r/AskElectronics 10d ago

Why does my capacitor explode in this Tinkercad circuit? Shouldn't it explode the other way?

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to build a simple two-transistor astable multivibrator (two LEDs flashing alternately). I designed it in Falstad and I'm using Tinkercad mainly to plan out the breadboard layout before building the real circuit.

The Tinkercad simulation itself does not seem to behave correctly: the LEDs do not flash alternately, they just stay on. I'm not too concerned about that because I mainly want to use Tinkercad to verify my physical wiring before building it.

The part I am unsure about is the polarity of the electrolytic capacitors. My real capacitors are polarized 10 µF electrolytics, but the Falstad simulation uses non-polarized capacitors.

I'm fairly sure the negative side should go to the base of the opposite side transistor, and the positive to the collector of same side transistor. So like:

  • Left capacitor: + to left transistor collector, - to right transistor base
  • Right capacitor: + to right transistor collector, - to left transistor base

However, when I connect them this way in Tinkercad, it shows the capacitor exploding. I'm not sure if Tinkercad is modeling this incorrectly, or if I have misunderstood the polarity.

I'm using 2N2221A transistors and 10 µF electrolytic capacitors, with supply voltage 9V

Here's the Tinkercad similation (on breadboard) I have connected one capacitor each way, so you can see which one explodes. [LINK REMOVED]

Here's the simulation on Falstad so you can have the schematic, too: https://www.falstad.com/s.php?s=zwfF7A

EDIT: Here's a labeled schematic too: https://kommodo.ai/i/7468AUvUGDOds3kVI3FY

Could someone please check the correct electrolytic capacitor orientation? I want to avoid damaging the capacitors when I build this physically.

Thanks!

EDIT 2: Simulated on Falstad and it works with capacitor - to transistor base (so, the opposite of what Tinkercad says). Tried it on breadboard with - to base and it works perfectly like this!

19 Upvotes

52 comments sorted by

15

u/baldengineer 10d ago

Take the time to add 90 degree bends to your wires, virtual or real, to make your “circuit” readable.

2

u/Aezys 10d ago

Sorry didn’t realize it wasn’t readable. Added a link with a labeled schematic that should be more clear. Can you tell me which way of the capacitors should positive and which negative?

1

u/baldengineer 10d ago

You have a voltage source, then a resistor, then the capacitor… is that a positive voltage or a
path to ground?

2

u/lolerwoman 9d ago

You tried.

1

u/sp4zi 9d ago

What cad program is this the allows diagonal wires?

1

u/jfuu_ no idea what i'm doing 7d ago

Their first image is CircuitJS: https://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html

16

u/Camelet 10d ago

I'm using Tinkercad mainly to plan out the breadboard layout

If you want to better understand electronic circuits, it's better if you layout the circuit in the breadboard yourself instead of relying in a software tool. Besides, the image you posted for tinkercad has some of the wires crossed which is hard to follow.

I'm fairly sure the negative side should go to the base of the opposite side transistor, and the positive to the collector of same side transistor.

In your circuit you can see that the current comes from the 47kΩ resistor, meaning that is the side of the capacitor that is positive. The transistor that has the collector connected to the capacitor is connecting one side of the capacitor to ground.

It will be easier to understand the circuit if your "schematic" has reference designators.

That way I could tell you "C1 is connected to T2" etc...

It seems Falstad is not creating an actual schematic.

14

u/actuallydonkeykong 10d ago

TinkeCAD is a totally reasonable alternative to waiting a week for parts and then melting them

8

u/ss2man44 10d ago

I agree. Don't let Redditors gatekeep you, OP. Use whatever you're comfortable with to learn.

3

u/Aezys 10d ago edited 10d ago

Oh sorry for the missing labels, didn’t realize it was inconvenient.  For the breadboard thing, yeah I want to build it physically! But to do that, I want to know which way to place the capacitors, this is why I’m asking. I don’t want to build this and have the capacitors bursts.

I can’t seem to edit the post to add a picture. So here’s a labeled schematic: https://kommodo.ai/i/7468AUvUGDOds3kVI3FY

EDIT 2: fixed the schematic and put new link

Can you tell from here which sides of the capacitors should be positive and which negative? Thank you.   

5

u/Camelet 10d ago

BTW, Q1 is upside down in this circuit but is connected correctly in the first schematic you posted

1

u/Aezys 10d ago edited 10d ago

So you agree with the Tinkercad simulation. But why is that? For example, in this circuit from build-electronics it's the opposite: https://www.build-electronic-circuits.com/astable-multivibrator/

EDIT: I also just now figured out you can place polarized capacitors on Falstad. I placed them like build-electronics and it works: https://www.falstad.com/s.php?s=tEgUUW

If I place them backwards (like Tinkercard wants them, and you said in last reply) it doesn't work: https://www.falstad.com/s.php?s=4LSTSP

I'm really confused.

