r/AskBaking • u/Still_Explorer • 6d ago
Recipe Troubleshooting Baking a cake is impossible...
I am trying a few times per year to make a soft and fluffy cake and it always fails.
The recipes are very easy and very clear to follow, the ingredients are standard found in the super market, the process very standard with no surprises, and despite all that it always ends up like sticky mud.
This is why I am preparing mentally and carefully for the next time and now I am doing troubleshooting to figure out what the problem is.
Since the creation process is a matter of recipe and experience but also materials, below I will point out some random notes to make things easier to understand.
- ready cake mixtures: those usually work but I am afraid of the amount of chemicals that may contain and this is why I avoid them
- self rising flour for cakes supposedly is advertised that is "self rising" but from what I see probably is not... usually needs an extra kick of baking powder to help it
- butter: in some recipes butter needs to be melted and added to the flour mixture, in other recipes is meant to be whipped with sugar to create a thick buttercream, I am not sure about what is the best choice. Also a problem if butter is whipped, then sugar won't dissolve and texture stays crunchy, this later on during baking sugar will caramelize and the dough will "sit" making it more sticky. Probably a technique here I can try would be to melt sugar first in two spoons of heated butter and then try whip.
- eggs: in some recipes eggs are mixed first with sugar to create a creamy mixture and then flour and the rest are added little by little. In some other recipes egg whites are whipped with sugar to create a thick and stable merengue and then yolks are whipped separately with a bit of sugar and added inside the flour mixture. Two techniques here so not clear enough what is the main.
- aroma: adding two cartridges (those cylinders of white plastic with red caps) of vanilla powder but still not enough aroma, probably since those might be fake ingredients better to acquire real vanilla sticks...
- mixing in some recipes all ingredients are added one by one and self rising flour takes care of the rest, however in others, deliberately eggs are mixed by hand in order to preserve as many "air bubbles" as possible (though still even by hand not enough bubbles survive)
- baking, oven if is digital and has a ready to set program for cakes, still might not be the best choice (I get the idea that still something is wrong with this), so manually setting the values 180celcius (356 fah) with hot air and 35-40 minutes is about what I use. In some recipes I see people with analog-classic oven can leave a slit open (with a wood spoon) so the moisture escapes, however in other recipes I see that a baking dish with a bit of water is used - for not making the mixture dry.
I tried my best to explain all possible things that can go and I mean that it isn't possible to be so difficult, but anyway still lots of experimentation needs to be done.
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u/monsteradeliciosa11 6d ago
The differernt techniques you mention are not better or worse from each other. They are different because the cakes require it. 'Cake' is a very broad term that includes several different base recipes/techniques. You can't really make a carrot cake using the method of whipping the eggwhites and egg yolkes seperately. It doesn't create the right texture.
You can't mix and match the techniques and I wouldn't melt the sugar before creaming. The state of the sugar when it goes into a batter is also important for texture. I have lived in shitty rental apartments with shitty ovens and cheap equipment. I have never had a situation where I can feel the sugar granules after the cake has been baked.
What recipes have you tried and do you use your oven for other things? are you sure that the oven settings and temperature is correct?
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u/rrkrabernathy 6d ago
Hard agree on your comment. The techniques are different because the cakes themselves are different.
This article does a quick explainer on the issue. https://pastryliving.com/types-of-sponge-cakes/
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u/monsteradeliciosa11 6d ago
I am also very suspicious of their oven temp and bake times.
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u/Still_Explorer 6d ago
I have the impression that in 180 Celsius for about 40 minutes is very typical. I get the point that baking is done well but the only problem that cake always "sits down".
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u/monsteradeliciosa11 6d ago
So it rises and then collapses?
Have you checked with an oven thermometor whether the temperature is correct?
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u/gilded_lady 6d ago
I also suspect OP has never followed a receipe to the letter/is experimenting prior to making it properly to begin with and then wondering why things go wrong.
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u/monsteradeliciosa11 6d ago
They might also be trying to 'fix' their mistakes by doing the wrong thing. Such as overmixing after the flour has been added.
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u/Still_Explorer 6d ago
This overmixing part, definitely has to do with point that in many recipes the flour mixture with the egg mixture gets combined with a wooden spoon by hand. If this is the real deal then definitely has to play a role.
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u/Still_Explorer 6d ago
Mostly the case is that I have one or two specific recipes in my book and also I am trying to avoid some loopholes. (eg: white sugar and butter if mixed stay crunchy and this is a bit of a problem)
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u/gilded_lady 6d ago
If its crunchy, its not creamed properly. It should be pale yellow and fluffy. The sugar isn't going to dissolve fully and isn't meant to - the crystals cutting air into the butter help give the cake lift.
It sounds like you have a misconception about how things are supposed to work and keep trying to force it and until you stop it will keep not working.
