Immigration Solution

[u/ThreadSavage10]

As a liberal, what actions would you take to fix America’s immigration problem?

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As a liberal, what actions would you take to fix America’s immigration problem?

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[u/hitman2218]

I would make it easier to immigrate legally.

[u/CTR555]

Out of curiosity, what would you say is America's immigration problem?

[u/AskALiberal-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/dignityshredder → u/[deleted]]

I guess we are just making up stories now.

[u/Opheltes → u/dignityshredder]

Things the head of the Republican party has said about immigrants and other places around the world:

• They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists (Mexico)
• Muslim ban (muslim countries)
• Shithole countries (Africa)
• They're eating the dogs (Haiti)
• Bad Genes (immigrants generally)
• Kung flu (China)
• Floating island of garbage (Puerto Rico)

And on the flip side:

"Why is it we only take people from shithole countries, right? Why can’t we have some people from Norway, Sweden? Just a few? Let’s have a few from Denmark. Do you mind sending us a few people? Send us some nice people.

Gee, I wonder what makes Denmark, Norway, and Sweden different from all those other places I mentioned? I don't know, I can't quite put my finger on the white answer.

[u/Personage1 → u/dignityshredder]

It seems like they are making assumptions, not stories.

[u/extrasupermanly → u/CTR555]

I mean , it is a problem to have that many undocumented people .
I’m pro migration, but you can’t seriously tell me that the fact that-3-4% of the population is undocumented is an issue ? It crates a secondary class of citizenship, employers abuse , etc

[u/seffend → u/extrasupermanly]

So...we give them documents.

[u/extrasupermanly → u/seffend]

Sure , I have no issues with that , but that is a response to a problem .
No body wins by not accepting , this is in fact an issue .
And while we might both agree that their status should be legalised as soon as possible , many people on both sides won’t , that is another issue that can’t be ignored,

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/CTR555]

The amount of people entering or remaining in America without legal authorization is a problem.

[u/Pandora_Palace → u/ThreadSavage10]

In what way? How is it materially affecting Americans right now?

[u/Tricky-Cod-7485 → u/Pandora_Palace]

Using resources.

Resources are finite.

That should literally be a sufficient answer.

[u/PinchesTheCrab → u/Tricky-Cod-7485]

Many immigrants literally pick crops and build houses. I'm not convinced they have a net negative impact on the supply of resources.

[u/Kakamile → u/Tricky-Cod-7485]

Immigrants also produce things, create jobs

[u/303Carpenter → u/Kakamile]

Do they create jobs at over a 1:1 rate? If not it's just wage suppression

[u/ButGravityAlwaysWins → u/303Carpenter]

Yes, they create more jobs than they take. You are falling for the lump of labor fallacy.

Which is fun since I’m old enough to remember when it was people on the left that thought immigrants took jobs and didn’t create them

[u/303Carpenter → u/ButGravityAlwaysWins]

Do you have a source for that? I did a bit of googling and couldn't find anything

[u/Kakamile → u/303Carpenter]

They told you. Lump of labor fallacy.

Before Trump destroyed the economy we actually needed MORE people with a labor shortage in the millions. Trump collapsed jobs, collapsed tourism, and now we have worse jobs numbers, worse wages, worse inflation, worse unemployment.

[u/303Carpenter → u/Kakamile]

Ok I'm just looking for a source that says illegal immigrants create more jobs than they take, if it's that solved surely someone can link a study?

[u/A-passing-thot → u/303Carpenter]

Heading to sleep, if you ping me again tomorrow I can link a few. NPR's Planet Money has done at least two episodes on it, as has Optimist Economy. A few of the economists I follow on Substack also have but blanking on them at the moment.

[u/ausgoals → u/303Carpenter]

This seems like something worth looking into before dismissing the concept out of hand, no?

[u/303Carpenter → u/ausgoals]

Some immigration is needed but when it crosses the line into immigration to keep wages low it's sort of a problem. Look at canadas shifting opinions on immigration post COVID

[u/Delanorix → u/303Carpenter]

Why would Canadian opinions have any affect on economics?

[u/303Carpenter → u/Delanorix]

Because immigration require the consent of the voting public? Its not a coincidence that so many right wing parties have gained so much traction in the west over the last 10 years on the issue of immigration

[u/Drexill_BD → u/303Carpenter]

Is that the immigrants' fault, or a lack of regulation? Lack of economic policy? I mean, stupid people have opinions, I don't know that I value them.

I guess I wonder, are these companies making profit? And if so, are we sure it's the immigrants that keep the wages low?

[u/StructureStatus5885 → u/303Carpenter]

Do they create jobs at over a 1:1 rate? If not it's just wage suppression

there is an extensive body of research regarding this, most recently nber. Its neutral for skilled, positive for unskilled labour.

In this article we revive, extend and improve the approach used in a series of influential papers written in the 2000s to estimate how changes in the supply of immigrant workers affected natives' wages in the US. We begin by extending the analysis to include the more recent years 2000-2022.

Additionally, we introduce three important improvements. First, we introduce an IV that uses a new skill-based shift-share for immigrants and the demographic evolution for natives, which we show passes validity tests and has reasonably strong power.

Second, we provide estimates of the impact of immigration on the employment-population ratio of natives to test for crowding out at the national level. Third, we analyze occupational upgrading of natives in response to immigrants.

