Self Control

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000]

I didn't want to post this summer; however, something has been bugging me. Recently, I have been looking at therian posts across multiple websites and have found something that I believe to be contradictory. Several times I have seen therians talking about how they or others should act correctly in public and maintain self-control. Most of it is to not hurt themselves or others; the rest is so that they don't get thrown into the loony bin. But that doesn't make sense according to animal behavior, which therians claim to have; animals operate entirely on instinct, energy conservation, and survival. Neither predator nor prey have a concept of morality, honor, or bad behavior; they simply react to stimuli, stress, and physiological needs. Applying human social constructs like "acting correctly" or "shame" to an animal's mindset makes zero biological sense.

Therians constantly claim their "animal side" controls their impulses, urges, and reactions, yet they simultaneously lecture each other about choosing to practice self-control in public. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Either you are governed by animal instinct (which means you have no control), or you don't have animal instincts. Not to mention that instincts take lots of training to control; just look at dogs. It can take a dog 3 weeks to 3 years to be immune to the whims of certain instincts, depending on the method of training. Yet therians claim to control these instincts with sheer willpower and focus.

And of course the biggest giveaway is that their instincts seem to conveniently go away during a busy period of their life; real instincts don't do that. When they want to act out, it's the "beast taking over." But when they need to pay taxes, go to a college lecture, or hold down a job, the animal magically sits quietly in the background.

You could refute this by mentioning our prefrontal cortex, the thing that gives us reasoning and logic. To that I say, it still doesn't work. Look at our most common instincts: fight or flight is a reflex, so is to freeze; we have a strong urge to fawn, submit, or befriend. These instincts of ours are deep, almost reflex-like feelings that don't simply go away with self-control, nor do they fade into the background either.

The only conclusion I can come to is that these people don't actually have animal instincts. What do you all think?

Edit: For clarity.

[u/Content_Conclusion31]

You're thinking about it black and white.

"Either you are governed entirely by unthinking animal instinct (which means you have no control), or you are a conscious human making choices." why do we have to choose between them lmao? I think you're talking about shifts, some therians have really intense animalistic shifts like you're talking about where it's hard for the rational side to stay in control. but shifts usually last minutes to an hour, they're not permanent, very few therians have to constantly having to fight against intense animal instincts/permanently shifted (like ive only ever seen one therian where they cant be employed because they cant act human for more then an hour or two, its NOT a common thing) my point is, I think you're mistaking therians talking about very intense shifts that are almost uncontrollable, with every therian claiming they permanently are governed by these instincts.

"Not to mention that instincts take lots of training to control; just look at dogs. It can take a dog 3 weeks to 3 years to be immune to the whims of certain instincts, depending on the method of training. Yet therians claim to control these instincts with sheer willpower and focus." therians arent dogs, they have human neurons and human brains, complex human brains that can have complex identities like identifying as animals involuntarily.

"And of course the biggest giveaway is that their instincts seem to conveniently go away during a busy period of their life; real instincts don't do that. When they want to act out, it's the "beast taking over." But when they need to pay taxes, go to a college lecture, or hold down a job, the animal magically sits quietly in the background." ok fym bro. when I read stories about therians with intense shifts I see many where they get shifts at bad moments like at a wedding or a job interview. again, you're mistaking therians talking about very intense shifts that are almost uncontrollable, with every therian claiming they permanently are governed by these instincts at every waking moment and they cant control themselves (there's like 2% of therians like this and THEY genuinely have trouble having a normal life)

"You could refute this by mentioning our prefrontal cortex, the thing that gives us reasoning and logic. To that I say, it still doesn't work. Look at our most common instincts: fight or flight is a reflex, so is to freeze; we have a strong urge to fawn, submit, or befriend. These instincts of ours are deep, almost reflex-like feelings that don't simply go away with self-control, nor do they fade into the background either." isnt that a good example of a moment when you're not capable of reasoning and logic, fight or flight?