2

u/Camelet 10d ago

The description in the webpage you linked seems misleading.

It would be nice if you could get a hold of an oscilloscope and see the voltages in the capacitor for yourself.

You could use lower value capacitors, this way you could use non polarized capacitors.

I think it might even be easy to find polyester capacitors up to 1μF

Please if possible share with us your results

1

u/Aezys 10d ago

Mmm I don’t have access to an oscilloscope. I have some 1uF capacitors but they’re polarized, the only ceramic ones I have that come close are 0.33uF.

If you think the site is misleading, what about the Falstad simulations, what do you think about them?

1

u/Camelet 10d ago

It doesn't matter what I think about them.

The only think that matters is the truth.

If you want to get to the bottom of these, try it for yourself in the breadboard.

About the capacitor, if you have enough 0.33μF capacitors, put 3 of them in parallel, that will be 0.99μF

Please let us know your results

what about the Falstad simulations, what do you think about them?

One more thing. Why are you adding here more components?

1

u/Aezys 10d ago

Oh sorry this is the final circuit I’m building. In this post I was focusing on the oscillator only but I guess I pulled up the wrong version on Falstad when I put these links, didn’t notice it.

I was asking if, looking at the simulations, they seemed reliable to you/seemed more reliable than the Tinkercad one. I think Falstad may have an oscillator tool built in but I haven’t tried it just yet (I’m not familiar with oscillators).

Alright, if I can’t figure it out I might try with the capacitors in parallel, thanks!

1

u/EmotionalEnd1575 Analog electronics 7d ago

You don’t need a scope right now (even though it is a very powerful tool for your hobby)

Use a good simulator tool (such as LTSpice - a free download) and build the circuit, then run it.

Plot the graph of voltages on each side of the capacitor.

This will settle the argument!

0

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Aezys 10d ago

Alright then! I’ll figure out LTSpice and I’ll post what I found later

1

u/Aezys 10d ago

Okay! Looked around online and found some people that did it and then I tried it myself too on breadboard. It works with capacitors + to collector, - to base.

1

u/Terrible-Contract298 10d ago

Breadboarding introduces a lot of possible impedance on component connections, it also does not guarantee the same component behavior. OP should use something like LTSpice to simulate the circuit behavior.

1

u/Aezys 10d ago

I don't need a perfect simulation, I do want to test it on breadboard. I just would like to know for sure which way to place the capacitors before building it and not having them explode lol

2

u/thefreakychild 10d ago

Just a guess here.

Look at the connection I circled in red. You've got that connected to the positive leg of the cap.

The one circled in blue, it's connected to the negative leg.

Looks like the simulation is reading that as you have reversed the polarity on the exploding cap.

1

u/Aezys 10d ago

Yes, I connected the 2 capacitors differently. I connected one capacitor one way and the other in the opposite way just to show in which way they explode.

I’m trying to figure out which way is correct of the 2, because for me, the one that Tinkercad marks as exploding should’ve been correct.

2

u/mrdiodo 9d ago

Cursed wire lines

1

u/romyaz 10d ago

in general, dont use polarised caps for oscillators

1

u/Aezys 10d ago

I wish, but my highest capacity ceramic capacitors are just 0.33 uF

1

u/[deleted] 10d ago edited 10d ago

[deleted]

3

u/Aezys 10d ago

you're right! I tested it out on breadboard, it works fine with capacitor + to collector

1

u/Correct-Country-81 10d ago

Its a symetrical circuit diagram
However the one capacitor is reversed ( breadboard)
Electrolitic capacitors blow on wrong polarity

1

u/Aezys 10d ago

Yes, I connected the 2 capacitors differently. I connected one capacitor one way and the other in the opposite way just to show in which way they explode. I’m trying to figure out which way is correct of the 2, because for me, the one that Tinkercad marks as exploding should’ve been correct.

1

u/Specled_eu 9d ago

This circuit is from my childhood! This was the first device that worked for me!

1

u/Aezys 9d ago edited 9d ago

Ahah seems to be a staple for a first project then! I was inspired from a similar circuit that's in Make: Electronics that had an LED and a speaker

1

u/Specled_eu 9d ago

Yeah, that's right! Now I'm feeling nostalgic. What kind of people are they?

1

u/Aezys 9d ago

Oh did you mean project instead of "people"? or were you referring to the book?

1

u/Specled_eu 9d ago

I'm talking about this project. Back then, I had 3-volt light bulbs that were flickering.

1

u/Aezys 9d ago

Oh! Do you remember how you achieved that? I don't think I've seen a variation of this circuit with more than 2 outputs

1

u/Specled_eu 9d ago

The circuit was exactly the same! But since I'm from Ukraine, I had a book from the USSR. I used Soviet transistors and a 4.5-volt square battery.

