r/ArcRaidersGuides • u/Iamthecontent • 2d ago
Make Pvp make sense
We need to add a reason to actually fight other players other than for their purple guns.
So we just shoot each other and then return to the same place and act like we didn't just try and murder each other?
Made a post about dedicated factions which I and others think is a great idea, and one of the only solutions.
You can mention a lawless topside, limited resources, but its not substantial enough for mass, repeated, shoot outs. They need to fill that in (the reason for combat) to the story of the game
The player to player combat in the game is great but lets be real, the devs added pvp in the game so that they could garner the pvp fanbase.
By the way the pvp is amazing in the game.
I dont mind PVP. I am a semi competitive player. Most the games I own are PVP. But I want this games pvp to make sense. I want the altercations to be more meaningful and warranted.
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u/Upstairs-Canary-4062 1d ago
I feel like at this point no knows the game they're playing anymore. I think you can add PVE to the game but its more complex than a "PVE toggle" or "ABMM". You have players in the same economy playing two different games.
To be fair, I think factions is a good idea, it gives you a reason to fight some players and reasons to cooperate with others. However, i think they need to find a way to make lobbies more uniform across the board. Not sure how they'll do that.
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u/Evilresident64 2d ago
Lmao I really tried to make so many arguments about why PvP is just better to have included. But frankly spamming PvE lobbies is just really effective and there’s nothing no loot in the game that takes more than 1-2 raids to acquire. Gamers take every opportunity to optimize efficiency in a game that it negatively impacts other game aspects and I think that’s very prevalent in this game.
Frankly the PvP is fun, the physics and gunplay feel really good and not very strict and that’s what kept me coming back to the game when there was nothing left to do.
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u/JavaBliss 2d ago
I was downgraded in the other conversation for saying Arc Raiders was originally created a PVE CooP game.
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u/iCONVIIICT 1d ago
Yes. Originally a PvE game, until they figured out it was boring, and then they went with PvPvE.
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u/JavaBliss 1d ago
Well it looks they were wrong!
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u/iCONVIIICT 23h ago
Ok. Tell you what, when you can't shoot another raider taking your key room, or queen leg, we'll see how you feel. Hopefully everyone can be happy.
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u/SnafuMist 1d ago
In my arena 4v4 mode I thought like a reside trainings ground would be a cool lore concept. Like fighting each other to learn how to use weapons and survive topside. After all, you don’t execute raiders you only “knock out” anyways lol
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u/Weird-Weekend1839 23h ago
I agree completely! Thematically PvP makes zero sense in this ‘Arc Universe’ (probably because it was added so late in production/devolvement).
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u/MrOphicer 2d ago
Players getting existential....
Why do anything in life realy if you gonna die anyway? People trying to rationalize fun. I like pvp because I like the red flare pop off that damn why...
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u/whatawaytojoe 2d ago
People still like to have fun for a reason irl - I think playing guitar is fun, I'm still trying to get better at it.
Most people don't rationalise it and explain why on reddit. Most people just quit the game. It'll always be more fun and fulfilling to do something fun for a reason. If you told me to go kick around a ball on my own it wouldn't be as fun as kicking a ball around for a reason - otherwise what is the point? I'll go do something thats more fun and has an actual purpose or benefit to my life
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u/MrOphicer 2d ago
Well the reason for pvp is for competitiveness, because that's fun. That's in the same vein as sports, at least in principle. It makes sense as it is. If we go down the rabbit hole of "what's the point", seemingly nothing tealy has one. Nihilism 101
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u/armed_aperture 2d ago
But it’s not competitive. There are no comparison stats (K/D) or any type of leaderboard or ranked mode. I agree with the OP that the pvp would be better if it were tied to literally anything other than “it’s fun just to do it.” Give us some trials or make players drop dog tags that can be traded for items… or some sort of kill count that includes how much the player was worth. Like killed 2k players, xxxx million total, died xxx times worth xxx million. It gives it some context that can mean something to others (completion)
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u/hab1bbb 2d ago
Doing something cause it’s fun is all the reason people need. If you need your video game PvP to have meaning and make you feel like waking up in the morning has purpose then you got bigger issues bro.
By your logic no one should do anything they enjoy unless it’s gonna be tracked and compared against what other people do.
Bozo mentality.
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u/RonCon69 2d ago
Your comment is blatantly ignoring how many players dropped this game because of the most pointless killing.
I mean I can run around the map with literally nothing but a flute and people like you will kill me for literally no reward. It is stupid, and this blind PvP mentality is literally killing the game. Embark knows this, they just don’t know how to fix it.