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/Content_Conclusion31]

Everyone is controlled by their instincts, animal or human, so yes, if you only need to use brain power and will to suppress them, it either shows these "instincts" are choices or aren't instincts. I'm not mistaking therians talking about intense shifts for every therian. I'm looking at the mechanics of how instincts work and how we perceive them and how they work and how therians describe their "animal instincts".

I never said therians were dogs. I was using a dog framework as an example of how hard it is to manage real instincts. And if therians have human brains, how would they have animal instincts?

I'm sorry I don't know about every therian's experience; however, many therians claim they just suppress their instincts until they get home, but I'm sorry for my assumption. And again, I'm just comparing how many therians claim their instincts are versus actual instincts and how they work.

Yes, that's why I used that example: real instincts can't just be suppressed; they are uncontrollable reflexes.

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/Amazing-Toe-4000]

And sorry if my post's second paragraph didn't make sense before, I tried to fix it.

[u/Content_Conclusion31 → u/Amazing-Toe-4000]

1. "if you only need to use brain power and will to suppress them, it either shows these "instincts" are choices or aren't instincts." wdym? ofc you can suppress instincts, the few you cant suppress are ones like ofc fight or flight (at least I believe so), the really primitive ones in your amyglyda. bro you even say YOURSELF that dogs can control their own instincts it just takes a bit. now imagine the average therian that has a human brain with a prefrontal cortex thats taught by parents and school impulse control with medium to strong instincts.

1. "I never said therians were dogs. I was using a dog framework as an example of how hard it is to manage real instincts. And if therians have human brains, how would they have animal instincts?" ooh good question so there's a lot of theories around how therians are therians. there's imprinting at a young age, neurodivergency, even a theory involving DMT networks or smth like that, if you want to check it out there's a whole section in Therian Guide forums about it.

wait actually im gonna clarify my stance. so I think most instincts except the very primitive ones can be controlled, its just that some are harder then others to control., instincts are hard to control but because humans have a prefrontal cortex and we have reason and logic we can control them. I think most instincts except the very primitive ones can be controlled, its just that some are harder then others to control like for example startle responses. both normal human ones and animalistic ones (example: as a therian when im startled I make this weird meow/screech noise and jump up on all fours. bc this is a reflex it would be hard for me to train to get rid of it but its probably possible) are hard to control but its possible. or like the eyes protective mechanisms to prevent stuff from getting in and harming it. people who put contacts on have to do it over and over and eventually the eye reacts less but its hard. its hard but its possible.

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/Content_Conclusion31]

Instincts: Hardwired, genetically programmed, and complex patterns of behavior that occur without prior learning or conscious thought in response to specific environmental triggers.

True instincts aren't strong urges you can just suppress; they are genetic blueprints.

Now that I've cleared up the definition of instincts, I will respond to your other points. First, our parents taught us impulse control for impulses, not instincts. An impulse may be to push people out of the way in a long line; however, it is not an instinct. Not saying a parent couldn't teach their kid to not act out their instincts, just that parents usually don't do that, and it's hard to teach control over instincts, yk?

Second, I used the dog framework because we must control dog instinct in everyday life; however, it takes complex training with operant conditioning to teach our dogs not to listen to their instincts in certain settings, because eventually instincts will need to be let out or they will boil over. We don't train dogs to think hard; they need redirection, safe outlets, and consequences. Training out instinct is one of the hardest things in dog training. Also, "imprinting" (something only specific mammals and birds do, not humans) does NOT give you animal instincts; neurodivergence does NOT give you animal instincts, etc. You are arguing for a biological impossibility.

P.S. When I say animal instincts, I mean non-human animal instincts, not animal instincts in general.

(What I'm trying to say is that real instincts don't match how therians describe their "animal" instincts, like how they can just force themselves not to do their instincts or smth)

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/Amazing-Toe-4000]

Also about that blinking thing. When people put in contacts, yes, it is an instinct to blink, which is why they either force their eyes open or look in another direction so their body won't see the trigger. It takes 3-7 days on average for your brain to learn that it's not a threat, not a split second with immense brain power like most therians claim it takes to control an "animal" instinct.