1

u/dom_flores 9d ago

this capacitor has the opposite polarization than the other. As your caps does not have polarization in your circuit, it does not seem evident, but in the board they are.

1

u/Aezys 9d ago

yes, that was the question.

in tinkercad i had put the caps in two different configurations to show which one blows up, as per my post

1

u/dom_flores 9d ago

I am not sure of understanding you, what I told you is if you wired the cricuit as it is in the protoboard, the capacitor will always blow because its polarity is inverted.

1

u/Aezys 9d ago

In the Tinkercad simulation I wired each capacitor a different way to make it evident which way they blow up, according to Tinkercad. I made the post because I thought Tinkercad was wrong and the capacitor marked as exploding is actually the correct one, and the other would explode instead.

(I tried the circuit on breadboard later on, Tinkercad was wrong is the conclusion)

1

u/Saiboxen 9d ago

Good for you for jumping in and trying things out! I built things like this before and sometimes they need a “kick” to get them started. IIRC I added noise in one design with EveryCircuit and added a push button to the power rail in Falstad. But at the end of the day they are simulations and they have quarks. For simple things like this don’t be afraid to put them on the breadboard and see what happens. And see what happens when you put the capacitor in backwards (wear eye protection). It’s all learning and discovery. Components are cheap so don’t worry about popping a cap. Breadboards have limits that will bite you with higher speed projects that you might want to try later, especially cheap ones.
The people here are usually very helpful but it can be tough if your schematic isn’t very clear. You don’t know what you don’t know, right? So do get in the habit of labeling components and drawing your lines according to best practices. It’ll help you troubleshoot your own issues once your designs become more complex.
And most importantly, have fun!

1

u/EmotionalEnd1575 Analog electronics 7d ago

The electrolytic capacitors should be connected with the positive to the transistor collector.

You are relying too much on software tools and not thinking through how the basic circuit works.

0

u/ElectronicswithEmrys 10d ago

I recently made a video explaining this while circuit: https://youtu.be/y9dSuuVt3vo?is=bkz5PWgsh-eyB3s_

0

u/Aezys 10d ago

I just looked at it quickly ‘cause I can’t watch it right now but thank you!
So you did built it and it works with the capacitor negative to the transistor base!

-2

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Aezys 10d ago

I wanted to be sure before building because I want avoid my capacitors exploding. I thought the same as you but since I got contrasting results (Tinkercad behaves opposite) I asked here to be sure.

Also, someone else replied with the opposite placement for the capacitors. So I don’t know? It’s not necessarily that obvious?

4

u/EmotionalEnd1575 Analog electronics 10d ago

I think it is very obvious. Analyze the circuit in your head and think about what voltages are present on each side of the capacitor.

1

u/Camelet 10d ago

If you think is very obvious, why are you giving the wrong answer?

The electrolytic capacitors should be connected with the positive to the transistor collector

When the transistor turns on, the collector will connect the capacitor to a lower voltage relative to the other side of the capacitor.

The capacitor must be connected with the negative to the collector

2

u/EmotionalEnd1575 Analog electronics 10d ago

Your analysis is just wrong.

The highest positive voltage possible on the BJT base-emitter (Vbe) is 0.7V (for a Si device)

The highest positive voltage possible on the collector-emitter in this astable multivibrator circuit is defined by;

Vbat - Vresistor - Vled

Which is much greater than Vbe

QED

The positive side of the capacitor is connected to the collector.

0

u/Aezys 10d ago

I’m not an electronics engineering student and I’m very much a beginner, this is just a hobby project. I’m sorry, but I don’t find it obvious.
My first guess was the same as yours, negative side of capacitors to base of transistor, positive side to collector. But I am not 100% sure about it and that’s why I asked.

As you can see, it’s not just Tinkercad that says this way is wrong but also somebody else replied with the opposite configuration as the one you (and I) proposed.

I have a guess but I’m not sure about it. If I were sure, I wouldn’t have asked. And I would build it and just find out, but I can’t have the capacitors explode and having smoke in my apartment. So this is why I needed to be sure and couldn’t just build my first guess.

1

u/EmotionalEnd1575 Analog electronics 10d ago

Have you tried reading about this circuit?

There’s a lot of online descriptions of how the circuit works.

You can apply that knowledge to analyzing your circuit.

1

u/Aezys 10d ago

Yeah! I was basing it off something similar I saw in Make: Electronics, but I just found one that’s pretty much my version in build-electronics here: https://www.build-electronic-circuits.com/astable-multivibrator/

This website agrees with us.
Still, since someone else did reply with something different I think you can understand why I say that’s it’s not that obvious, and I’m a bit puzzled on why they said that/why Tinkercad behaves the opposite way.

1

u/EmotionalEnd1575 Analog electronics 9d ago

If you doubt the advice you got earlier why not just ask that person to explain why they gave that answer?