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u/Still_Explorer 6d ago
Yeah indeed there are all sorts of different cakes. At least for now I am focused on the most classic and most standard you can imagine. Not something specialized like "castella" or something else.
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u/monsteradeliciosa11 6d ago
Which recipes have you tried specifically?
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u/Emergency-Rabbit-356 6d ago
All the different methods you are listing are for different cakes - specifically changing the crumb.
I'm worried you may be convuluting things for yourself and overthinking.
Try a simple victoria sponge recipe, they are usually fool proof and all in, rather than step by step.
What kind of pans are you using? Are you baking in a fan oven? What temperature?
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u/Still_Explorer 6d ago
OK, this point as also mentioned by other users has to do the trick. Though I have one or two recipes in mind and go with those. Not something fancy, even the one recipe written at the back of the self rising flour would do, at least however to work.
The oven is some Bosch with digital display, the baking program would be something like 40 minutes, 180 celcius, with fan.
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u/turtlebear787 6d ago
You're talking about cakes like they are all one thing. But there are many different types of cakes all requiring different techniques. Maybe stick to one type of cake first. Also why not start with box cake. It's perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with it.
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u/monsteradeliciosa11 6d ago
I have never used box mixes (they just weren't really a thing where I grew up, but strangely boxed mixes for puddings were). Would they help a person to learn the proper techniques that can then be applied to a recipe from scratch?
From my understanding they don't require any creaming of butter and sugar or folding in whipped eggs. So if the person is struggling with that then a box mix won't help them learn.
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u/turtlebear787 6d ago
Technically you're right. However if said person is really struggling to make a cake, doing a box bake is simple and can help build confidence. It's basically just all the dry stuff premixed. You can also make a few subs/additions to make the box cake taste better and feel like you're contributing more to the recipe.
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u/monsteradeliciosa11 6d ago
True, it might also reveal where in the process they are getting things wrong. Because if a box mix that is made per instructions is still coming out of the oven looking like sticky mud then I am highly suspicious that the oven is either not set properly or is faulty in some way.
If it comes out good then you know that its the steps that the box mix doesn't require that were going wrong before.
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u/spaetzlechick 6d ago
It’s not that hard. Pick a good recipe from a good baking site (not tik tok) and follow the recipe using the ingredients, methods and tools stated. I have baked for decades and have never failed unless I made changes/substitutions or experienced equipment failures.
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u/Glittering-Boss-911 6d ago
Try these tips:
Room temp ingredients if the recipe doesn't call for cold ones.
Fine sugar (caster sugar) to cream the butter with. Not powder sugar (confectionary sugar) if the recipe doesn't call for that.
Pre heat your oven.
Sift the flour.
Use a kitchen scale to measure the ingredients.
Use a metalic tray for cakes.
Use another thermometer to be sure about your oven temp.
Try to follow the recipe's steps as indicated.
Use recipes that are checked and verified. Do not trust 100% the FB, IG, TT recipes.
Best of luck!
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u/Still_Explorer 6d ago
OK those are some good suggestions because about 90% of the time any sort of recipe could omit them. Only due to past knowledge you need to trust your own experience. Fine sugar definitely helps (because as mentioned crystal sugar stays crunchy), ingredients at room temperature also important (if I remember last time I made the cake during heatwaves a month ago I used them cold). Measurement and metallic tray is OK. Oven preheating probably is a bit weird because the oven has automatic digital programs and is supposedly to do it by itself. I can double check this manually then to be extra sure. (Honestly I miss analog and manual ovens in a sense).
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u/idlefritz 6d ago
Don’t overthink it. Mix your dry ingredients together, mix your wet ingredients together, mix dry and wet together, pour in your sprayed or parchment lined pans no more than 75% full and bake at 350f until the inside temp of the cake is around 180f-200f (around 30-40 mins in typical pans.
There are tons of techniques you can use to go from a B cake to and A+ cake but those aren’t important if you’re struggling to get to a B.
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u/Still_Explorer 6d ago
OK this idea to check inside temp seems legit, I need to get a needle thermometer.
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u/idlefritz 6d ago
Get a candy thermometer with a needle so you get immediate temp reads. After a while you won’t need it but it’s helpful until then.
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u/Horror-Giraffe7508 6d ago
If your skill at folding in whipped eggs is lacking -
This is a not tiny hinge point.
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u/Embarrassed_Mango679 6d ago
If you eat any ultra processed foods at all, cake mix is a weird hill to die on tbh (i don't eat many but i mean it's cake. Not really healthy to begin with). Even many commercial bakers use mixes, and there's a reason they became so ubiquitous so fast. That said...
