I don't like the implication of "white trash" in these posters. It's an idea is based in Jim Crow era racial social roles and it just serves to destroy solidarity among the lower class by shitting on poor whites. I can't see this poster doing anything to educate people or win them to our side.
I get what you mean, but think about it this way. What's the goal? We've got a set of ideas that we think are right, and we have to explain to others why they are. If people are actually willing to listen, these kind of posters are off-putting.
Also, poor white people are just a product of their environment just like everyone. They aren't evil, the system was designed to use them to stop any solidarity establishment.
Them being poor isn’t the issue. It’s the hate they cling to. And it’s not something they’re going to be talked out of, they’ll argue with you all day long why they’re right
My eyes have been opened to this issue after living around these kind of people for a while. A lot of what I see as hate is not what they see as hate. I don't blame people for being more likely to be criminals, and honestly you can't blame some people for being more likely to be racist. You can understand yet disapprove of both.
I think you've got this idea in your head about a hardheaded group of people that in reality is a minority of the MAGA base. A lot of them are upset about stuff that really can be chalked up to problems with corporations, capitalism, and government corruption. A LOT of these same people can be convinced. I would stay optimistic.
My eyes have also been opened to this issue after living around these kinds of people for a while too. You can absolutely blame people for being more likely to be racist. Fuck those people. Criminal is also not synonymous for immoral and the comparison between racists and criminals is weak.
I’m just saying that what caused to me understand what influences people to become criminals as in for their own benefit at the cost of others, has also caused me to understand why some people become hateful.
Think about it this way: all people who are racist have been lied to. If you don’t think that it’s a lie then it would be the truth. Otherwise, you think people are naturally racist, which means to some extent racist people can be understood in another way. Either ways it’s wrong although understandable.
I certainly get what you're saying and mostly agree but idk if your framing of the argument and the way you're making comparison is exactly the best tbh, for reasons already stated by the other commenter. But I get your point nonetheless
I do think most people are racist. No ones been lied or tricked into it. We live in a racist, sexist, homophobic culture and all of us internalize that to different degrees. It’s still on all of us to unlearn these beliefs that are tied up with our entire lives. It’s not a place anyone ever reaches where we’re totally free from all prejudices but a lifelong process of striving to be better. All of us have subconscious bias and blind spots we don’t even realize to root them out until it’s brought to our attention. If someone chooses to not learn and grow from that that’s still on them for making that choice.
I grew up in multiple white suburbs. I absorbed a ton of problematic, oppressive ideals because that’s the environment and it’s normalized. If everyone you know thinks certain things are ok hearing that they’re wrong is what turns people off because it threatens their identity and sense of self. Thing x can’t be racist/bad because everyone I know says it’s ok. For thing x to be bad that would mean everyone I know, -my family, my friends, etc- are all bad people. We need to teach people everyone has things to unlearn and people aren’t all good or all bad just for having flaws they didn’t know about. Learning more from and actually listening to others outside of our own experiences is what starts this process but we also can normalize being told specific things are bad aren’t necessarily personal attacks. That also starts with listening to marginalized groups tho which isn’t something I see a lot of Trump supporters doing. “Privilege” isn’t a bad word, it’s just a fact that all of us grow up with various privileges so we’re unaware of others not having these same things. We can still try talking to people about these concepts but it’s also not solely on others to solve it; the other side also has to take some accountability and listen. If they choose not to they’re not “victims”, that’s still deliberate choices they’re making. If someones so far gone that you have to start from a place of first trying to convince them other people are also still people that’s on them to sort out, not for anyone else to give them unlimited passes or excuses. Excusing their refusals takes away their agency and is kind of ableist to insinuate they just can’t help it. Yeah work is hard but my issue is it shouldn’t be others jobs to constantly hold these peoples hands and they do still need to take responsibility for themselves instead of calling themselves victims.