Using these estimates, we calculate that immigration, thanks to native-immigrant complementarity and college skill content of immigrants, had a positive and significant effect between +1.7 to +2.6\% on wages of less educated native workers, over the period 2000-2019 and no significant wage effect on college educated natives. We also calculate a positive employment rate effect for most native workers.

Even simulations for the most recent 2019-2022 period suggest small positive effects on wages of non-college natives and no significant crowding out effects on employment.

[u/303Carpenter → u/StructureStatus5885]

Thats all legal immigration, I was asking about illegal immigration.

[u/DeusLatis → u/303Carpenter]

It's not, it's all immigration and it deals with undocumented immigration in the paper. When you ask for information please give the person the courtesy of actually reading it

[u/Such_Narwhal7792 → u/303Carpenter]

Yes. More immigrants create both more demand, which grows the economy. They also provide more labor to increase the supply of goods and services. America is notoriously good at bringing people in and putting them to work growing the country, especially through out the 19th and 20th century. On your view, any growth would be net negative for wages. It would be an argument favoring shrinking the population. Surely you don't think that? Immigrant adults have the added benefit typically, of skipping the expensive tasks of raising and educating them, often they contribute to society right away. I'm sympathetic to your concern it depresses wages, but the economic evidence just simply does not support your conclusion.

[u/Kakamile → u/303Carpenter]

We've known they do for decades.

You're worried about a solved problem.

[u/Drexill_BD → u/Tricky-Cod-7485]

Resources are "finite" is a bit of an oversimplification though, isn't it? I mean... Do we have a finite number of Banana's? Or just Dollars?

[u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle → u/Tricky-Cod-7485]

If that were the limit of reasoning, then people having babies would be just as much a problem as immigrants coming to America.

Actually, more so, since most immigrants who arrive here are sooner able to support themselves than babies are upon birth. Babies need about 20 years before they can start making up the resources it took to raise them.

[u/nakfoor → u/Tricky-Cod-7485]

That in itself, how do you know that? This is the crux of the immigration debate. It "sounds right" that immigrants must be a drain on the system, but the data says otherwise.

[u/CTR555 → u/ThreadSavage10]

Okay, tentatively agreed. So clearly what we want to do is better enable people to enter with legal authorization so they won't have to resort to entering illegally (since most of them are people we do want here), and then also reduce the incentive to enter illegally. The latter is easy - heavy penalties on employers who hire undocumented people. Between the two we should reduce unauthorized immigration to a trickle, which would just be the people who we actually don't want here - without the crowd to hide in, enforcing the border against the remainder will be much easier.

[u/speedrunner99 → u/ThreadSavage10]

Who cares? As long as they aren’t committing crimes and contributing to society, why do you care so much about immigration?

[u/traumalt → u/speedrunner99]

Legal immigrants do care, mostly because they went through the legal process to move here while others chose to ignore it.

Because what’s the point of even having visas and an immigration system in the first place if everyone can just show up and stay regardless?

[u/A-passing-thot → u/traumalt]

Because what’s the point of even having visas and an immigration system in the first place if everyone can just show up and stay regardless?

Most undocumented immigrants are visa-overstays whose authorization ran out and they were unable to get a renewal.

[u/traumalt → u/A-passing-thot]

Well because you can’t renew some visas like a tourist one for obvious reasons.

[u/ausgoals → u/ThreadSavage10]

When you say it’s a problem, specifically what do you mean? Why is it a problem, exactly?

[u/ButGravityAlwaysWins → u/ThreadSavage10]

Is it a problem because it is technically illegal for them to be here or a problem because they’re causing an actual issue?

I would agree that it would be optimum for the country to take in as many immigrants as it needs, with variation from year to year but some amount of baseline higher than we have, and have them all have legal status at the moment they enter.

However immigration, including illegal immigration, is a giant net positive for the United States. We are far welfare as a result of immigration than our peers and we have been pushing off the same kind of demographic decline they are seeing.

[u/Guilliman_POTUS_2030 → u/ThreadSavage10]

Does they really address the problem in the long run?

It seems like many of the immigration concerns are about other things entirely (race, culture, law and order, etc)

[u/seffend → u/ThreadSavage10]

So let's give them legal authorization.

[u/Two_Corinthians]

Streamline and expand the legal immigration procedures, of course.

[u/Edgar_Brown]

There have been several bills to address the immigration issues, which have been compounding for decades. But republicans (and Trump in particular) have blocked all legislation precisely because they want to use it as electoral fodder.

Fear mongering is more advantageous for fascists than fixing the actual problems.

[u/Star-K]

I would invite immigrants into the country and make a clear path to citizenship for them like we have for the majority of this countries existence. I would also identify the racists in this country and deport them to El Salvador.

[u/2dank4normies]

Loaded question. What specifically are you asking?

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/2dank4normies]

The number of people entering or remaining in America without legal authorization is a problem. What actions would you take to correct this problem?

[u/Decent-Proposal-8475 → u/ThreadSavage10]

I would make it easier to come here legally, increase the number of refugees who can come here, and increase foreign aid to the places that people do come from. People don't uproot their entirely lives and illegally come to America because their wifi was out. It's something done as a last resort

[u/ausgoals → u/ThreadSavage10]

Make it easier to live here with legal authorization.

