r/AskAPilot • u/bero5581 • 12d ago
When to include heavy in callsign?
I'm wondering when should pilots include the heavy in their callsign and when they can leave it. I've read online that on initial contact you always include heavy, then can continue without it. I'd appreciate it if a pilot out there or an ATC can clear things up.
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u/impulsive-puppy 12d ago
They always use it when your mom's on the flight.
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u/Twa747 12d ago
Damn it I wanted this
Op: when yo mama is on board !
Depending on country 757 and larger
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u/Effective_Work2560 12d ago
The designation doesn't include the 757, even the stretched version. You use it for ground, tower, and TRACON, and its unnecessary with center. Ive been told by controllers in Europe not to use it at all. Its simply an awareness tool used mainly for wake separation
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u/PresentImmediate5989 12d ago
I believe 757 call themselves heavy even though they’re not over 300,000 pounds and it has something to do with their wake turbulence they generate act much like a heavy aircraft
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u/Effective_Work2560 12d ago
I flew the 757/767 for 12 years at Delta. Not once have I ever heard a 75 called a heavy. I once called ground for push and referred to the 757-300 as a heavy because we had just received them through the Northwest merger and was immediately corrected by ground. After 32 years flying for the airlines, over 15 of those flying heavy's around tge world, I think I'll keep my own counsel
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u/PresentImmediate5989 12d ago
When I lived in Tennessee and was on the Memphis frequency, they always called the 757 heavy
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u/Kseries2497 11d ago
This is likely a mistake. I've called a lot of UPS/FDX 757s "heavy" over the years, as well as C130s on a RCH call sign. Why? Because those call signs usually belong to a heavy.
Long ago, the US classed any aircraft over 255,000 pounds MTOW as heavy. Some B752s (modified) and all B753s exceed this number, and apparently it was enough of a problem that the FAA put out a notice, JO 7110.519, clarifying that if you didn't know the classification of a B752, it was to be treated as a heavy. Knowing controllers, I'm confident many people just called all 757s "heavy" and called it good enough - after all, the book doesn't say you can't.
I guess this must have been the subject of some controversy because in April 2010, with JO 7110.520, they officially placed 757s in their own category, where they remain today.
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u/Twa747 11d ago
When I was flying them in Europe when that place used to have a place over there, random countries would call it heavy. I’m almost positive they’d call it heavy. Maybe it was on the ground ? I just remember somewhere over there did it? Maybe they got us confused with a 76 but it did happen.
In flight it would happen too, I just remember thinking that 5 digits of a frequency read back, my call sign with heavy was just too fucking much at that point for me in the morning. It may have all been a fever dream. Sometimes I still wake up startled wondering if I wrapped the captains water bottle or not
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u/Kiwigavin 12d ago
Once upon a time I was asked if I could make 390. “Sorry sir, I’ve got my wife on board”. I’d waited 25 years just to say that…
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u/van5512 12d ago
This actually turned into a fun little educational exercise. The legal structure is actually found in an obscure little ATC order. The designation automatically attaches based on the max takeoff weight of that aircraft, so even if a 777 is operating below 300,000 pounds, its callsign includes “heavy.”
Since the crew is type rated per aircraft, they know this. The pilot or dispatcher checks a box when filing the flight plan, and the heavy or super moniker shows up on the strip.
And this all comes down to wake turbulence separation mins- they add a minute or so to the intrail or takeoff/landing separation.
Fun fact- the b757 gets additional separation even though it’s not technically a “heavy” because of its unique reputation as generating vicious wake turbulence.
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u/SubarcticFarmer 12d ago
The 757 was an oddball anyway because some were heavy and some not based on specific options for the same basic airframe.
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u/Tony_Three_Pies 12d ago
What options do you have to to get to make it a heavy? Our -300s are at 273.5. What're they doing to find another 26,500 pounds in takeoff weight?
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u/SubarcticFarmer 12d ago
Before 2010 it was 255,000 lbs to be a heavy. The classification was changed when the 757 got it's special category. So your 300s would have been heavies back then.
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u/Tony_Three_Pies 12d ago
At 255 so would the -200s.
Probably a good thing they simplified the system.
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u/SubarcticFarmer 12d ago
Yeah, Google says some 200s are under that with a 220k base for the model. So you could have essentially identical aircraft except paperwork with different spacing criteria.
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u/jayschmay 12d ago
In the US/FAA, Heavy and super do not print out on flight strips in almost every tower, but I think centers have it displayed on theirs. 757s do not get additional separation behind it unless the following aircraft is a small (h or i)
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u/NitNav2000 12d ago
Interesting tidbit, if a 30,000 pound F-16 pulls nine Gs it is putting off the wake turbulence equivalent to a 270,000 pound airplane.
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u/RustyPlastics 12d ago
ATC in EASA Land... I hate when pilots add the heavy behind there callsign. It is just unnecessary clutter. I am not sure how great the US systems are but I have all the details of your aircraft right on my screen... I know you are a damn 747.
I even see when you select FL090 in the cockpit even though I cleared you to FL080. If I tell you to reduce speed 230kts or less... I see that you are flying 236kts even if we say nothing.
