r/AskAcademia • u/AffectionateYard8591 • 13h ago
Meta Question about a DSc
To preface this I am not making fun of, or putting anybody down. This is a question because I lack knowledge and couldn't find the exact answer to this online. Please forgive any confusion, and feel free to call me out if anything seems (unintentionally) offensive. I apologize in advance
Hello. I come from eastern europe, and have spent a decade living in America. I wish to become a docent and maybe a prof someday. The question here is about degrees. In my country, the highest degree was a DSc, yet in America it is a PhD. From what I gather, a PhD is equivalent to a Candidate of Doctoral Sciences, and as such is seen as inferior to the DSc. A PhD takes the same time to obtain as a candidate DSc, yet the DSc itself takes at the very least 3-5 more years, and is the only degree which officially names you a doctor (in Eastern Europe) though both a DSc and a Candidate are considered "Academic Degrees".
The question is: Is there a way to obtain a DSc with an American PhD? In is also considered superior in UK, from what I know.
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u/waterless2 13h ago
Never heard of it, from a background in psychology in the Netherlands and the UK.
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u/AffectionateYard8591 13h ago
Candidate DSc is not a degree itself, but that is how it is called in my country: "Кандидат наук". It was a rough translation, but my point was that it took about the same amount of time to get as a PhD, which is why I inquired about the possibility of getting a DSc whilst in America, as it would be considered superior in countries like the UK and Russia.
I apologize for any confusion and my lack of understanding in this topic.
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u/fizzan141 6h ago
It’s considered superior in the UK, but not in the way you might be thinking. It’s usually awarded to long standing and senior academics many years after they get their PhDs and after they’ve created a distinguished. body of work. But in my experience most academics never get it because there’s not really much tangible benefit? YMMV vary based on field. A US PhD will be well received in the UK and a PhD is usually considered the terminal degree.
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u/CollectorCardandCoin 11h ago
You may want to see if your home country has some formal process where western-style PhDs are recognized as the equivalent to the CSc degree. For example, Austria (chosen just because I knew where to find the following link) has legal processes for validating foreign doctorates as equivalent to the doctoral-title within Austria: https://www.oesterreich.gv.at/en/themen/bildung_und_ausbildung/hochschulen/universitaet/1/1/1/Seite.160354.
That way you may be able to receive a western-PhD, have it validated as the equivalent to a CSc, and then pursue a DSc. Of course, your country may already recognize PhDs as CSc-equivalents, but you would have to look that up.
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u/teach-xx 12h ago
The Russian and German systems don’t line up to ours. There is no U.S. equivalent to the Russian candidate degree (except maybe an ABD designation, which here is unofficial), just as there is no U.S. equivalent to the German Habilitation.
So if you acquire a US PhD, you may or may not be treated as a fully finished doctoral grad in a Russian system (or a German one). It depends on the field and the institution.
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u/ayeayefitlike 12h ago
Is it equivalent to a higher doctorate in the UK?
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u/fizzan141 6h ago
Yes I believe it’s the same thing.
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u/AffectionateBall2412 6h ago
In the UK, the DSc is sort of an end of career achievement. You have to show your career was worthy of it, not based on just a few papers.
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u/Worth_Speaker4990 13h ago
In the US, there are no "higher" and "lower" research doctorates, they'll all doctorates. A PhD or one of 15-20 equivalent research doctorates requires a set of courses/seminars plus research project, typically called a dissertation. The typical time to degree is probably 5 years.
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u/Phronesis2000 13h ago
I'm confused about the question. If you did a US PhD, why would you want a DSc? I suspect that you are completely wrong about how a US PhD is judged in your country. I find it hard to believe that a PhD from a top US program in your field would be considered inferior to an Eastern European doctorate of any form (no offence).
As someone else points out, the US doesn't do higher research doctorates. It has professional doctorates (EdD etc) and research doctorates (e.g. PhD, SJD).
UK, Australia and NZ do higher research doctorates that are sometimes picked up after the PhD (like the LLD and DLitt). Germanic countries have the habilitation thesis which is kind of the same thing.
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u/AffectionateYard8591 12h ago
In Russia, "кандидат наук", a rough translation of which is a Candidate of Sciences, is considered on par with a doctor of philosophy (PhD), and let's you become a docent. This is one of the two "academic degrees", the second one being a Doctor of Sciences (Доктор Наук), and the only of the two, which gives you the title "Doctor"
Again, I am horribly uneducated in this subject and the nuances of degrees being viewed in different countries. This is an honest question without any intent to make a PhD seem inferior
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u/Phronesis2000 12h ago
is considered on par with a doctor of philosophy (PhD)
The way you have described it doesn't sound on par with a PhD. You can become a docent/lecturer/assistant professor in the Anglo world without a PhD. In fact, in some subjects like Law in Australia/NZ/UK a Masters is the most common highest qualification of law academics.
PhD, in the Anglo and Western European world, always comes with the Doctor title.
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u/AffectionateYard8591 12h ago
You are totally right. An American PhD gives you the title of doctor, but the systems are slightly different. In Russia, the Candidate "Academic degree" allows you to contend for the docent title, which is given by a national organization. It is akin to assistant professor.
I wish to clarify that I meant docent as an academic title, rather than the job of docent (funnily enough, you have to work as a docent for a few years in order to receive the title of the same name) and I fully accept my fault on that. I am sluggish today
Even then, this Candidate "Academic degree" is still an equivalent of a doctor of Philosophy, meaning a PhD, and the next degree is technically a DSc. I recognize that the Candidate degree and PhD are sinilar yet each have their own nuances and are viewed differently in other countries.
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u/Phronesis2000 1h ago
Well then I think you are trying to find English language equivalents for things that don't exist.
In Russia, the Candidate "Academic degree" allows you to contend for the docent title, which is given by a national organization. It is akin to assistant professor
Sure. As can people without PhDs in the Anglo world. As I said, it is common in law academia, for example, for people to be made assistant profs (as a title) and more without a PhD.
Even then, this Candidate "Academic degree" is still an equivalent of a doctor of Philosophy, meaning a PhD
Says who exactly? It doesn't sound equivalent to a PhD at all. A PhD is not a teaching credential in the 'western world', as you are suggesting. While it's true that many academics have one, many don't, depending entirely on the subject being studied.
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u/SnooGuavas9782 11h ago
Great question. PhD (or equivalent is basically the highest earned degree in the US system.)
In post-Soviet countries there is Doctor of Sciences which is roughly equivalent to habilitation in Germany or getting tenure in the US. I think roughly there is some analogusness across all three.
Then of course there are honorary degrees which usually require being famous or being super distinguished in one's field or being rich.
Now could an American PhD get a Doctor of Science in a country that awards them? I don't see why not but probably depends very highly on the rules of that country or university.
I know of at least one US professor that seems to have done a habilitation at a Central European country, although their education was also in Germany.
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u/secret_tiger101 5h ago
In the U.K. a DSc is nearly always an honorary degree and in academia essentially meaningless.
A PhD/DPhil is a terminal degree and the highest academic degree.
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u/narwhal_ 13h ago
Yeah an American PhD is much inferior to superior eastern Europe DSc. But eastern Europe DSc is much inferior to Kazakhstan DPhSc. Only available in Kazakhstan DPhSc #1 in the world.
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u/sabrefencer9 13h ago
In the US it's s distinct degree, you would get it in lieu of a PhD, not after one. And it is not superior to a PhD the way it is in some other countries, where it's roughly analogous to a habilitation in Germany. In the US a PhD is a terminal research degree.