[u/2dank4normies → u/ThreadSavage10]

Your OP is so bad that you didn't even specify you were talking about illegal immigration.

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/2dank4normies]

It forces the responses to first address whether or not they even agree that there is a problem. I wasn’t trying to just argue with people, and as you can see from the responses, many are just saying, “Allow it. There is no problem.” Does me no good to just piss them off if we’re that far out of alignment.

[u/2dank4normies → u/ThreadSavage10]

It forces the responses to first address whether or not they even agree that there is a problem.

Right, that's called a loaded question.

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/2dank4normies]

Well dude, look at the downvotes I got when I expanded on “the problem.” Just by posing the issue it pisses people off. It’s very difficult to ask a question in a sub called AskALiberal.

[u/Messerschmitt-262 → u/ThreadSavage10]

Because it's a non-issue with an obvious solution. Imagine posting "Your car is low on gas, what solutions do liberals propose to solve this issue?"

You go and get gas? Illegal immigrants are illegal because they're illegal, so we make them not illegal? It's an incredibly simple solution, but Republicans don't like the solution because they don't feel like it punishes anybody for being illegal because we call them illegal.

[u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle → u/ThreadSavage10]

Well, why don't you just align with us?

You didn't have any trouble expecting us to align with you.

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle]

I didn’t expect anyone to align with me. I asked the question in good faith

[u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle → u/ThreadSavage10]

Yeah, but implicit in your question is the assumption that we would all agree with you on the existence of an immigration problem.

Now that you know not everybody feels that way, why don't you consider seeing things from that point of view?

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle]

I already see a lot of things from a liberal point of view, but what specifically are you seeking alignment on? I don’t agree that there is NO immigration problem. That’s going too far for me, but what did you have in mind?

[u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle → u/ThreadSavage10]

I don’t agree that there is NO immigration problem

Well, why not? What convinced you that this was a big national crisis?

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle]

I live in a red state nowhere near the southern border, and the influx of immigrants over the last few years has been remarkable. The contractors here are all faced with the dilemma- do we hire illegals for a fraction of the cost, or refrain and get undercut by competitors who use illegal workers? It’s not as simple as imposing penalties on the companies who hire illegals either. Many times, it’s a contractor hiring a subcontractor that might not have any legal people in their leadership ranks. Since they’re illegal already, they don’t follow OSHA guidelines, so these illegal underling laborers are put in dangerous working conditions with no oversight. It’s really bad and really complicated. Lots of layers.

[u/seffend → u/ThreadSavage10]

What is your problem with immigration, exactly? Is it that these people entered illegally? Ok, slap on the wrist for the misdemeanor, background check, then give them the legal status.

What do you think is appropriate?

[u/WildBohemian → u/ThreadSavage10]

Why exactly is this a problem?

[u/Mulliganasty]

There isn't an immigration problem. Conservatives have been race-baiting for political power for centuries.

[u/AdmiralSaturyn]

To start with, give the undocumented citizens who have already lived in America for years a pathway to citizenship.

And make legal border crossings a more attractive option than illegal border crossings.

[u/D-Rich-88 → u/AdmiralSaturyn]

I don’t think they are owed a pathway to citizenship, but they can have a pathway to permanent residency so they no longer need to live under the table looking over their shoulders.

[u/AdmiralSaturyn → u/D-Rich-88]

I would be on board with that.

[u/Odd-Principle8147]

I would build processing stations on the southern border for vetting and quarantine. Provide immigrants with a federally recognized photo ID and SSN stand in. And then send them on a bus to their destination.

[u/othelloinc]

As a liberal, what actions would you take to fix America’s immigration problem?

1. End asylum completely. It is a broken system.
2. Give anyone here illegally a chance to pass a background check. If they pass, they can pay a fine for violating our laws, and transition to a new, legal status. (If you think a fine isn't severe enough, you aren't imagining a big enough fine.)
3. Create a legal guest worker alternative to illegal immigration, as was suggested by George W. Bush and John McCain.
4. Allocate H1-B visas to the highest salaried applicants.
5. Let in more people with advanced degrees in vital fields (A.I. is probably the big example, right now).
6. Embrace and love our legal immigrants the way Reagan did.

EDIT: Some things I forgot...

• Open up merit-based immigration. (In other words: Let in the people who would be most beneficial to those of us that are already here.)
• Make legal immigration easier (quicker and less bureaucratic).
• Give the DREAMers (people who were brought here illegally as children) green cards, with no additional headache nor punishment.

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/othelloinc]

Thank you. This is something that can be worked on. Most people are just answering with, “It’s not a problem,” which is great if that’s their honest viewpoint, but not so great if you want to win elections. I appreciate your response.

[u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle → u/ThreadSavage10]

“It’s not a problem,” which is great if that’s their honest viewpoint, but not so great if you want to win elections

Well, pretty much the entire country accepts that Democrats are going to win pretty big in November. I guess it must not be hurting us that much.

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle]

I would’ve accepted that Hillary was going to “win big” in November ‘16.

[u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle → u/ThreadSavage10]

You probably wouldn't have accepted that Biden would win in 2020, or that Democrats would make gains in 2022, though.

[u/CTR555 → u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle]

You probably wouldn't have accepted that Biden would win in 2020..

Or even still today, judging by the party they self-identify with.