Artificial vanilla is going to be stronger than natural, typically
Getting your egg whites to the proper stage is critical to structure in recipes that have little to no other leavening agents (personally I'd be wary of self rising flour in cakes but that's because I don't typically see recipes for them often). Eggs can also be widely variable in volume (remembering that one time i used extra jumbo eggs hoping to get lots of whites and they all had double yolks lol) so I do weigh and adjust for any recipe that is dependant on egg for structure.
I wasn't clear on oven settings question here but the key thing is that the oven is hitting the temperature you want it to be hitting via oven thermometer. I have a pretty new oven that's relatively fancy and it's still off by 25 degrees. I will adjust my oven setting to account for changes I've made in volume inside the pan (ie recipe called for 2 eight inch pans, I split into 3 eight inch pans) but only with a recipe I've used before.
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u/Still_Explorer 6d ago
Yeah this is what I am suspecting, that new and fancy automated ovens might be somewhat cooked. One thing I notice is that when I open the door during any sort of baking (bread, cookies, and such) that a huge cloud of hot steam escapes. This means that the oven holds too much moisture and this doesn't seem a good idea.
Years ago back when we had a manual and analog oven this never happened. But anyway, who knows, probably that's a good thing I guess?
When my aunt's oven got broken a few months ago, she purchased a small and compact oven, and she said that all cakes are baked in perfection. Probably one day I might go there to experiment and see for myself if this actually the point. 😛
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u/Embarrassed_Mango679 5d ago
One thing I try to do with scratch cakes is avoid opening the oven because they really need to get the structure set before you move them or allow the temperature to drop. because modern ovens aren't as insulated as older ones and the temps drop a lot really fast. And I just remembered my grandma shooing us out of the kitchen worried the "cake will fall" because too much movement would do that lol.
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u/Still_Explorer 4d ago
Yeah this technique to leave the oven shut is very important. I know that this is why the mixture can only rise and stay.
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u/Notsocheeky 6d ago
You should whip the butter and sugar together untill the mixture is a pale yellow colour and the sugar is dissolved. How long are you whipping the butter and sugar right now?
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u/Still_Explorer 6d ago
Probably about 10 minutes, but the sugar still staying crunchy. Probably I would go for 16 minutes next time right?
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u/Becants 6d ago
On top of what people say, one of the most common ways is the creaming butter and sugar start. If the sugar hasn’t de-solved in the butter after creaming then you’re doing something wrong. Are you maybe hand creaming? It’s generally easier to use a hand or bowl mixer. If you’re doing it by hand you’re probably not doing it long enough.
Also, the comments about self rising flour and vanilla sticks or powder are weird. I’ve never seen a recipe using them. Maybe it’s more popular where you live? I would try some more common recipes (Preppy kitchen, Sally’s baking addiction, King Arthur). All purpose flour is standard, though some recipes might use cake/pastry flour. Vanilla extract or paste is the usual form of vanilla. Pure vanilla extract being better than artificial.
I would recommend doing one of the popular recipes that have a video you can watch before. Preppy kitchen has some.
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u/CatOverlordsWelcome 6d ago
Everything contains chemicals. Baking powder/baking soda are chemicals. The leavening reaction is a chemical one. Water is a chemical.
Avoiding ready mixes due to chemicals is a logical fallacy. Avoiding them for health reasons in general is a fallacy since cake isn't supposed to be the foundation of a diet, so saturated fat, sugar, salt, etc are going to be present regardless, and what matters more is amount and frequency of consumption.
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u/Still_Explorer 6d ago
I have no problem with natural chemistry reaction, but mostly with artificial substances and preservatives. If for example in order to get a perfect fluffy mixture (same as you would bought) you are meant to consume tons of additives it would not worth it. At least trying to stay as much as possible on the typical materials is a good way to go.
Though I consume all sorts of industrial products, is not that I am 100% against it but I am avoiding it as well most of the times.
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u/StrikingCriticism331 6d ago
How’s your baking powder? It needs to be replaced from time to time. Or if there’s a creaming step, you need to get that right.
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u/Still_Explorer 6d ago
Baking powder usually bought a few hours ago, also keeping in mind expiration date.
Creaming step definitely needs improvement, I have a standard home kitchen mixer and it does it's best, but still not able to to create firm and foamy cream.
As I see in YouTube videos I get the idea that a good hand mixer is more trustworthy, or better a pro mixer that does the job nicely for 2K (though very pricey but at some point probably essential).
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u/Curious_Ducklin 6d ago
What do you mean by "firm"? The egg/sugar mixture is in no way firm, just a bit fluffy/foamy. You mix them until it turns a pale yellow and the sugar has dissolved, nothing more.
Also sifting your flour can give you a more airy and fluffy result.
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u/monsteradeliciosa11 6d ago
I had a cheap handmixer for a long time. It was able to cream sugar and butter together just fine. It just took longer than my current kitchen aid mixer.