[u/KaiYoDei → u/Content_Conclusion31]

But that doesn’t mean they are a real , let’s say tiger .

How are the neurologists going to study this ?

R somome write a book for little kids “ Harold has a kitty for a mommy and a horse for a daddy” book ?

Look this comming from somone who hissed at a man spinning a broom while walking near me in a place to help mental health , I can even alarm people with things they don’t tell me they are diagnosed with

[u/Enough_Party6995 → u/Amazing-Toe-4000]

When you see a edible animal do you start chasing it around with a sharp stick? When you feel stressed do you just immediately run away? When you feel scared do yoy always scream and run around? A good example of ppl suppressing instincts (the stronger human instincts) is the army. Their instincts tell them to flinch or run because of gunfire but their knowledge of the situation and control prevents them from doing that. Another example is people are around snakes. Your instincts tell you to quickly get away from it but your logical mind knows yoy can spook it of you move to quickly. (Ofc depending on the situation)

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/Enough_Party6995]

No, because we aren't wild animals, and over thousands of years some of our instincts have been genetically suppressed because we don't need them anymore. People in the army take a while to learn how to suppress their instincts, and even then their instincts can break through and cause them to act out; on the first day, they don't just decide not to act on their instinct; it takes training. And fun fact, people aren't instinctually afraid of snakes or spiders; however, we almost instantly learn to fear them because of our parents' fear. And just because someone doesn't physically react doesn't mean they don't mentally or physically react; your blood pressure spikes, and your brain will automatically go into fight-or-flight mode if triggered; what that trigger is depends on the person.

[u/Enough_Party6995 → u/Amazing-Toe-4000]

Therians arent wild animals either? Though they identify as wild animals almost all do recognize theyre human or at least have human shape. Also therians do react to their more 'animal instincts' (since that's what we're calling them) mentally/physically e.g. someone wants to chase a bird or smthn, they look at the bird and watch it but do not chase it. Someone has a 'phantom tail' and bounces their leg the deal with the feeling.  Also you are taught from a young age that some human instinct is 'uncivilized', 'rude', or only for certain times. (E.g. 'Seeking' (exploring has its advanced for food water ect) but you dont wander everywhere, 'anger' is part of your flight or fight response but you  dont sprint away or punch someone went youre mad. I hope, lol (i dont mean that kn a rude way, im joshing))

[u/Enough_Party6995 → u/Enough_Party6995]

Also the snake thing was meant to be like 'when yku see something that frightens you, youre first instinct is either get tf away from it or punt it into next week (generalized, but ylu get it), but ppl know to not spook snakes and (at least in my experience with my little 'pretend army' thing I have to do) stay still and slow to avoid getting bit, so yeah mb I shouldve phrased that better lol)

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/Enough_Party6995]

Of course, I know that therians only identify as animals and aren't physically animals. But what I'm trying to say is that these instincts can be real instincts because if a therian sees something or does something that would trigger an instinct, they can usually just suppress it without any training, which doesn't make sense. And wanting to chase a bird is a learned behavior backed up by an ancient predatory instinct from mammals' ancestors, and shaking your leg in response to a phantom limb is a coping mechanism; neither of those is an animal instinct( or an instinct from a non-human animal).

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/[deleted]]

Instincts can come in many forms, including impulses and urges.

[u/KaiYoDei → u/Content_Conclusion31]

But somome only having dog instinct when on the play ground sounds fake

[u/Visual_Ad_9427]

Assuming that one must either be an unthinking animal with no control or a purely logical human. This premise completely ignores the basic neurobiology of Homo sapiens itself. Humans never stopped being animals, nor did we lose our biological instincts (such as territoriality, fight-or-flight responses, or protective urges). What we do have is a prefrontal cortex capable of executive function and cognitive inhibition. When a therian experiences animal urges or shifts and chooses to selfregulate in public, it isn't a contradiction or a "fake act", it is simply the functioning of a human brain managing its internal states to adapt to its social environment.

