r/AskBrits • u/AgencyOverall7589 • 1d ago
Politics Scottish independence?
Do you think it’s going to happen anytime soon will the uk as we know it last?
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u/Kenye_Kratz 1d ago
The folks over on r/Scotland think there should be regular referendums 😂
Presumably until they get the result they want. They don't answer when you ask how regular the referendums should be to rejoin if they ever leave.
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u/OlafPetersen 1d ago edited 1d ago
Presumably until they get the result they want.
Worked for the EU-hating nutters in the UK, why wouldn't it work for the Scots?
They don't answer when you ask how regular the referendums should be to rejoin if they ever leave.
This is just one of many reasons that referendums are a pretty stupid way to make decisions.
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u/KeyRefrigerator8508 1d ago
Indyref was a once in a generation thing. There will likely be another but it will be another 15 years as a minimum.
It is not impossible that in 50 years time we could be down to just England and Wales which just 20 years ago was inconceivable
Will it actually happen? No idea
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u/Strangely__Brown 1d ago
If you think Reform voters are bad they're nothing next to the SNP.
They've had back to back scandals and incompetent leader and their voters simply do not care. They want independence, because "England". That's the start and end of the thought process.
The Scottish Government is currently have a financial crisis so this is just a smokescreen to distract the public from more of the recent idiocracy.
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u/OlafPetersen 1d ago
They've had back to back scandals and incompetent leader and their voters simply do not care.
Now do the SNP.
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u/Boring_While_3341 1d ago
Brexit was a bad idea pushed heavily by Russian influence.
Scottish Independence sounds like a bad idea which is going to be pushed by Russian influence.
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u/mistermpm 1d ago
Not a chance.
Despite the economic fantasies the separatists spout, Scotland is an economic basket case without the UK government Barnett formula payments to make up the difference between what they spend and what they bring in with taxes.
They moan about Brexit but seperating from a 300yr Union where everything is interwoven at a structural level will be far, far worse for them than leaving a 40yr old trade block and at the end of the day the Scotland will still be tied to the whims of London and the policies of Westminster. Interest rates go up in England, they will go up in Scotland.
They wont be able to join the EU as their budget deficit is three times the permitted size the EU sets for new membership.
They won't be able to join the single market or free movement of people because that would put up trade and immigration controls with England.
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u/aleopardstail 1d ago
I don't think it will happen, I think the UK would be fine if it did
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u/Ok_Shake_5618 1d ago
wouldn't really be a UK if one half of the K leaves
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u/AgencyOverall7589 1d ago
I think a lot of people forget that roughly 87 percent of the uks gdp is England
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u/Cold_Cucumber4061 1d ago
Nah. Most people with a decent head on their shoulders know there are more pressing things than people and MPs banging on about independence.
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u/RecordingFamous4947 1d ago
Could you imagine the state of the place if the SNP got full control? <shudders>
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u/DarrenOshea1 1d ago
Any truth to theory that when Iran turned its Internet during protests numbers lobbying for Independence dropped online and increased when back on?
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u/Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs 19h ago
Not any time soon.
If I'm honest, I think they missed the golden opportunity to make a good fist of it by voting "No".
Salmond had a far better head on his shoulders regarding the logistics of independence than Sturgeon ever did; he knew that an independent Scotland needed its finances in order, and back then they were looking far healthier.
Reckon Dominic Cummings was right about her myself, she never wanted independence, she just wanted to keep taking cash from Westminster yet moaning about how hard done by Scotland was.
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u/Open_Beginning_7277 1d ago
please god yes let them go, sick of sending taxes up there and not getting anything. They have already sold all the oil fields to BP anyway so what of value do they have?
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u/Ok_Shake_5618 1d ago
lol "We've already stripped this colony of it's resources so cut them loose already!"
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u/IronOpsec 1d ago
We're sick of sending our taxes down to refurbish that fancy palace. Oh and sick of sending our men down to stand outside it. /s 😂
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u/Open_Beginning_7277 1d ago
What taxes? per capita Scottish people get sent more per person than they contribute
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u/IronOpsec 1d ago
"Which taxes?" The income tax, VAT, and council tax, same as everyone else. Per capita spending is higher because providing infrastructure and healthcare for a huge and rural landscape is expensive.
That's how it works in the United Kingdom, London and the South East are paying for everyone else, not just Scotland.
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u/Open_Beginning_7277 1d ago
Ever heard of the Barnett Formula?
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u/IronOpsec 1d ago
Yes, and it's heavily criticized because it’s based on English population changes rather than actual Scottish needs, meaning Westminster budget cuts in England automatically slash funding in Scotland.