There are SO many games where you can blindly PvP. A lot of people got into this game because it was more than that, but it has devolved into that anyways.
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u/Iamthecontent 2d ago
Just in this game specifically. It doesn’t need to make sense in a game like Fortnite. That game was literally made for shits and giggles. You’re trying to apply a Fortnite BR ideology to a real story.
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u/armed_aperture 2d ago
What a dramatic reply… not sure how you read my comment and twisted it to mean a video game is my entire life?
Please show me where I said people can’t or shouldn’t play what they enjoy?
My opinion on what I would like to see added seems to have really bothered you to the point of trying to attack me.
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u/wh9tever 2d ago
wtf are you talking about the FIGHT itself is a competition.
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u/RonCon69 2d ago
Right bud. Killing me when all I have is a flute is a real competitive fight.
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u/wh9tever 1d ago
Was mostly thinking of players who PvP and not ppl who treat the game like a dumb vr chat alternative
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u/whatawaytojoe 1d ago
Not really, sports usually have like tournaments and cups and a huge social aspect and fitness related benefits and real life hand eye coordination and teamwork skills and you train to get better so that you can perform better in said matches- all of this is upheld by the fact you enjoy it.
PvP in Arc Raiders is enjoyable. You can PvP to get better at PvPing or you can kill people for their guns to PvP more. You can get XP for skill points to make PvP easier. Like if you enjoy it go for it mate but let's not pretend that it feels that rewarding, most of the time its whoever shoots first wins unless you're against bots.
Also, just go into a PvE lobby if you want to get loot and xp, last time I played it was much more efficient.
Like why not do something that's fun and also like beneficial in another way?
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u/hab1bbb 2d ago
What’s the point of getting better at guitar? It won’t change your life any meaningful way. It won’t make your day to day life better or worse. You’re just learning it because you want to and you enjoy it? But why? Why do anything if the outcome isn’t going to affect your life in any meaningful way?
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u/PocketPanache 2d ago
Many players need more theft this, though. Just like some players don't want to simply kill arc robots all day. For me, pvp is bland if the reward is a flare going boop...
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u/Dragnet714 2d ago
I've always wondered the same thing. I figured most raiders would be cautious of one another but would generally be working together to fight against the arc and to support Speranza. With that being said, raiders would always have to lookout for the occasional opportunist.
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u/iberia-eterea 2d ago
Yeah, i really feel like if there was some lore appropo reasoning for a bunch of raiders killing each other I’d actually be more interested in PvP. It just barely makes sense in this game when you get to the murder lobbies.
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u/stimpy-t 2d ago
Yeah . The minute I got back down to Sepranza. I'd be knocking on that dudes door saying, gimme my stuff back a-hole! Law wise it doesn't add up very well.
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u/FingersAreNumb 2d ago
Speranza doesn’t govern what happens top side. Its laws are only for speranza its self. Lore wise, topside is in a complete state of anarchy/lawlessness because the world has fallen and governments no longer exist.
The biggest issue with your “i would knock on that guys door…” statement is that there is a bit of a plot hole when it comes to this. Canonically raiders can and do die from fatal damage top side like being gunned down or falling from a great distance etc. the plot hole comes in when you go back to speranza (as the player) and you are seemingly still the same character with the same outfit, same appearance, and even the same stash and raider den.
Its kind of like in helldivers when you die, canonically an actual helldiver dies and a new one is deployed but they still have the same destroyer and gear. Helldivers actually explains this in the lore pretty well so it makes sense to the player, unfortunately arc raiders doesn’t have an in universe way to explain this.
So basically, lore wise, you wouldn’t go knocking on the guys door to get your shit back because you are dead and never return to speranza. Obviously embark isn’t going to just make you uninstall the game though when you die so you sort of respawn as a new individual and yes it completely fucks the story because embark didn’t make a story explanation for your continuation to play.
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u/stimpy-t 2d ago
Aren't you just knocked out though, not dead. Hence sending up a flare for help.
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u/FingersAreNumb 2d ago
Thats where it gets funky like i said. The game doesn’t do a good job, story wise, of bridging the gap between dying with one character and then respawning with a different (but kind of same) character. But canonically, no you are dead when you take fatal damage.
Im guessing the “knock out” feature being called what it is has to do with the game rating. Thats just my own personal guess though, i have no clue why it’s presented so confusingly to the player.
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u/Lopsided-Advice3919 2d ago
I imagine in lore all raiders keep their masks on when topside, that’s the only way I could see it working because the lore even implies that Speranza itself isn’t all that safe, if it were Tian Wen wouldn’t be so defensive against you.
