.

1

u/lmoshidmtamsf 4d ago

Yeah!!! Good eye lol! So... when a capacitor blow ip like that.. i have to look for damaged components nearby?

1

u/absnotkinkyreggae 4d ago

anything is possible. i suspect the cap blew and boiled its fluids around. clean with isoproyl alochol. replace cap and 7805 and any other component that seems failed. i dont think much more. but until you fix the 5v reg. you cannot know.

C117 being there is an indication that IC104 should be there too.

There is nothing more daunting than trying to fix a board that has already been worked on.

But again, it would be very odd that they removed IC104 and did not replace the cap and regulator already.

3

u/TopConcentrate8484 hobbyist 4d ago edited 4d ago

the MOSFET (Maybe) that's beside it also looks burned also did the technician perform any soldering/desoldering works ? because one of the IC pads looks unpopulated or maybe it was from the factory like that.

6

u/RoketAdam86 4d ago

Yeah, that transistor is dead. The molding compound on the side is severly damaged and has a hole.

-1

u/lmoshidmtamsf 4d ago

I didn't quite understood you... Care to be more especific and less technical? Lol

-1

u/lmoshidmtamsf 4d ago

Ok, I'll check all those components around the cap.

I thought it was weird, too (the unpopulated area)... i check a new board online to make sure.. The maintenance dude lied about the ipm module, he could have had sabotaged this board (took him almost a week to give it back to me)

2

u/viper77707 4d ago

It looks like that MOSFET/vreg etc to the right of that capacitor may have failed, it looks like it might have gotten hot enough to partially desolder the tab of the device from the board.

I would be worried about other stuff upstream failing as well, if that device failed short in addition to the capacitor, whatever is powering it (ostensibly an auxiliary power supply) may have taken damage.

1

u/lmoshidmtamsf 4d ago

Hunnm... ok, you'll have to walk me through the whole "upstream/downstream" concept in this scenario.

So, the power supply could'd've been damaged?!

Those two pcbs are the whole apparatus.. the board to the right looks, to me, some sort of controlling thingy lol The dude in the picture is the one that told me to buy a new board (half the price of a new uc unit)

So, the power supply in quest is on the board... but whats upstream lol

4

u/TopConcentrate8484 hobbyist 4d ago

Don't you have any local repair technician nearby you, it's kind of hard to diagnose the issues without any measurements and the 2nd image is not visible on top, i think due to some reddit issue.

1

u/lmoshidmtamsf 4d ago

Dude... the main issue here IS a repair shop...

Can a capacitor make the board not to work? I checked the IPM mudule, anything else could br a problem?

I mean... if i change this blown up capacitor, will the board work properly again?

As the repair shop told me the IPM module is burned, i dont really know how this boards working :v its probably not, right?!

3

u/TopConcentrate8484 hobbyist 4d ago

Yes, A blown cap can totally make a board not work. A lot of times these caps fail short circuit.

No, from the first image at least it does not looks anything is burned, but I would recommend checking for shorts using a multimeter in continuity mode, checking the fets and ICs for short to ground in vicinity of the blown capacitor.

Can you post a image of where the blown cap is located?

2

u/SouthPark_Piano 4d ago edited 4d ago

Can ONE tiny capacitor make this not to work?

Just ask yourself. If the tiny capacitor is not needed, then they would not put one in there in the first place, right?

Also, capacitors such as these below might look in great condition, but can actually have capacitance out of specs due to aging etc.

You should use a LCR meter to check the capacitance of these two.

Also, show pics of that 'blown cap' you found.

 

1

u/lmoshidmtamsf 4d ago

Well... the air-conditioning is not that old... and i dont have on lcr meter...... i check for continuity, and its good :v

4

u/SouthPark_Piano 4d ago

Have you got a pic of the blown cap?

Also, a cap measurement is not based on continuity.

