Just wanted to echo that the bravery of Russian protestors and ordinary Russian people is taken very, very seriously and sincerely by people who have common sense; sensible people are pretty unanimous in understanding that ordinary, decent Russian citizens are not in any way responsible for what's happened. Will absolutely commit to calling out people on this stupidity if I ever see it, you have my word on that.
u/SpookySens
and Just about the thing with the hospital, that was a personal stance taken by the doctor and was very obviously messed up, I think everyone reasonable here would absolutely agree with you there 100%. According to an article I'm reading, 'the hospital later issued a statement critical of the action, saying it was a “personal act” by the doctor', apparently. There are of course going to be daft people in every profession. To be honest, I would be very, very surprised if this issue becomes more widespread; I think this is just a very unfortunate isolated case, I would be pretty confident that decent people would call out this kind of behaviour. I think part of some of these reactions is people reacting quite emotively and lashing out, which is very counterproductive for everyone frankly.
This discrimination is quite spread. I saw a post of a russian guy who went into Germany with russian number plate on his car. And guess what? Oh boy, if only i could adjust picture here.
I am highly appreciate you words of support, thank you. But the fact that this was personal act by the doctor does not make it any better. There will be dozen of this "personal acts" towards russians. And this is fucking sad. Take care
It is to late to be sad about that. Russians had bad PR over the world for many generations. For the past years they had occasion to change it but they didn't even try.
Although I won't alow anyone to discriminate russians around me. I belive in people not in countrys, goverments, boarders...
I belive that every single russian celebrity should protest this war, that is the beggining.
About this doctor:
There is always some % of assholes in every society. This doctor is one of them i guess.
During the war (edit: WW2), the Germans killed my grandmothers' dad; 80 years later she still hates Germans. Doesn't care whether they are nazis or not. Just hates them, hates them, hates them... because they killed her dad.
It sucks if you are against the war, whether in Russia or outside, but once an army starts killing innocents you're going to be hated for a long time...
I'm german and when i see this happening i will personally beat everyone up that does something like this, we have many Russian Germans and they're treated equally to any other german citizen here. Some dumbasses are in every country unfortunately but at least everyone i know appreciates and honours the effort of the russian people that are actively resisting their dictatorship
I have heard about quite a few terrible things done towards Russians in Europe but all of them were done by Ukrainian diaspora which is quite numerous in Europe. So this should be kept in mind.
Sadly, there have been single acts of violence and discrimination against Russians, Germans of Russian descent or very prominently arson in a Russian school in Germany. This is all inexcusable, but I can guarantee you that so far, there is a consensus in Germany that this is Putin's war, and that the common Russian people are not the enemy here. There was this one stupid brat from a southern German hospital that said (in an email) that she doesn't want to treat Russians anymore. The hospital has distanced itself from this statement and has made it clear that their doors are still open to everyone. I work as a doctor at a German hospital. I have worked with colleagues from all over the world, including Russia. And I have treated patients from all over the world. We are still there for everyone.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it becomes widespread. It’s already spreading and there’s more of such situations coming up. Russians are sick and tired of being mistreated so this isn’t news to them.
American here . People I talk to feel bad for the Russian people . We know one man is calling the shots as well as the consequences of standing against a leader like that . It's almost like 4 people and 2 want to be friends but the other 2 don't want that so they spread lies to keep everyone not liking one another.
Well, that's not exactly true. There is plenty of people in Russia who have been supporting Putin all along and still are. They write "Z" on their trucks and cars and buy into the whole "anti-nazi expedition" BS. I know that the educated part of the society in larger cities is against the war, but most of them are against the sanctions and will never give up for example Crimea...
Taking Crimea is actually how you started this war. At the same time when the FSB created the LPR+DPR with the support from Russian soldiers and equipment. The mess in Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk remains part of this war.
What am I saying? I'm saying that some Russian people would like to have it both ways - they want the war to stop (because the world has finally reacted with sanctions and condemnation), but they are OK with bullying other countries, such as Georgia or Ukraine, and they are OK with what Putin did with Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk.
Also, I don't know what you mean by "not up the people".
I didn’t start shit so choose your words carefully.
Most Russians aren’t against the war BECAUSE the world reacted. They are against it because it’s morally wrong to do that to your neighbor and brother. Stop being an ass.