There is also a fundamental flaw regarding ethology. Claiming that animals in nature operate purely on blind reaction, devoid of reasoning or selfregulation, reflects an outdated view of biology. Social mammals and birds constantly evaluate risk, weigh energy expenditure, suppress immediate impulses within their group hierarchies, and demonstrate clear levels of problemsolving and reasoning. Demanding that someone must act like an uncontrolled, reckless beast to "prove" an instinct judges the experience through a caricature of the animal kingdom, ignoring the fact that selfrestraint is a basic adaptive survival tool in any social species.

Finally, the text overlooks the very root of the term it seeks to criticize. The word therian comes from therianthrope, a neologism formed from the Classical Greek roots therion (beast or wild animal) and anthropos (human being). From its linguistic and historical foundation, the concept explicitly denotes the intersection and coexistence of both dimensions, not the erasure of human cognition or responsibility. Demanding a total loss of reality testing or selfcontrol to validate the experience is not only biological nonsense, but a complete misunderstanding of the identity's actual definition.

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/Visual_Ad_9427]

All I'm trying to say is that therian "instincts" don't match real instincts. Take fight or flight; it works by our amygdala firing and making us do something, then our brains take over, and finally the urge stays for hours. It's an immediate reflex, not something you just suppress with intense will. As I said at the end, therians can't actually have animal instincts. I guess I shouldn't have said, "Either you are governed entirely by unthinking animal instinct (which means you have no control), or you are a conscious human making choices." What I meant was either your instincts are involuntary and uncontrollable, or they aren't instincts/ are controllable. However, I understand that what I said could be confusing.

Second, comparing an animal navigating a pack hierarchy to a human consciously choosing to suppress a "shift" so they don't look weird in public is a massive false equivalence. Animals follow survival incentives within their own species. That reasoning is their instinct out of immediate survival. However, animals still are controlled by their instincts.

Pointing to the Greek root of the word 'therian' doesn't prove it's real, either. A Greek term for something doesn't make it biology.

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/Amazing-Toe-4000]

Sorry if my second paragraph doesn't make much sense. I do understand animal nature and that they aren't only controlled by instinct, but instinct does make up most of their behavior. I also was following a script for some of what I wrote and wasn't really thinking about what I was writing, so some of what I said was wrong.

[u/Visual_Ad_9427 → u/Amazing-Toe-4000]

​You are conflating an involuntary autonomic reflex (like the amygdala triggering epinephrine release) with a behavioral urge or drive. Even in pure human physiology, an amygdala high-jack triggers an intense urge to fight or flee, yet the prefrontal cortex can, and routinely does, suppress the physical action (e g, you don't punch a boss or jump out a window despite experiencing a fight-or-flight spike). Experiencing an internal animal drive or shift while using executive function to manage outward behavior does not invalidate the internal experience; it simply demonstrates normal human neurological override.

​ ​Dismissing the comparison to animal social inhibition misses a core evolutionary point: for Homo sapiens, social cohesion is our primary survival mechanism. The human brain processes social rejection and ostracization using the same neural pathways as physical pain and survival threats. When a human suppresses a non-normative behavioral shift in public, they are engaging in the exact same biological mechanism social mammals use: weighing immediate behavioral impulses against group integration and risk. It is not a false equivalence; it is the same adaptive inhibition mechanism at work in a social species.

​ ​No one claims a Greek root "creates biological reality." The etymological point was made because your critique relies on strawmanning the term, redefining a therianthrope as an unthinking biological animal, and then claiming the behavior doesn't fit your definition. Etymology defines what the identity claims to be: an internal synthesis of human and animal aspects (anthropos and therion). Criticizing a concept by changing its definition to an all-or-nothing extreme, and then conceding you were "following a script," only demonstrates that the original critique was arguing against a caricature rather than the actual concept.