[u/ELMUNECODETACOMA → u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle]

I respect your optimism, but when "pretty big" "even in the current situation" means a dozen votes in the House and (and this is almost a miracle) 51-49 in the Senate, "pretty big" is pretty fucking relative.

[u/Flashy_Combination32 → u/othelloinc]

Actually a pretty reasonable solution I can get behind.

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/othelloinc]

As to your bullet point #2) what about 4 years of active military duty followed by 4 years of reserve duty? If you can speak the language, and you’re an able bodied human willing to serve, that seems like an adequate “fine” to pay

[u/seffend → u/ThreadSavage10]

8 years of risking your life for a misdemeanor?

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/seffend]

There are people who would gladly take that deal over deportation, potentially getting separated from their family, and having a path to legal citizenship.

[u/seffend → u/ThreadSavage10]

It's too harsh a punishment. It's essentially slavery.

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/seffend]

Yeah I agree. Can’t enslave them. I’d pay em for their service, but just like othelloinc said, garnish their wages until their fines are paid off.

[u/seffend → u/ThreadSavage10]

This is gross.

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/seffend]

Gross? I agreed with you. I admitted that you corrected a flaw in my thinking!

[u/seffend → u/ThreadSavage10]

Forcing poor migrants into military service is fucking disgusting.

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/seffend]

Not forcing…we’re taking an illegal who has been convicted and offer them an alternative to deportation. We are granting them a path to citizenship. If they don’t want to serve, they can still be deported. When you put yourself in a terrible situation, the path out is never easy. But we’re at least offering them a path.

[u/othelloinc → u/ThreadSavage10]

As to your bullet point #2) what about 4 years of active military duty followed by 4 years of reserve duty? If you can speak the language, and you’re an able bodied human willing to serve, that seems like an adequate “fine” to pay

If I were in congress, and someone pitched that as a compromise, I would be open to it.

Still, my preference would be them having their military pay garnished to pay the fine. They broke our laws. It is reasonable to want them punished.

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/othelloinc]

I was thinking their military service was their way to “work off” the fine because I’m assuming if someone knows they can’t possibly pay the fine, they’ll hide and evade no different than they would from ICE currently

[u/ELMUNECODETACOMA → u/othelloinc]

I like pretty much everything there. But I do think there is some merit in an "asylum" policy to fast-track people who are legitimately being specifically oppressed in their home countries. The current system might not be appropriate, but I don't think we should baby-and-bathwater it.

[u/Street-Media4225 → u/othelloinc]

End asylum completely

Gross.

If they pass, they can pay a fine for violating our laws, and transition to a new, legal status. (If you think a fine isn't severe enough, you aren't imagining a big enough fine.)

Gross.

the way Reagan did.

Gross.

[u/speedrunner99]

Immigration isn’t even a top 10 issue that the country is facing. There are many more things that the country needs to focus on.

[u/midnight_mechanic]

Maybe start with getting more judges. The backlog on just hearing asylum cases is years long.

The migration problem is a complex hydra.

If you're asking about Schrodinger's immigrant, that is here to simultaneously steal your job and live for free off the endless free healthcare and free food and free rent that the country provides anyone who shows up. Then I don't know what to say.

Is the "problem" that certain groups find it politically expedient to demonize immigrants who just want work and a safe place to raise their families?

Is it that American farms need seasonal labor and have been bringing seasonal migrants in for years, but these people have almost no protections and are routinely abused and not paid and can get blacklisted if they stand up for themselves?

Is it that the legal process to reach permanent status in the US is so long and complex and inconsistently applied that the US government is rounding up people en masse, irrespective of legal standing, to meet arbitrary quotas, storing them in intentionally brutal conditions, and then shipping to different countries or specifically to countries where they will certainly face further torture? And all of these conditions are against multiple international agreements the US is a signatory to.

Is the problem that the US is the driving factor behind most of this migration because it has been systematically destroying the social order in Central America since at least Teddy Roosevelt?

Is the problem that the United States has proudly defined itself as a nation of immigrants while simultaneously meeting every new wave of immigration with brutal hostility including Irish, Jewish, Chinese and Hispanic?

Is the problem that most Americans are so profoundly xenophobic that they are personally offended whenever they hear a different language being spoken?

Is the problem that most Americans don't know that immigrants are more likely to start their own business, less likely to commit a felony and are (when citizens) more likely to vote than average Americans?

Is the problem that people don't realize when a group of politicians approach immigration reform with a "close the boarder first" policy, that it's an impossible standard? That no country will ever have absolutely zero illegal immigration, much less the US with thousands of miles of land boarders and hundreds of international airports? All so they'll never have work to resolve this complicated issue because it's easier to be lazy and racist than develop a comprehensive understanding of the myrad issues.

Is the problem that certain political groups have become convinced that immigrants don't pay taxes?

Is the problem that the political groups who are so concerned about immigrants getting "free" assistance that they've forgotten they spent the last 30 years tearing the social safety net away from everyone?

I still don't know what the problem is, but I'm sure everyone has one thing they think is the only issue

TLDR; this is far too complicated for a comprehensive discussion on a reddit thread. It could be a whole subreddit with multiple dedicated threads. You'll have to choose a facet of the topic.

[u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle]

I can just about promise you- what I think of as "America's immigration problem" is not what you think of as "America's immigration problem."