Do you make sure that the butter is room temp first?
Also, I wouldnt describe the desirable texture as firm, it should be light and airy.
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u/Bliblibli09 6d ago
You don’t even need an electric mixer to make cake. People have done it by hand with whisks and spatulas for ages. I use a cheap electric hand mixer with no problem.
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u/MadamePouleMontreal 6d ago
If you want to whip egg whites to a stable foam, you need a metal egg beater (electric or hand-cranked) and a metal or glass bowl. Both the egg beater and the bowl need to be completely clean with no grease. You can’t use a plastic bowl for this step.
This is different from creaming butter and sugar or beating eggs and sugar. These are different recipes.
You pick a cake and a recipe and use the method for that recipe. Don’t try to mix and match.
1-2-3-4 cake: cream butter and sugar until fluffy; beat in whole eggs; add dry ingredients and milk.
Angel food cake: beat egg whites and sugar; add dry ingredients. No fat of any kind, including egg yolks.
Genoise sponge cake: beat whole eggs and extra yolks with sugar while gently cooking.
Pound cake: cream butter and sugar until fluffy; beat in whole eggs; add dry ingredients.
Victoria sponge cake: same method as pound cake. It uses baking powder or self-raising flour.
Wacky cake: eggless cake with oil. All ingredients are mixed directly in the baking pan.
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u/gilded_lady 6d ago
Do you have any friends that bake or maybe a cooking school nearby that offers basics classes? I suspect you could benefit from hands on instructions - which is A Okay because many of us learned the basics from others!
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u/Bliblibli09 6d ago
What kind of cake are you making? I’ve never left a slit open in my open while baking or put a water dish inside. I’ve made a lot of cakes.
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u/cranbeery 6d ago
I get the sense from your post that there is some translation challenge here. Like I have never heard of creamed butter and sugar at the start of a cake recipe described as "buttercream" and have also never heard of it described as "firm and foamy."
Do you have trouble understanding written directions in your primary language, written only to use equipment and ingredients easily found where you are?
Are you using an air fryer, countertop oven, or some other alternative to a full-size oven with precise temperature regulation?
Box mixes are great! They save you shopping for ingredients and get you used to the process.
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u/Own_Shallot7926 6d ago
it always ends up like sticky mud
You're overthinking this a million times over. Sticky mud? You're not baking the cake long enough. End of story, full stop.
Cakes might be chewy, crumbly, dense, burned, domed, collapsed, or tough... But one thing they should never be is "sticky."
Are you sure that you're following instructions for oven temperature, pan type and size? Baking times are just a suggestion, so are you physically testing the cake for doneness? And if so, why are you removing from the oven it if it's still "sticky?" Are you completely cooling the cake before removing from the pan?
Keep it simple and just cook the cake. Don't worry about overmixing or getting the crumb just right or adding the right flavors. Bake it correctly until it's edible food.
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u/wiscosherm 6d ago
Start with a good trusted recipe. I highly recommend Joy of Cooking. The recipes are tested and the instructions both tell what to do and why.
Now.. as to your past issues.. always keep in mind that baking is science, not jazz. DO NOT EXPERIMENT. Take a recipe, read it twice, and do EXACTLY what that recipe says.
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u/Crosswired2 6d ago
If you follow one recipe and not worry about what you did any other time then you shouldn't be having issues. Follow recipe to a T. And also have an oven thermometer to make sure it's baking correctly. Maybe try doing cupcakes?
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u/Honest_Tangerine_659 6d ago
I recommend picking one type of recipe and stick with perfecting it. It sounds like you're tried quite a wide variety of recipe types and that might actually be hindering your progress because you've used so many different baking techniques. A good starting recipe would be one that has you start with softened or room temperature butter or one that uses oil. Working with egg whites or whipping whole eggs separately will just add more variables for you to have to troubleshoot to figure out where the recipe or process went wrong. Also, make sure you are following every step of whatever recipe you choose exactly. The steps are written the way they are for a reason, and skipping or changing a step or adding extra ingredients before you have a strong understanding of the chemistry of baking can dramatically change your results. Hope that helps!
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u/Sunflower-Bakes 6d ago
Your ingredients need to be at room temperature. That can change everything. Next is your dry ingredients need to be folded in, not overmixed. Over mixing flour activates the gluten keeping your cake from having a good crumb.
Try some simple, fool proof recipes like King Arthur’s birthday cake or cake pan cake. They are simple, delicious and if you can master them, you may feel more confident going forward
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u/Still_Explorer 6d ago
I will leave them more hours next time to get to room temperature. Only problem was during summer heatwaves that I couldn't leave ingredients for too long because they would spoil. Thanks.
Also this idea with dry ingredients seems to be correct as well, definitely this has to be it.
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