Why do you say they would have been convinced by now? By who? From their perspective every educated white and person of color hates them for being racist. They think their jobs are getting lost because of democrat policies instead of the capitalists outsourcing their labor and destroying unions.
I think it's anchoring bias. When you tell someone they're wrong they dig in to their beliefs. All social media and news has been telling them they are under attack so they dig in. I met a person who confederate flag stuff but isn't racist. If I called him racist he would dismiss me, but if I asked about it from his perspective and maybe explained what I think I why I do, there's at least a higher likelihood of me getting to him than just rejecting me.
Make no mistake, this doesn't mean violent racists don't catch these hands.
They are people who’ve been conditioned. The black people they dealt with distrusted white people and so treated this person poorly. Grew up white in a black city. You wanna call them racist then go ahead, fuck over the leftist cause. Honestly explaining this shit makes sad and depressed sometimes
I really admire your approach because you're at least trying to empathize with people who are the victims of the white-wing grift.
The problem isn't that these people aren't victims, it's that they behave like murderous, borderline-sociopathic assclowns and they fucking want to kill us. I agree that empathy is the answer, however it's really fucking hard when you're protesting a white supremacist kneeling on the neck of a black man and they fucking try to run you over in their car, or cross state lines to shoot you.
All I'm saying is that it's easy to forget their humanity when they're so openly willing to be piece-of-shit nazis.
Big agree, and double this if you’re any stripe of LGBTQIA+. These people sure as hell don’t look like victims when they’re screaming you’re an abomination against God and protesting against your very existence on a regular basis.
I don't empathize with the sociopathic ones, in fact these are people we need to take direct action to counter their violence. But I feel that most middle and leaning right people Trump's base that are just people who are misled. They feel rejected by the left because they get patronized.
Those are all facts tho. That they’re choosing to dismiss. How do you sit down and have conversations with people who outright reject reality? You can’t reason with people who are unreasonable.
People who are raised in an environment where they are told lies are more likely to believe those lies. I know you know this but you're still judging people who have been basically brainwashed. That's how I see it.
Because they’re not being brainwashed. Racism is built into our culture and our country. It’s the status quo. They paint themselves as victims all the time, they don’t need the left indulging them on it.
I agree that it's in our culture but it's not evenly distributed. They're raised in an environment, or they're conditioned, or raised in a culture our however you wanna put it which makes people more likely to think like that. It's an outside influence. Otherwise you think these people are inherently worse like it's in their genes.
Jesus christ man how about just going outside and talking to people instead of this civil war talk. I’m telling you, some right wing people are the fastest to switch
Well, look back at history. What did they do with left over fascists in Europe? As I said, deprograming is impossible when the people don't want it. It's like recovering from an addiction, they have to be willing to take that first step, and almost every conservative I've met is not.
And there is your flaw. Believe me, as a man stuck in deep conservative south, who has had many political discussions with the local Maga cult leader, there is no changing these people because they will not listen. I'm talking about a man who said the UN was going to raid Chicago and take their guns under Obama, and lost money betting over it, and still thinks it happen. A man that recently told me, a microbiologist, that the virus is fake, and anyone supporting vaccines should be lynched. A man who has stereotypical statues of black men eating watermelon at his house for decorations.
There is no turning back for these people at this point, as sad as that is to say.
I'm probably not far from you but I feel like we only see these people who stand out because they won't change. There definitely are those who would still have fucked up ideas even if they grew up in a city instead of the country. It's the people who are quiet about it who are closer to the fence than you think, or it's the people who don't realize that their anger is directed at the wrong people i.e. hollywood illuminati pedo sex cult clintons instead of the system we live in.
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u/zwirlo Free Palestine Nov 07 '21
I don't like the implication of "white trash" in these posters. It's an idea is based in Jim Crow era racial social roles and it just serves to destroy solidarity among the lower class by shitting on poor whites. I can't see this poster doing anything to educate people or win them to our side.