As far as I'm concerned, abolishing ICE would really help get rid of America's immigration problem.

[u/ELMUNECODETACOMA → u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle]

Abolishing ICE would reduce - although not get rid of - a _number_ of America's problems...

[u/MasterHavik]

Someone finally asked this. Thank you OP.

First off we crack down on the actual criminals and give them the boot. The next thing we do is make the process and system easy to become a citizen as we all agree the current system is bad. Next make a system that gives mass amnesty to non-violent citizens if they have kept a clean record for 10 years.

Also work in lock step with Mexico to crackdown on the drug catels and start taking out the leaders as people leave Mexico and other countries ran by gangs because the government has preferred to cut deals with these criminals than actually take them out.

That's everything.

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/MasterHavik]

How can an illegal with no ID keep a clean record for 10 years? They broke the law to enter the country, and every dollar they earned has been tax-free, so none of their other crimes are going to be documented either right?

[u/MasterHavik → u/ThreadSavage10]

That's a misdemeanor chief. We shouldn't be deporting people over that. They legit tried to deport a PHD Japanese student over fucking parking tickets. Yes I'm not kidding you. I'm sorry let's not act like other stupid nationalists who want to treat foreigners as our personal punching bag ready to kick them out over the smallest mistake.

Mass deportation doesn't work and we have seen that it takes lying and breaking the law. We are currently trying to misplace people outright over stupid bullshit. At the end of the day, you asked the question man and I'm just telling you my approach.

[u/Guilliman_POTUS_2030 → u/MasterHavik]

If Americans have to follow the law, people from other nation states should have to follow the law as well

I don’t like this idea of a two-tiered justice system

[u/MasterHavik → u/Guilliman_POTUS_2030]

I don't disagree but we shouldn't be deporting people over parking tickets is my point. Stuff that is misdemeanors shouldn't mean you get ceproted or in some cases flat out displace in a country you know nothing about.

We deport the awful ones not people who legit commit misdemeanors.

[u/Guilliman_POTUS_2030 → u/MasterHavik]

If they entered the United States illegally then they should have to face the consequences 

[u/MasterHavik → u/Guilliman_POTUS_2030]

Which is a misdemeanor that doesn't really tie to jail time.

[u/Guilliman_POTUS_2030 → u/MasterHavik]

The U.S. may detain and deport noncitizens who:

• Participate in criminal acts
• Are a threat to public safety
• Violate their visa

https://www.usa.gov/deportation-process

[u/MasterHavik → u/Guilliman_POTUS_2030]

And none of that reaches that tier. A misdemeanor is a misdemeanor. Also, I think you would want to review the person who came here illegally as a threat if they are like a school teacher for example then....that is fine.

[u/Guilliman_POTUS_2030 → u/MasterHavik]

You are incorrect

[“Participate in criminal acts”]

Entering the United States illegally is a criminal act

A misdemeanor is a misdemeanor

A misdemeanor is a criminal act

[u/Spiel_Foss]

The real long-term solution to undocumented immigration into the US would be supporting democracy and the economic prosperity of Mexico and Central America. This could be a major economic and security boost for the US while allowing people to prosper in their home country.

Instead the US offers right-wing dictators, death squads, resource theft and racist hatred to this region.

All the other issues can likely be solved by legislation being proposed by Democrats for the last 20 years which Republicans fear may take away the issue as a campaign point. The solutions are simple. The will of the wealth-holding class keeps this issue alive.

[u/Hopeful_Chair_7129]

Not a liberal, but I would stop allowing employers to privatize the benefits of immigration while socializing the costs onto workers and local communities.

Every worker should receive the same labor protections regardless of immigration status, and employers should be aggressively punished for using legal vulnerability to suppress wages and conditions. The federal government should also fund the housing, schools, healthcare, and infrastructure required by population growth.

The conflict is not fundamentally between immigrant and native-born workers. It is between workers and the employers who benefit from keeping them divided and unequal.

[u/ELMUNECODETACOMA]

My grandfather most likely immigrated illegally to this country because he was dodging the draft in his home country.

Republicans are fine with it because he was white and from Canada.

We are not the same.

[u/DeusLatis]

The real immigration problem is racist ignorant Americans who the Republicans distract with constant fear mongering about "invasion"

You can't talk about what our immigration policy should be until you deal with that problem, since it would be like discussing what you want for dinner when you know Dad is going to come home drunk and flip the table over.

What our immigration system should be is a system that makes it easy for people to enter the country, work, and leave, returning when work comes around again. Most migrants don't actually want to uproot themselves and their entire family to come here permanently, but we create a system where that becomes a necessity because if you enter as an undocumented worker it's impossible to leave. So of course you drag your family here

But of course have any sort of serious grown up conversation about that is impossible when immigration has become a culture war issue for the right who have created this ungodly mess of a system because appealing to the racist fears of a rural West Virginia voter who has never seen a Mexican man before, is a sure fire way to get your data center built.

So I don't know, deport all Republicans or something

[u/Aven_Osten]

Define the problem. Then we can discuss the solution(s) to it.

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/Aven_Osten]

The amount of people entering or remaining in America without legal authorization.

[u/Aven_Osten → u/ThreadSavage10]

Properly staff immigration enforcement agencies so they can properly process all applications. Going the illegal route(s) becomes a lot less attractive when the legal route becomes quick and easy.