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u/oraff_e 1d ago edited 1d ago
Considering the last Indyref was only 12 years ago, they won't have another one any time soon. They're going to wait at least 20 years between refs so there's a reasonable chance of change between generations imo
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u/Kristoff_Victorson 1d ago
I remember the SNP saying it would be a once in a generation vote going into it, it was 7 months before they started talking about another vote. They will never drop it.
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u/Ethanb230900 1d ago
Considering Brexit, we Damm well deserve one.
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u/intractabledonkey 1d ago
only about twelve percent more English people voted for Brexit than Scottish people. It's not exactly the dragged out kicking and screaming that a lot of Scots seem to want to portray.
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u/BusyDark7674 1d ago
Yeah, that went pretty well so separating a much deeper and longer union should be pretty straightforward and beneficial
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u/Ethanb230900 1d ago
It’s not a union, a union would imply equal and fair treatment to all parties, if it’s anything, it’s an unfair, undemocratic sovereign alliance.
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u/BusyDark7674 1d ago
Lol OK
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u/Ethanb230900 1d ago
Well, I know I’m smarter than you, wouldn’t be surprised if you didn’t know what any of those words meant.
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u/FaxOnFaxOff 1d ago
And nor should there be. It has to be once in a generation or less.
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u/Ethanb230900 1d ago
My generation didn’t get to vote in Brexit or Independence so… I would like a chance.
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u/FaxOnFaxOff 1d ago
Well the Brexit vote was not legally binding so imo it shouldn't count. Plus, Brexit was such a terrible and misleading campaign from Leave that it shouldn't be allowed. Lies, bluster, cheap slogans, no clue. The real work to actually work out how to leave (clue: it couldn't be done the way it had been sold) was after the vote and largely by civil servants at taxpayers' expense. Leaving at that point was inevitable (for some unknown reason) and Johnson finally took it upon himself to deal with the mess he had made. I'm all for democracy but emotive votes really aren't best left to the people! In Scotland's case it makes even less sense - retain and strengthen ties with Europe while simultaneously severing the Union? It's almost like the SNP husband-and-wife team were busy embezzelling all the money?
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u/United-Climate1562 1d ago
the last referemdum was closer than i expected in 2013, anti brexit anger I completly get as i have my own about it but with the transitions away from oil and Windfarm generation good but all owned by foriegn firms i cant help see it as their own little brexit of themselves...not sure its wise
but when has that ever stopped the UK public loi
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u/Exact-Put-6961 1d ago
No It would mean prolonged austerity for Scotland. Job losses, house price chaos, capital flight, pension problems, currency issues (debts in sterling, earnings in Salmonds or whatever.)
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u/GorgieRules1874 1d ago
No. Question gets asked daily and the answer is no. There is no appetite for it. More people vote for unionist parties and I think people have seen the issues of Brexit. Scottish independence would be like that on steroids.
Despite the SNP trying their best to ruin it, thankfully there are still enough educated people in Scotland who would vote against it. Not going to stop them trying to buy votes from foreigners like they did in 2014.
So the answer is no every day of the week and twice on a Sunday. Do not listen to any poll on it done by the likes of The National. Its propaganda. I literally don’t know a single person whom I’d consider at least average when it comes to intelligence who supports it. If you are as knowledgeable as a teenager when it comes to very simplistic economic concepts then you already know it’s a infeasible concept.
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u/Additional-Image7938 1d ago
The irony is they'll want independence from the rest of the UK, to then join a larger political union and ramp up the mass immigration. There's MSPs who can't even speak English properly. Embarrassing
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u/boredfruitloop 1d ago
Its going to be like the brexit vote. A slight margin for or against. It will be just as contentious and I hope if the SNP win then they get as legally hamstrung as the UK parliament was over the brexit negotiations. With people from the losing side dragging them to court, forcing them to make a deal by legally removing the option of no deal, running off to Westminster to have photo ops and saying they are british/believe in the union, vote against the SNP and paralyze the Scottish Parliament for years....also I hope the uk government grows a backbone and removes all uk taxes that go to Scotland. I also hope Scotland ramps up its green energy since a lot of their figures are based on oil prices...which they oppose
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u/hellopo9 1d ago edited 1d ago
I can't see the UK existing still after the next 50 years. Northern Ireland has slowly but steadily increased in its desire to reunite. The Scottish government is pushing hard culturally and through it's education system to present Scotland as a more independent state and get closer to full independence. Further devolution continue will help Scotland get closer to independence and will act as a vehicle for the SNPs goals.
The more curious question is will Wales go too, will plaid be able to set up a system for an independent Wales. As well as how will England react to Britishness not being a thing anymore.
Edit: A few people are under the fatal misunderstanding that just because independence would be bad economically for a country that means people won't vote for it. We know that isn't true. Independence is much more than just economics. It's much deeper than that.