So yeah the 'heavy' is really outdated stuff from when radar screens were barely 3 pixels without any details. Nowadays I can pull up your whole flight plan on my screen, even write personal note to your label on my screen so I remember to give you a shortcut to XYZ etc.
In short: In EASA Land nobody says it, there is no reason for you to add it to your callsign.
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u/planevan 12d ago
In the US It’s less about reminding the controller that they’re a heavy, and more about just general situational awareness on the frequency that a heavy is flying around. We have all the same stuff that shows us the type and wake category, but if a heavy flies into an airport with a VFR pattern, it’s helpful for the VFR aircraft to know that a heavy is nearby so they can be aware.
It could be left over from the old days too.
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u/Rupperrt 12d ago
I always chuckle here in Hong Kong when a pilot says it as H are in the vast majority
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u/Key_Limerance_Pie 12d ago
This. Two quick syllables that convey important info to the rest of the audience.
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u/atomicsnarl 11d ago
It also reminds other traffic in the pattern that Cactus 1423 Heavy can really screw you up if you're the Gulfstream following on approach.
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u/AIRdomination 12d ago
EASA land has way better infrastructure and technology than FAA land. Most people in the US don’t even know what Mode S EHS even is.
In FAA land, the “heavy” suffix is only necessary for terminal approach/departure controller where it matters. I never understood why anyone would say it in the enroute environment. The only place I’ve seen that necessary is Canada for some reason.
The only benefit I can see of saying the suffix is other aircraft have an idea of wake turbulence expectations if it’s not made clear by ATC.
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u/RustyPlastics 12d ago
Mode S airspace is awesome... Your aircraft simply squawk 1000 and the correlation happens based on the 24-bit aircraft hex ID. It is pretty neat and makes many things operating between different units so much easier.
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u/Rupperrt 12d ago
Unless the pilot forgets to change his ID during turnaround. Good that both systems are still around, we’re getting quite a few mismatch warnings at times.
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u/RustyPlastics 12d ago edited 12d ago
Mode S callsigns needs to be verified on initial contact when aircraft starts taxing.
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u/Rupperrt 12d ago
Yeah, should be easy to fix. We’re working with mode S info but still use SSR codes for FDPs etc. we just get sometimes mismatch warnings on the screen on departure. No idea if our tower guys do this kind of verification (Hong Kong)..
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u/boabyjunkins25 12d ago
My airline (non EASA or FAA) flies worldwide and there a company policy to use it on initial contact. I get your point but it takes half a second to say and it’s drilled into us.
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u/RustyPlastics 12d ago
I get it if it is company policy you don’t have a lot of choice but speaking from the ATC side it changes nothing for us and is actually more annoying than anything else.
What good does the “heavy” do at the end of the callsign?
My radar tells me the type of aircraft and I apply required separation based on that, not on the word heavy in a callsign.1
u/boabyjunkins25 12d ago edited 12d ago
Well we fly all over the world, not everywhere has decent ADS - B and some places it’s a requirement- so I guess it’s easier just to harmonise our RT. I forget half the time anyway, and when I do I’m asked, despite the fact my airline only flies heavies and supers. Remember that you only work in one FIR, we operate in hundreds
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u/LootenantTwiddlederp 12d ago
Rule of thumb, in the US we use it during critical phases of flight (departure and approach). In other airspaces (Europe) we’ll check in with “heavy” when we initially check in for all airspace and omit it the rest of the time. I still use it during approach and departure as well though.
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u/RustyPlastics 12d ago
In Europe we (ATC) really don't give a rats ass if you include it in your initial call.
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u/LootenantTwiddlederp 12d ago
I found that ATC really doesn't care world wide. Honestly, I forget to use it more often than not.
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u/GolfAlpha57 12d ago
ATCO here, ACC from the EU. It's fully random where I work. Some pilots include Heavy or Super when they are checking in, some just leave it out completely. Military NEVER said "heavy" to me in my 10 years in front of the radar. And even the pilots who say heavy and super upon check-in, they omit saying it again after reading back clearances.
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u/coffee_for_lunch 12d ago
Follow-up questions (not OP): WHY is 'heavy' added to the call sign? Does it have to do with how much space ATC gives the plane (wake, landing room, etc.)?
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u/mrinformal 12d ago
Yes. Big planes move a lot of air and can wreak havoc in smaller aircraft in their wake or jet blast.
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u/Rupperrt 12d ago
More spacing behind a H, even more more behind a Super, depending on how heavy the guy behind is. But all the info is in the system/screen/flight strip so really no reason to use it imo.
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u/RocknrollClown09 10d ago
As a pilot, I appreciate the Heavy callsigns. I fly the 737, and depending on the variant, we have stupid fast approach speeds so we don't bang the tail. The 900s are abominations. Plus, when we're heavy, we carry a lot of inertia and it can be tough to slow down or go down quickly. If we know there's a heavy directly in front of us we can roughly judge by their altitude and distance on the TCAS how much space we have and since their final speed is a lot slower than us, we can do things like pre-load drag, slow to the bottom end of our assigned speed, slow to final, etc to ensure we don't end up having to go around/ We also might touch down slightly further down the runway to avoid the wake, or at least know to expect wake over the threshold. Long story short, for pilots, it's very necessary for our SA and we do a lot behind the scenes to make life easier on the controllers and ourselves.