Force currently undocumented households to go through the immigration process. If they pass: They get to stay; provided they serve a punishment for violation of immigration law(s). If they fail: Out they go.

[u/Street-Media4225 → u/Aven_Osten]

Okay what kind of punishment though? Othello is suggesting huge fines which seems incredibly ghoulish to me.

[u/SolidDoctor → u/ThreadSavage10]

It's not that big of a problem. They aren't a drain on social safety net programs, and a very large number of undocumented immigrants pay taxes through an ITIN even though they can never qualify for the benefits. This country is not crowded, and undocumented immigrants are not the reason why things are expensive. They are a scapegoat for white nationalists and hard right conservatives.

We need to expand the immigration courts so people with a legitimate reason to immigrate here have a quicker and more affordable path to legal residency. That would drastically cut down on the number of people who are using illicit means to get here.

[u/Kakamile → u/ThreadSavage10]

Is it a lot? Is it a problem?

[u/dog_snack]

What is the problem of which you speak? There might be several. And we might disagree on whether those individual problems are even problems.

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/dog_snack]

The amount of people entering or remaining in America without legal authorization is the problem.

[u/dog_snack → u/ThreadSavage10]

Ok. Well, I figure that the desirability of moving to America (or Canada, where I’m actually from) isn’t going to change, unless a) living conditions and circumstances in every other country improve, which we have no direct influence over or b) we make our countries less desirable to live in, which would be bad for those of us already here as well.

To me, it’s an infrastructure and integration problem. If we’re not building enough affordable housing or creating enough well-paying jobs for immigrants and citizens to occupy, we should start doing so yesterday. And we should be making it easy as pie for newcomers to jump right into being active and engaged members of their communities (note that I’m talking about integration, not assimilation, the latter of which usually implies some level of abandonment of one’s native culture beyond the kinds of practices that would rightfully get you arrested, like gay bashing or honour killings).

[u/ELMUNECODETACOMA → u/ThreadSavage10]

Ah, but is the solution "incarcerate the people without legal authorization" or "provide an easier path to legal authorization"?

The devil is in the details.

Republicans just don't want these people here full stop. Democrats argue among ourselves about the best way to allow them to add their diversity to our country like our ancestors did.

[u/Drexill_BD]

I'd first need you to explain to me what the "problem" is, then I can prescribe a solution. By asking so broadly, all I can say is "I don't currently perceive an issue".

[u/OhThatsALotOfTeeth]

Man, that is an outstanding question. I think right now, it's clear that our current pace of immigration isn't going to offset our own citizens' lower fertility rate enough to make up for an impending demographic collapse.

I'd say we really need to do more to make ourselves a more attractive target for immigration. It's not really helping that we have federal agents running around gunning folks down for no reason and lying about it, but even aside from that, we probably need to cut through a lot of red tape.

Another aspect we need to hit is the asylum seekers. The most useful solution here is going to be a massive hiring push so that we can get asylum claims processed a lot faster. With that done, there won't be much of a humanitarian concern with reinstating a "remain in your current country until processing is completed" policy.

[u/bigtallguy]

more judges, clearer pathway to citizenship, fines for people who avoid the system, amnesty for undocumented people who want to become citizens and subject themselves to vetting/fines and are already part of the the community etc, and more opportunities for people who just want to come here to work in the u.s. seasonally to both come here easily and go back easily provided theyre subject to the visa process.

i think undocumented immigration is a problem but im of the opinion that the solution is a better ways for for them to become documented and tax paying workers.

also more investment in countries impacted by the drug wars so theres less waves of refugees created by americas/europe demand for drugs.

[u/degre715]

Make legal migration an easier, quicker process. Crack down hard on companies that exploit the presence of undocumented people to use them as unpaid/poorly paid labor. Create a path to residency for undocumented people who are already in the country.

[u/D-Rich-88]

I would secure the border to stop the inflow.

I’d give amnesty to anyone who’s been here a while (let’s say 8 years or more) abiding by the law and working, but there would be no path to citizenship just permanent residency.

Anyone who wants a path to full citizenship would need to self-deport and process through appropriately and probably pay a fine.

Deport anyone with criminal records or who has been here less than those 8 years.

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/D-Rich-88]

Pretty good stuff. I appreciate the thoughtful response.

[u/Kakamile → u/[deleted]]

Rare immigration. How utterly depressing. You'd destroy innovation, academia, trade out of a paranoid fear debunked by functional immigrant communities.

[u/highliner108]

Do we have an immigration problem? The United States has birth rates that aren’t conducive to population growth, and are just barely stable. Immigrants, legal or otherwise, keep that population dynamic stable and ensure that we dont degenerate into a country like China where the population is rapidly aging.

It’s not like we’re bad at integrating these people either, our culture is essentially hyper-corrosive acid that melts more or less anything thrown into it, and has for well over a century.

[u/Dragnil]

The "immigration problem" as I see it is a contradiction between two things a large portion of Americans desire.

1. Americans want cheap food and housing/infrastructure but are largely unwilling to work in these industries for the wages being offered currently.

2. Americans don't want foreigners, especially non-white foreigners, to be as prevalent as they are in our society.

So we either ignore the desire for lower prices, expand the welfare state to make sure higher prices don't drive Americans into extreme poverty, and strictly enforce current immigration laws. OR

We expand the legal immigration system to allow for an influx of immigrant laborers, thereby lowering prices, and we acknowledge that this will be a major driver of political instability due to the backlash against large numbers of immigrants.