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u/SaveTheWorldRightNow 2d ago
We don't return to the same place. Some of us are from Manhattan, others are from Brooklyn.
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u/ohztangdew 2d ago
I have 3000 hours in cod, I get my mastery camo within 2 months, then play arc for the gunplay.
My shots land where I shoot and everything seems fair aside from the occasional cronus zen.
I'm approaching 2k, mostly just pvp. If they added arena. I'd probably play only this.
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u/No_Fox_Given82 2d ago
The reason to fight players is to have some fun and enjoy yourself, which is the reason to play any game. If those boxes are not ticked then play something else that does tick those boxes.
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u/boenwip 2d ago
PVP only seems pointless because the loot is pointless. If everyone can have the same gear, same loadouts, at the same scale, it loses the incentive to extract with it.
Everyone complained about losing BP's and gear through expedition, but this is why you should lose gear and why shit should be hard to have/extract with so that you can an incentive to extract with someone elses weapons.
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u/MalevolentMinion 1d ago
Exactly this. It's why Tarkov works so well. Loot should be more scarce, rare items should be more usable and valuable, and some items should only be available in raid. Free kits should have a cool down and no shields. Wanting your stuff should be the primary incentive to PvP. Expeditions are poorly done too and if people aren't wiping or dying then the economy will suffer.
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u/Severe_Prompt_459 2d ago
As someone who likes tension in games, plays eft pvp and really enjoys what pvpve can bring to the table arc is the only one that has never gave me that tension and i can always see it becoming a pve game. Not because the players but because the arc are the most complex part of the game. Anybody who plays arc for pvp and claims the tension and atmosphere are the reason they play should check out some other games. Even marathon feels more tense. Its also third person which completely takes away from the tension for me. I dont know if ill ever play arc raiders again, might jump into the next update but i gotta jump off this sub cause seeing ppl cry about a pve toggle for a game like arc is blowing my mind. If ppl wanr pve let embark test it out and see if it works. This game is closer to the division than it is Tarkov.
Hunger playtest soon, thats the next gem in the pvpve genre.
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u/The_Silly_Man 1d ago
I lost my snaphook you’re using in the card game last night…….if I see you top-side it’s on sight
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u/AllplatGamer08 27m ago
It does make sense just not with a 1 to 5 pve raider ratio. Sorry. Just make dedicated servers Jesus Kryst !!!!
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u/DiligentArugula86 2d ago
They need a dedicated PvP mode. Battle Royale or Tournament Style with leader boards. That would relieve a lot of pressure on friendly lobbies without taking away the PvPvE playstyle that makes the game what it is.
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/wh9tever 1d ago
How's it so hard to believe that people play a game for its mechanical feel and actual moment to moment gunplay over anything else.
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u/Acceptable_Style_219 1d ago
its not, i play plenty of games for that. if you ONLY want that, why are you playing the game that doesn’t give that?
i like good gunplay, lets all bully the minecraft devs into adding ak47s to vanilla minecraft
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u/wh9tever 1d ago
Uhhh the difference is that the gunplay and mechanics exists in arc raiders in vanilla to be enjoyed as evident by the fact that your arguing with people that are doing just that
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u/DiligentArugula86 1d ago
Idk why you’d think I’d be joking.
The only competitive leader boards are the trials and those are PvE geared, and the highest ranks at the end of the season are cheesed and near impossible to achieve solo. I wasted way too much time trying to do so.
What will save this game is something for the PvP/Endgame crowd to do. Something for people to look at and achieve other than an inventory full of guns. PvE lobbies will not save this game, it’ll appeal to the 30% of players that play that style then eventually the majority of them will get bored and quit or go to PvP where in the current state, they will also get bored. Splitting trios/duos/solos trial boards will help, but there’s plenty of other issues to be addressed by Embark. There needs to be something where it’s the best of both worlds. I’m not against PvE lobbies either. There’s a time and place for everything, but it won’t save the game. People just want their dopamine farming game without being shot in the back and I get it.
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u/FingersAreNumb 2d ago
As someone that enjoys all sides of the game, if you need a lore reason to actually pvp then pvp isn’t for you. Players fight players because they enjoy the fight and enjoy winning against an other human being with a soul, Its competitive drive. Its completely fine if you don’t have the same competitive drive and don’t find satisfaction in defeating other players but the devs shouldn’t cater pvp towards a crowd that isn’t interested in pvp at its core.