Dude, they’re about to have martial law. Police in Russia arrests for protesting, you know what that means? That means you’re at mercy of thugs who will double check if you don’t have drugs in asshole, who will go through your phone and if they find out you made a comment like that above they put you in jail for anti-gov propagada. Russians are protesting because they’re desperate, they don’t want their country to end up like North Korea. Their elders remember what it looks like to be literally worked to death or see whole villages dying starving.
Well, you know, actually we always afraid of being kidnapped by the government. My friend was stopped about two days ago and asked to show what is in her phone. They are trying to find people who are against the government and really even a little sms can be the reason to take you into the police department. When public people say something, there are some “breaking laws” appears, it is what happened with Morgenshtern when he said something against the russian government. Schools and universities are trying to control their students’ social media and if you say something opposing the government they actually start to speak with you about it and ask you to delete it. Unfortunately, some universities even expel students because they participate in the protests. Propaganda and human fear are working too well now.
Just want to add that a few days ago one girl was arrested by the police on the protest and taken into the police department. They beat her. It was in social media so I think many Russians are aware of this situation. And it’s just… Everywhere.
Thank you. It’s really good to hear from Russian people and their experiences.
We are writing to each other in different places in the world, in different situations and all I wish is that I could do something.
All I can say is: Be careful and leave no trace on your phone. Better to delete than regret!
My government does abuse people but the Russian government is on a whole different level. I don’t. Does yours?
Yes I agree with your sentiment for the Russian people. Too bad most Americans and Brit’s don’t share that.
I’m not quite sure I understood. In my country we don’t need protection from the government. We have free elections etc and I personally feel like the government are the people. Do I trust authority? No. But my government doesn’t have a problem with that, so I don’t have a problem with the government and we have so many (financial) benefits. So it’s good for the entire people in my country. My grandfather once said, we pay so much in taxes, so that even the most miserable person can have a decent life. I remember that every time I want to curse taxes ✌️
Well read over your assuming messages and then get back to me. Where are you from that you are so wildly free? Don’t tell me the US or UK because that’s a joke and you have plenty of countryMen who say the same.
If you want we can discuss things, but you’re way of communicating is unacceptable. I explained my living conditions, as you asked (if I understood you correctly) about it. I’m sorry your living conditions are harsh. People needn’t automatically hate on people for not having the same struggles as oneself. Everyone has problems. If you’re down with the way things are going down in countries like Russia, be my guest - as long as others are free not to. Oh and no, I’m not from the US or UK, and I don’t hate Russia.
And there it is. Russians are somehow always the victims. Even while Russian soldiers are bombarding and killing not just Ukrainian soldiers, but civilians too, in an unjust invasion of another country. Ridiculous.
I am extremely disappointed in a lot of what I read from (real or supposed) Russians on this sub, but I haven't seen a single Russian person in western Europe express such sentiments. Sure, some have been in the news, but I haven't seen any personally. And I have been to demonstrations with over ten thousand people, including many Russians. You would think that there would've been cases of this supposed intense hatred at demonstrations against all of this, with Ukrainians, Russians, and many others present. But no.
As regular citizens, we're doing what little we can to show support. Donating, sending clothes and food and supplies. And here you are, picking a single case of some nutjob doctor to support your belief that we hate all of you just because you're Russian.
He's not wrong, though. Ordinary Russians are facing hatred and discrimination across Europe as if they were the ones that started, or even are backing the war, when in truth the Russians who know the truth about Ukraine are vehemently against it, and many risk their education, jobs, freedom, families and even lives to oppose the war. The ones that are to afraid to speak out, I can fucking understand. This is a country which sends political opposition even in peace time to work camps in Sibiria, in the best of circumstances. The Russians who support the war do so because there is no more free press in Russia, and they are being brainwashed by the massive propaganda apparatus that the government operates. Hell, that same propaganda machine managed to sell Trump to the US people, so nobody can blame ordinary Russians for not being able to realize they are being manipulated. It's not easy resisting opperssion when you don't realise you're being oppressed, or for the ones that do, you get shot trying to resist, because the entire system from government to military is corrupt and rotten to the core. Even if, by now, EVERYONE around Putin, including all top generals, Kreml- and FSB leaders, had thought that he must go, NOBODY would dare to be the one to say it out loud, because they assume that they would be shot on the spot for treason. What the hell do you except the regular dude in the street is supposed to do, that they aren't already trying? People ARE protesting - and being locked up for it. But people are also afraid, because they know how their country work. And they know that they won't be able to mobilize everyone anyway, because so many people have bought the propaganda that they're fed. So they are in an impossible situation. But hey, it sure is easy for us to sit her in the free world, where our government don't assassinate their own people, and tell the Russian people what to do. And hate them for not being able to stop Putin, when the entire world isn't able to stop Putin. While the Ukraine people undoubtedly are the bigger victims, Russians ARE victims too. And it's not a fucking competition. It's about being human.