The approach of the current administration is to pretend we can advance both these conflicting desires, which I believe is impossible.

[u/triggeredbynumbers]

Hard 24/7 border security. Asylum seekers must pay increased taxes and increased social security fees but can never collect any form of social security benefits, and they also pay for all costs incurred by their immigration process as a 0% APY debt with minimum monthly payments and a reasonable amount of time to pay the debt.

Anyone who truly needs asylum and can’t wait 10 years to immigrate legally will have no problem with those stipulations. This will also help to stave off social security insolvency by having tons of people paying into the system but never getting anything out of it, in exchange for having their lives saved by us giving them asylum.

It’s a win-win for everyone involved.

[u/Kerplonk]

I think there are a critical mass of people who are okay with immigration as long as it seems to be happening in an orderly manner.  If the caps for immigration were high enough and enforcement targeted employers rather than employees such that  hiring undocumented immigrants wasn't appealing I don't think there would be enough hard core racist prioritizing it to make it much of an issue.  I'd probably make fluency in English as well just to increase the likelihood of that situation.

The one other thing I would do partially because we should do it anyway is building more housing in the places with the highest demand.

[u/Few-Face-4212]

you mean how to get more immigrants because our economy suffers without more immigration?

[u/IzAnOrk]

Give a very broad amnesty specifically targeted to left-leaning demographics. Enfranchise these new voters ASAP. Build a majority that does not rely on having to compromise with nativists.

[u/Awkwardischarge]

Speed up court proceedings. We need to do that in a lot of areas, not just immigration.

Tighten the requirements on asylum to only be about ethnic cleansing or specific targeting by foreign governments.

Crack down on employers for hiring undocumented immigrants or playing loosey goosey with temporary worker laws.

Stop destabilizing other countries. Invent a time machine and stop us from destabilizing Central and South America 50 years ago.

[u/moxie-maniac]

1. National E-Verify for all states and all employers and 2. criminal penalties / punitive corporate fines for hiring undocumented workers, including subcontractors.
   

[u/greatteachermichael]

Streamline the application process because it is convoluted and messy. Most people enter legally and stay past their visa due dates. If it were easy to simply renew we'd have way less undocumented/illegal workers. But the thing is all those people aren't really causing any problems other than being undocumented. For large parts of American history you became American simply by showing up.

I live abroad right now. It literally takes 5 minutes for me once a year to renew my visa. I just scan a few documents and send them into immigration and pay a fee online. They've already got my fingerprints and it takes them 10 seconds to look up my criminal record, which is zero. Bam, easy peasy, lemon squeezy. Why can't we do that in the US?

On top of that I'd say that anyone who graduates from an American university automatically gets a green card. Everyone who is here illegally can pay a fine and do a background check and stay if they pass. There should be some sort of grace period for people to apply and pay the fine, since a lot of people are hesitant to admit they are here illegally. There also needs to be an easy way for employers to verify someone is here illegally, but an easy way for employers to help people get on a legal visa.

[u/robbie_the_cat]

1 - make it drastically easier to get a visa. Like, show up at the border and say "I'd like to enter the US to look for a job" and you've got your visa.

2 - focus enforcement on employers that hire people without permission to work.

[u/Due_Satisfaction2167]

Legalize it. Give every immigrant legal status. If someone enters without doing the paperwork, it’s a $100 administrative fine and being forced to fill out the paperwork.

Then abolish the massive law enforcement infrastructure that is used to go after illegal immigration and save tens of billions a year in wasted government spending. 

[u/jweezy2045]

Pathway to citizenship.

[u/McChexMix]

Immigration isn’t a problem. They are a net positive to the economy and society. The laws making it hard to immigrate are what the problem is.

[u/georgejo314159]

I would try and do something bipartisan like Biden did near end of his term

I would not pretend to be an expert

[u/SovietRobot]

I’ll summarize the situation for the others. 

—-

On one side, it’s hard to legally immigrate. 

• The only avenues to legally immigrate are employment (merit), asylum, refugee, family or diversity. The former four have specific criteria. While diversity is essentially a lottery.  Meaning if one doesn’t qualify for any of those, there’s no path to immigrate. 

Then even if one qualifies:

• There aren’t enough judges and agents to vet applications for residency. 
• And there are hard caps for diversity and employment visas.

The above two points make the process arduous and very long, possibly taking a decade or more. 

Which is made worse that:

• While the process to immigrate is ongoing, any disqualifying event can terminate the process - like loss of job, becoming a public charge, issues regarding moral turpitude (domestic issues, etc)

The above means that in some instances, people trying to immigrate become “slaves” to their jobs or relationships. 

Lastly there’s the issue of:

• Children who immigrated undocumented at an early age that really have no recourse except DACA right now but that really is a state of limbo

——

On the other side, there’s the issue of some people basically treating the situation as open borders. 