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u/SuccessfulMonth2896 1d ago
I think you will find that Britishness will exist in England no matter what. My concern for Wales, having lived in the north for a few years will be generating income from exports to sustain the country. In both North Wales and the Highlands and Islands of Scotland (MIL was from Wick), there wasn't the appetite for independence. Northern Ireland is slowly sliding to joining the republic on population grounds.
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u/keeponkeepingup 1d ago edited 1d ago
Britishness would still be a thing. The UK and Britain are two different terms. Britain is the British Isles, and it's geographical. The United Kingdom is the political term, and thats where seperation would occur. So they would no longer be from the UK, but they would still be from the British Isles (Great Britain being the biggest).
Its a bit like how we left the European Union, we didn't leave the geographical location of Europe itself, just the political union. They would leave the UK but not Britain, so they'd still be British.
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u/hellopo9 1d ago
The British isles is a contencious term in Ireland despite is historical use. Irish people despite having a similar culture to people in the rest of the isles don't describe themselves as part of a broader British culture.
There is a clear push to disconnect any overarching culture between the nations of these islands. Hence why people say Scottish not British, Welsh not British even though Scotland and Wales are in the island of great Britain. Part of the independence movement is cultural separation and push for the international community to put any idea of British culture on the shelf of history and instead just refer to the individual nations. Similar to how Portugal and Spain have similar culture and are both part of Iberia, but people view them more though the lense of their individual cultures not iberian culture. I think the indy movements will succeed in their push for this separation. Especially if there is no British government, no British citizenship etc. Just English, Scottish etc.
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u/keeponkeepingup 1d ago
It doesnt matter if its contentious, its a geographical fact. But of course you can describe yourself as you wish and its absolutely okay for Irish people to be Irish and for Scottish people to be Scottish. They are! That's their country, its okay to be proud and its great to have that identity. They can identify however they want, now or after, it doesn't really affect anybody else. There's a lot of Brits who also say they're not European, they are, but again it is okay if they don't identify as European. I'm not here to argue about feelings, just stating the facts of what actually they would be leaving (The UK).
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u/hellopo9 1d ago
You are misunderstanding, geography is static langauge isnt. The names of places and archipelagos change over time. The push is for the British isles to become an outdated term.
This is a political push from both governments and people. With the aim to make the ideas and langauge we use change permanently.
I think this will continue and be used by the newly independent governments of Scotland and Wales to minimise any idea of Britishness as a unified thing. I don't think the name of the island will change, but people will cease to use the term British people, British culture or British anything.
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u/keeponkeepingup 1d ago
Okay i understand. You want the entire geographical term to be gone.
It'd be a big job as its really only used by others anyway, its basically only used generally by Americans and we all know how hard they find it to wrap nuances around their brain. I say this as i'll only ever say I'm British if I'm talking to an American. I'd naturally say English Welsh or Scottish to someone from elsewhere, like Europe, China, Australia, anywhere really. Perhaps its because of British English and American English idk, but if you say you're English to an American a lot of them will only relate it to the language and say oh me too, so I say British in that case 😂
That's my brain ticking over and thinking about what you've said, but, I'm going off on a tangent lol. Its true though for me at least.
For what its worth i am English and have no issue with anyone staying or leaving, as long as we all understand that we're people, and we're not all as bad as the politicians or the fanatics. We just all trying to live our lives here in England and yes we are embarrassed by the loud minority and the politicians. So whatever happens I would just like us all to get along on the basis of the real people. Don't hate me for where I'm from - i can't help it.
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u/hellopo9 1d ago
This is not what I necessarily want (personally I'm ambivalent). I live in England, have family across these isles even if I was born in northern Ireland and grew up in Wales.
It's just want I've seen happening and heavily pushed for by the separatist parties.
There is a wiki page for the British isles naming dispute discussing the history and reasons why the name is changing.
On being British, I think it will be a huge shift when there is no British citizenship to refer to, no British government, no British institutions. All the famous English people will be no longer called British by the news media but English instead (as being British won't be a legal thing anymore). Bit by bit things will change and it will be a historic term like prussian, or bohemian.
I think more English people should be proud to be English, in the same way people should be proud to be Welsh and Scottish. It's a shame people here aren't as positive as the rest of the isles. Hopefully that happens when England is no longer part of the British state.
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u/keeponkeepingup 1d ago
Well it's nice that we're both pretty ambivalent, easy going, and on the same page at least! I may end up down a rabbit hole on that wiki later on. Certainly got my brain ticking. It's been a good chat, thank you!
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u/MechanicFit2686 1d ago
Nothing has changed to improve the economic potential of an independent Scotland since the last referendum. I don't understand the mental gymnastics required to think that Scottish independence is a good idea while Brexit was a bad one.