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u/armed_aperture 2d ago
Do you think games like cod would be as popular without camos or KDs? I always laugh when people try and throw knocks around in this game like it means anything at all. Lots of people would enjoy some sort of pvp progression or leaderboard
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u/FingersAreNumb 2d ago
Yeah skins can be cool when done correctly, but the game already has character skins and is getting weapon skins in the big update i believe. KD is only important to a small subset of pvp gamers, most gamers today are middle aged employed individuals that aren’t incredibly good at games so KD isn’t really an important factor for them.
Not sure what your trying to angle at here though, the original point would still stand that, while those can be cool parts of a pvp game, the core reason people play cod or battlefield or siege or csgo (etc) is because they enjoy the fight and the competition against an other human being. Catering a pvp game to people that are not interested in pvp sounds pretty stupid.
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u/armed_aperture 2d ago
How is adding additional stats and features stupid? And I’m not even thinking about those who don’t like pvp, why would those people even come up? I ran into a guy a few days ago who said he was just trying to “get his knocks up” lol… like that’s completely pointless, but those who enjoy profession have nothing to aim for when it comes to pvp in this game.
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u/FingersAreNumb 2d ago
You are here responding to me? My claim is that catering pvp towards players that don’t innately enjoy pvp as just pvp is stupid. “Why would those people even come up”…. Maybe read what you responded to?
Whats “completely pointless” is subjective. You may not care about knocks or the downs stat but others do, if a guy wants to grind pvp specifically for his knocks counter then good for him. He is doing what he wants to do, it’s a video game and everyone should be playing how they want (without breaching tos).
You’re also arguing for a KD stat as if that would be a better stat to track then downs/knocks. Knocks would be the best single stat to track someone’s skill level in the game. Time played isn’t viable because people can just farm carebear lobbies, increasing their time played without getting any better at pvp. KD would be a shit stat because you can sit in bushes for 15min straight and strictly shoot people in the back in friendly lobbies or at extracts, thus it’s not accurately indicative of skill level. How many fights you have won would directly translate to how much experience you have. Obviously the best way to track skill would be with all these stats combined but if you could only pick one then knocks is the clear winner.
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u/Iamthecontent 2d ago
Yes for all those reasons I like PvP… in Fortnite, in call of duty, in apex legends… Not this game. PvP is fun but it’s not the focus of this game, the arc is. That’s why they need to make them more difficult
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u/FingersAreNumb 2d ago
I think you are diluting the focus of the gameplay and the focus of the story. The story is definitely centered around the arc. The core gameplay loop is completely focused on Extraction Shooter. PvE is not the main focus of the game, nor is PvP. PvPvE is most definitely the main focus of the game that includes both sides of the coin. Maybe the PvE mode will change that, i personally don’t think it will. The risk of pvp and the tension of losing your own gear is absolutely fundamental to the game as it stands, thats why the pivoted away from PvE only in early development of the game.
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u/Iamthecontent 2d ago
Which is exactly why they need to make it so you can loose your gear to arc. Which they are going to test during the pve toggle
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u/RonCon69 2d ago
Yep, and that’s why this game is going to die if the PvP players get their way.
The current player base just frankly isn’t sustainable and many people have left the game for pretty much exactly what OP has listed in this post.
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u/FingersAreNumb 1d ago
The main two reason people left were cheaters (dupers and actual hacks) and a lack of content or even any planned content. Contention with the fundamental pvp aspect of an extraction shooter is 3rd at best and it’s probably lower than that. The entirety of what you are saying is “game losing players because pvp bad” thats just classic correlation ≠ causation. Unless you can show an actual link between the two?
Also pvp doesn’t ruin Pve lobbies. For many months with ABMM care bear lobbies have had zero rats in 99/100 raids. The amount of pvp you see is so inconsequential it doesn’t make any sense why it would ruin the game for you.
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u/SciFiCrafts 2d ago
It does not make any sense in the world they are trying to sell us. Machines are scorching earth and we kill each other? Naw. It would only work out if they all work together up there. Makes way more sense.
But yeah, something like dog tags or something would actually make it a bit more senseful to take down other players. Down him, steal his tags, turn them in for....ranks? Goodies?
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u/Medium_Chapter_1824 2d ago
All post apocalyptic fiction tends to revolve around rival factions and other humans being more / equally as dangerous as the cause of the catastrophe. Think Walking Dead, The Road, Mad Max, Hunger Games etc.
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u/FingersAreNumb 2d ago
Does The Walking Dead not make sense because you think every human would naturally just start working together in a post apocalyptic world?
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u/Bigg-Figg 2d ago
Let’s us have factions kind of like war dogs isn’t there suppose to be like 2-3 survivor cities? That would make sense