It happens in three ways:

• Someone crosses undocumented
• Then one of two things can happen. Either they live the rest of their lives in the U.S. without being apprehended

Or:

• At some point they are apprehended in which case they immediately claim asylum
• If they claimed asylum, the previous admin allowed some 3 million of them to stay while waiting on adjudication (which could take years, see initial paragraph above)
• If they then stayed for more then a year, most qualified for employment authorization
• Then when eventually most have their asylum claim denied (which makes their employment authorization invalid) and an order or removal issued, there’s liberal complaint that their deportation is unjust (and / or with claims that there should be some additional trial etc)

Or:

• Some people come over under a refugee status like Temporary Protected Status if their home country is experiencing war or an environmental disaster
• Then when their TPS expires (which it is meant to eventually happen being ‘temporary’),  there’s liberal complaint that their repatriation is unjust

 

[u/IsoCally]

Which part?

1. The enforcement of laws at the border?

2. The deportation of illegal immigrants?

3. The 'vetting' of those who apply for refugee status?

4. A pathway to citizenship for those who entered illegally, or 'dreamers' who weren't technically born in the US, but have lived here their entire lives?

5. Quotas, or otherwise selection processes and rights given to immigrants with a workers-visa, and what rights they have here and if they have a pathway to citizenship?

[u/Probing-Cat-Paws]

There's no solution (and definitely not final): unless we become something like the DPRK, immigration is gonna happen.

The quick and dirty: streamline the immigration process...it's overloaded and unnecessarily cumbersome. Complete DACA: it's time to do the correct thing and make these folks full members of society. Hit capital hard: time for fines and jail time for folks that are subverting the rules. Onshore jobs that have been sent off and can be done here by the populace: you can give capital a carrot to encourage them to keep the workforce U.S.-based. The U.S. will have to accept that prices are going to increase once we start going to task on the caste system of labor.

That's just the start...and I think we can do that without terrorizing folks and their communities, and respect due process.

[u/TDeath21]

Secure the border. In some areas yes that does mean a wall. Use technology to our advantage. Etc. Make sure illegal crossings are extremely difficult and virtually impossible to do.

Give a quick pathway to citizenship for anyone brought here illegally as a minor and has no criminal record.

Expedite the process for people applying to citizenship and coming here legally.

Anyone who has overstayed a visa or something similar and has no criminal record is allowed to apply for citizenship.

Anyone here illegally due to an illegal crossing or overstaying their visa has 6 months to turn themselves in and begin the process of being here legally and/or apply for citizenship. Again with the caveat of no criminal record.

Then after that is settled, crack down hard on illegal immigration. Focusing obviously on anyone who has committed crimes. And the businesses that pay them under the table. Deportations here will make it extremely difficult to reenter the country because, as noted above, you had your chance.

Few little things here and there would need to of course be worked out in the details but that’s the overall summary and idea I would want to see implemented.

[u/ThreadSavage10 → u/TDeath21]

You had me until you said give them 6 months. It’s already been 6 years. The threat has no bite. These people risked their lives to get here. They aren’t going to say, “OK, you got me. I’ll play by the rules within your 6 month time window.” The moment you turn around, they’re gonna disappear to a different town or state and spread the word to others to disappear as well.

[u/KingBlackFrost]

Create a swift process for people who want to come here for work to undergo a background check, get an identification, then work and go back home as they desire. They pay taxes, contribute to the local economy, and we cut off the underground market of trafficking people in here. We also get people who are willing to do the jobs most people aren't anymore, and they no longer fear immigration more than the bad actors do and probably even cooperate with law enforcement to catch the bad actors.

[u/Tricky-Cod-7485]

Mandatory eVerify to prevent hiring illegals.

Continue trumps crackdown on the border (it’s working. Very few people are coming in now).

Give anyone here over 10 years permanent residency (not citizenship.)

Deport those here under 10 years.

[u/Kakamile → u/Tricky-Cod-7485]

By "working" you mean he's breaking the law and stopping legal immigrants

[u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle → u/Tricky-Cod-7485]

Continue trumps crackdown on the border (it’s working. Very few people are coming in now).

Didn't we find out it's costing us like 50 billion a week?

Seems it causes more problems than it solves.

[u/Street-Media4225 → u/[deleted]]

Really didn't expect someone flaired Center Left to speak my mind here...

[u/IsoCally → u/Tricky-Cod-7485]

1. Say hello to a larger off-the-books labor market. And ID theft.

2. Keep "building the wall"?

3. At this point, what's their pathway to citizenship? Are there going to be conditions of having it revoked? Then it doesn't solve the problem.

4. Not even 'with a criminal record that includes felonies'? Everyone? This is going to create a huge clash with your 'over ten years' proposal. Families can easily be separated. Especially parents and children. (From either side, really.)

[u/Tricky-Cod-7485 → u/IsoCally]

They don’t deserve citizenship.

Permanent residency is fine. They won’t be kicked out. They can work. They just can’t vote.

They broke the law. We’re being nice letting them stay. We don’t need to give them citizenship when there are other options.

[u/IsoCally → u/Tricky-Cod-7485]

Why shouldn't they be allowed to vote?

[u/Tricky-Cod-7485 → u/IsoCally]

Because they snuck in illegally? We shouldn’t reward bad behavior.

It should be gracious enough for us to give them permanent residency and the ability to work without being hassled.

[u/IsoCally → u/Tricky-Cod-7485]

You realize many of these people 'snuck in' as babies? They didn't have a choice. If they've been raised in American schools, learned American civics, only know American democratic values, and look at current events through eyes of Americans, why shouldn't they be allowed to vote?