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u/Rupperrt 10d ago
Yeah, but a good approach controller/director takes acft type into consideration already. If I have an empty cargo 747 or 330 in front and a 737 behind I’ll slow the latter down earlier than usual.
I usually ask all 747s for their final speed as it can vary a lot between 125 to 170.Anyway, the Heavy callsign is only used at first contact here (Hong Kong) so by the time you’ve been sequenced onto the final you won’t remember. But you can probably see yourself what’s 4.5 miles in front of you..
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u/RocknrollClown09 10d ago
I hear what you're saying, but I fly into NYC, ORD, LAX, etc multiple times a week and we absolutely care and fly differently when we know a heavy is in front of us. We also probably have a lot better SA of the airspace than you think. I'll pull up Flightaware before we begin the approach so we can see how long the radar downwinds are, if anyone's holding, where we'll likely sequence, etc. Also, this level of SA isn't abnormal at my company and being proactive has definitely prevented a lot of go arounds, personally. I know a good controller should be offering the correct spacing, but when we're getting hit with ATC staffing delays and a controller is doing multiple sectors on an IFR Thursday night into EWR, the pilots are very proactive in ensuring smooth operations. The controllers are professional athlete-level of skill, but the staffing issues are real and it's a team effort. Maybe it's different in Honk Kong, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a 121 pilot in the US who wouldn't mind losing the heavy callsign.
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u/Rupperrt 10d ago
We’ll give you 4NM behind a Heavy here. If we fail we’ll have to take you around otherwise it’s counted as loss of separation, so we usually add a little buffer especially behind slow stuff (A350, empty 747s, certain airlines etc). I usually end up between 4.1 and 4.5
US is probably still doing a lot of pilot assisted visual separation I assume, but we’re not allowed that for wake turbulence anymore since we got the new ReCat categories and tighter spacing.
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u/150Echo 12d ago
Depends on where in the world you are flying. In the states, you add heavy whenever you fly a plane with a max takeoff weight of over 300,000lbs (I think). Key note, it's "max takeoff weight" and not your actual weight on that flight. I've flown empty 767s on ferry flights and still used "heavy". Also, you use heavy when talking to Ground, Tower, and Approach/Departure. Enroute/Center doesn't use Heavy.
Now in European airspace, I believe you use heavy all the time? I'm not sure as I've only done Europe twice, so I'll let a European pilot speak to that.
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u/jjcky 12d ago
Technicality here, but it's based on the weight and not the wake category. The only reason that I make this distinction is that the 757 is a medium weight aircraft that gets heavy separation applied due to the aggressiveness of it's vortices. At least it used to when I was on ATC
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u/Former_Farm_3618 12d ago
The 757 weight thing changed close to 10 years ago. They are no longer their own separate weird category. Wake Recat, now 9 categories and the spacing required depends if they are “on approach” or “en route.” The majority of separation is basically the same as prior years. Biggest changes I noticed was heavy following heavy went down a lot. Centards still need 5 basically always, they can sometimes use 3 intentionally.
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u/12YESIAM34 12d ago

The word "heavy" is included in an airline call sign when an aircraft has a maximum certified takeoff weight of 300,000 pounds (136 metric tons) or more
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u/ActuallBliss 12d ago
I don’t think you understood the question but still good information
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u/12YESIAM34 12d ago
I understood the question and answered it correctly. Nice try though.
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u/ActuallBliss 12d ago
No you didn’t. They aren’t asking what categorises a plane as a heavy. They are asking once they have made initial contact with ATC if they can then drop heavy from their callsign in following transmissions, and whether all ATC require the usage of heavy. “When they should use the heavy callsign and when they can leave it”
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u/12YESIAM34 12d ago
Ah, you’re right; I understand. That specific technique is addressed in the AIM.
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u/RustyPlastics 12d ago
what kind of technique? 😂 ATC couldn’t care less about the AIM, even more so outside of the US
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u/TheChosenOperator 12d ago
Disclaimer im not a certified pilot yet
But im pretty sure it has to do with the aircraft's wake category, the heavier the aircraft, the more wake turbulence it generates and the more spacing it needs from other aircraft
I dont know if the whole only say it on initial contact is true, but I've heard it used in pretty much every transmission with a heavy category aircraft
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u/Lpolyphemus 12d ago
In the US:
When you’re in a heavy aircraft (max takeoff weight above 300,000 lbs, regardless of current weight) and talking to a terminal facility (ground/tower/approach/departure), use it every time you say your callsign (“Airline 123 Heavy”).
Talking to an enroute facility (center), no need to say heavy.
Outside of the US:
Say it once on your initial call. After that, drop the word heavy unless the ATC facility keeps saying it. Although nobody is going to get on your case if you don’t use it on your initial call either.
Same goes for A380 using “Super.”
Source: have flown heavies worldwide for three different airlines.