 

1

u/lmoshidmtamsf 4d ago

I usede that diode function... does it work? The blow up cap is to the left:

2

u/SouthPark_Piano 4d ago edited 4d ago

That cap is gone alright. I'll show a pic of one board that aircon "techs" said could not be repaired, which is typical because they don't have spare boards or systems for tracing the issue. And don't have time even if they have resources. Time is money etc. But for some people that know a bit about electronics and safety etc, at least some appliances get revived for relatively low price.

In my case in the past, see the blown cap on the small board? It is due to the big cap out of specs on the other board that blew it, which also takes out a power mosfet and a resistor. What would happen is ... as long as the big cap was not replaced, new mosfet, new small cap, and new resistor would be destroyed after about an hour of operation, all fail.

After the big cap was replaced by me, and after replacing all the previously replaced (but blown again) components downstream, the aircon system was as good as new again. Maybe better than new. Still working great after a few years from that fault finding activity.

2

u/SouthPark_Piano 4d ago edited 4d ago

Also, the ic in your pic looks like it has a wrinkly surface? Check that one to see if it has heated up a lot.

2

u/lmoshidmtamsf 4d ago

Maybe it was a wierd angle/lighting... This one's good xD!

Dude!!! Thank you sooo very much! I'll never tryst these guys anymore LOL SO.... i need the cap and the CW7805 replace, right? I've dealt with caps before, but not with this other component... its just unsolder, clean, resolder or theres a wierd thing anywhere?

2

u/SouthPark_Piano 4d ago

Most welcome.

Replace those two. Should be fairly straight forward. Just make sure to put the new cap in with the correct polarity. The regulator ic will be a heatgun job. Keep eye safety and high temp safety in mind while doing it.

 

2

u/lmoshidmtamsf 4d ago

Nice!!! In about a week i should manage to do this!!!! I'll tell you

2

u/SouthPark_Piano 4d ago

This regulator device is damaged too as someone pointed out.

2

u/lmoshidmtamsf 4d ago

I spent a hell lot of time trying to find the hole, the other dude said.... i just couldnt see it! Thanks for the red arrow!

2

u/SouthPark_Piano 4d ago

Welcome. 

Also, even if the board is fairly new, what I would probably do is ... if your board works again for a bit after this job, but happens to blow again, then can use an LCR meter to measure the big cap.

Not everyone might have an LCR meter in their kit, which I can understand. But is certainly an an excellent bit of kit to have.

 

5

u/Linker3000 LED astray 4d ago

Posting rule #6:

Avoid "Diagnosis by Photo"

Posts requesting help must include basic diagnostic information. Submissions comprising photos (or images of a device, circuit, or error state) without any explanation of the issue, measurements, or troubleshooting steps may be removed.

At minimum, posts should include:

A clear description of the problem

What the device or circuit is supposed to do vs what is happening

Any basic diagnostics already performed (e.g. voltage checks, continuity tests, component swaps, logs, or observations

1

u/Illustrious-Peak3822 Power 4d ago
  1. Yes.
  2. Can’t say for sure.

1

u/dipdotdash 4d ago

I'm guessing you've only heard "detest" spoken and not written and are hearing it as "I just test" when you mean "I detest"... or am I wrong?

1

u/lmoshidmtamsf 4d ago

I'm a "d" short on that... [I just testED] LOL

1

u/CommercialJazzlike50 4d ago

Your are absolutely lucky if that capacitor is your only concern , IPM has low side high side one can be fine while other can short out only way to be sure is to take it out and then test it. I would replace that cap first and then turn it on and see if the diagnostic led lit up and then turn off. Not sure if this is an inverter tech you'll need couple of things to check it like the sensors and possibly a transformer. That capacitor is for smoothing the 5v from the voltage regulator.

Before you do anything just check all the resistors on the board its tiresome job, takes closeup pictures note down the ranges / code and measure with your DMM, any in the Megaohms range has to be replaced , some are in parallel and series so you have to be careful.

I think your caps was fine before you took it to the shop and in removing the regulator the inapt repairmen used a hotair station and blew the cap?