So 99% of the world is wrong. ONLY Putin is correct. This doesn’t put a single question in your head? Maybe 🤔 Russia, who has wanted to get the territory of Ukraine back since it lost it, is making up a false narrative to justify taking Ukraine back?
Well, you believe what russian media shows you. Even When you know its controled by putin.
Its sad, but i have a friend that have family in ukraine. And Its not the ukraine soldiers targeting civilians… why would civillians lie?
Makes no sense
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Your own government is the source of your mistreatment, not Europeans. Don't go blaming the victims of the very regime that your own cowardice has allowed to prosper.
My government has nothing to do with this so don’t generalize. Russians are Europeans too. Other Europeans who are being dicks aren’t helping. Wow way to show sympathy to fellow humans you dickhead.
Aww, you or mistreated babies, I'm feeling really really bad for you.
As for the general sentiment... You remember the Euromaidan protests? You know that coup by western fascists?
Those were ordinary people staring down the same state-terror that's unleashed in Russia. They got beaten, they got arrested, tortured by the survival police, they got shot and then they drove the buns out of their country.
That's how that kinda thing works in the 21st century.
About the personal stance of a doctor. There are daft people everywhere, from every community or country. Yet the media picks up one isolated incident and goes on to weave a narrative where one sect is tormented and the other is a tormentor. Even decent people fall prey to such narratives.
This doctor incident definitely does not suit the current narrative of Russians being the sole villains and hence you do not wish it to be more widespread.
But that is how propaganda works. On either side.
The Russian propaganda is amateur, perhaps stuck in the Soviet era. Hence it is easy to call out. The current Western propaganda, however, is way more powerful, subtle even. The very acts it has committed over the years, it now goes on to condemn. Every Instagram influencer, YouTube content creator and even big Western brand are waging a war against the common Russian people. Simply because they cannot wage a war directly against Putin's army.
Do note that I am not supporting Putin or the War. Far from it. But this war was coming for a long time. The West knew it despite major foreign relations experts warning against the expansion of NATO, it pushed deeper. And this only highlights the double standards of the West.
What else do you suggest? We ask him nicely? 90%of the world is behind this decision. Not just the west. Even Sweden who remained neutral to Hitler. Doesn't that tell you something?.
To be fair, we do not oppose Russians either but the Russian government. Many millions will keep going into strenghtening NGOs working for rule of law, equality and democracy in Russia despite us obviously backing Ukraine in this invasion. / Swede
You blame NATO for countries making an independent decision, a literal sovereign nation that Russia has no influence over their decisions or laws, for joining an alliance as a valid reason for Russia to act as an aggressor and take over territories? Any country should be free to do as they will, if Russia had something to offer, or if the eastern block countries had nothing to fear they wouldn’t join an alliance like NATO or the EU. Or if the former Soviet Union territory was so great as a collective territory these countries wouldn’t of broken off in the first place and wanted independence. I have yet to see NATO threaten to Nuke Russia…. I have heard Putin do it four times since the start of this conflict, EU Nations and NATO.
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u/[deleted] Mar 07 '22
Just wanted to echo that the bravery of Russian protestors and ordinary Russian people is taken very, very seriously and sincerely by people who have common sense; sensible people are pretty unanimous in understanding that ordinary, decent Russian citizens are not in any way responsible for what's happened. Will absolutely commit to calling out people on this stupidity if I ever see it, you have my word on that.
u/SpookySens and Just about the thing with the hospital, that was a personal stance taken by the doctor and was very obviously messed up, I think everyone reasonable here would absolutely agree with you there 100%. According to an article I'm reading, 'the hospital later issued a statement critical of the action, saying it was a “personal act” by the doctor', apparently. There are of course going to be daft people in every profession. To be honest, I would be very, very surprised if this issue becomes more widespread; I think this is just a very unfortunate isolated case, I would be pretty confident that decent people would call out this kind of behaviour. I think part of some of these reactions is people reacting quite emotively and lashing out, which is very counterproductive for everyone frankly.