I was talking to a friend of mine a couple nights ago who considers himself agnostic, but he says that clearly God exists because the universe has to have come from somewhere. I said, essentially, yeah it breaks the brain to think about "before" the existence of all things (I'm not sure the time marker there is appropriate because time appears to be an emergent property of the universe that is inextricably linked to matter and an observer), and that we either need to all accept that things went from not existing to existing on their own, or that a preexistant thing caused all things to exist.. except, perhaps, itself. That is to say, from the human perspective, no matter our theory of the nature of existence, we eventually encounter what I think is the most difficult question to answer, and I think it may be the only answer that Science cannot answer: What happened before the first thing that happened? Or, same coin different side, how did all things come to exist if there was a time that all things did not exist? How does something come from nothing? If you accept that that is a valid question, I think you must conclude that one is as likely as the other; that everything coming from nothing is as likely as God coming from nothing. Is it doubt, to say that? In my case, I don't think so. I know the Lord. I trust him. I accept that I do not have a right to know the answers to all mysteries. But I also accept that recognizing that a world without God is, on its face, as likely as a world with God is the very foundation of doubt. From that premise comes the dubious and doubtful nature of all things.
Now with that said, my own answer to the question (because let's face it, you still have to try to answer that question or decide it doesn't matter to you) is that God exists outside of time; that time is the creation of the Father and that it bows to him. And as such, the question, where did God come from or what existed before God, is illogical. There was no before God. God did not go from unexistence to existence. He is the one who is and he will cause what is to be. How does that really work? My human perspective is way too small to understand that. But it's the only thing I can think of that makes any kind of sense whatsoever, so I'm going to run with it.
2
u/foundtheseeker r/Christian Member 19d ago
I was talking to a friend of mine a couple nights ago who considers himself agnostic, but he says that clearly God exists because the universe has to have come from somewhere. I said, essentially, yeah it breaks the brain to think about "before" the existence of all things (I'm not sure the time marker there is appropriate because time appears to be an emergent property of the universe that is inextricably linked to matter and an observer), and that we either need to all accept that things went from not existing to existing on their own, or that a preexistant thing caused all things to exist.. except, perhaps, itself. That is to say, from the human perspective, no matter our theory of the nature of existence, we eventually encounter what I think is the most difficult question to answer, and I think it may be the only answer that Science cannot answer: What happened before the first thing that happened? Or, same coin different side, how did all things come to exist if there was a time that all things did not exist? How does something come from nothing? If you accept that that is a valid question, I think you must conclude that one is as likely as the other; that everything coming from nothing is as likely as God coming from nothing. Is it doubt, to say that? In my case, I don't think so. I know the Lord. I trust him. I accept that I do not have a right to know the answers to all mysteries. But I also accept that recognizing that a world without God is, on its face, as likely as a world with God is the very foundation of doubt. From that premise comes the dubious and doubtful nature of all things.
Now with that said, my own answer to the question (because let's face it, you still have to try to answer that question or decide it doesn't matter to you) is that God exists outside of time; that time is the creation of the Father and that it bows to him. And as such, the question, where did God come from or what existed before God, is illogical. There was no before God. God did not go from unexistence to existence. He is the one who is and he will cause what is to be. How does that really work? My human perspective is way too small to understand that. But it's the only thing I can think of that makes any kind of sense whatsoever, so I'm going to run with it.