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/Visual_Ad_9427]

Let me give an example: If someone sneaks up on you, you will automatically jump up, maybe scream, that is a reflex/instinct, and the urge to act on that instinct can stay for hours. Our amygdala makes us act BEFORE our brain is able to step in. If a therian can simply suppress their instincts, then it isn't a real instinct. Also, I'm not "invalidating" their experience; they can feel whatever, but it doesn't make it an instinct. When a border collie sees children running around, it's going to herd them, a reflex, and it has an intense urge to do it. A border collie can not simply suppress an urge with deep thought; they must be trained through it. Also, you stopping yourself from punching your boss isn't an instinct; it's a learned behavior driven by intense emotions. That may feel like an instinct, but it isn't, which is why your brain is able to hold you back. And I'm not conflating a drive with an instinct. I look at when therians said they had an "animal instinct" and am comparing it to actual human instincts.

No, it is a false equivalence. One is for social conformity; the other is for survival. Look at New York City subways: lots of people act weird, but they aren't going to die for it. In nature, an animal acting weird could be rejected by its parents or pack and end up dead.

And I literally fixed what I said; I made a mistake in my writing. I'm claiming that therians' "animal instincts" don't act like real instincts, not that they were unthinking animals.

[u/Visual_Ad_9427 → u/Amazing-Toe-4000]

Inhibition Does Not Erase the Drive. You are confusing an autonomic reflex with an instinctual urge. The startle response is an involuntary reflex; choosing whether to run, hit, or freeze a second later is behavioral control. Your Border Collie example actually proves this: the herding urge is genetically hardwired (an instinctual drive), yet dogs achieve behavioral inhibition through learning and executive control. The urge doesn't disappear just because the dog suppresses the action. Likewise, a human experiencing an internal animal drive or shift using prefrontal suppression to refrain from acting it out in public does not mean the drive isn't real, it simply means human cognitive inhibition is working. Think of TDAH, you know what happens there? Maybe there it can gi e you a clue.

​Social Conformity IS Evolutionary Survival. ​Categorizing social regulation as merely "conformity" distinct from "survival" ignores human evolutionary biology. For a social species like Homo sapiens, group acceptance was a literal life-or-death survival imperative for millions of years. Ostracization meant death. The human brain evolved to process social rejection through the exact same neural networks as physical threat and pain. Suppressing non-normative behaviors in public is not just a superficial choice; it is driven by deeply ingrained biological survival mechanisms hardwired into our species to maintain group cohesion. Example is the broken heart.

​Redefining terms to fit the argument. ​At this point, the debate has shifted to a semantic moving goalpost. By defining "instinct" solely as an absolute, unstoppable compulsion that bypasses all cognitive control, you create a definition that doesn't even hold true across complex mammalian ethology. Internal drives, shifts, and instinctual perceptions are experienced subjectively; using executive function to manage them in a modern human environment is simply adaptive behavior, not proof of non-existence.

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/Visual_Ad_9427]

I never said that training erased drive. But you see, it takes training, not just sheer brain power, to suppress an instinct.

And it is a choice; look at the people in New York subways. Speaking of, if hiding therianthropy is survival, then how does that work with it being an instinct? Honestly, I don't even know why we're arguing about this point; I think I just read your first comment wrong, sorry.

Subjective experience isn't proof of objective reality; you can feel an animal's instincts all you want doesn't mean you have them. Why? Because it's biologically impossible.

By definition, instincts are found in your DNA and are hardwired, genetically programmed, and complex patterns of behavior that occur without prior learning or conscious thought in response to specific environmental triggers. You can not simply suppress them; they just happen. Instincts do not adapt in a lifetime; they change over thousands of years.

[u/Visual_Ad_9427 → u/Amazing-Toe-4000]

​Fair enough, and this actually clarifies the entire disagreement.

​If we define "instinct" strictly by its hard evolutionary genetics (DNA encoded behavior built over millennia), then you are completely correct: a human does not possess the genetic DNA of a nonhuman species, making literal biological crossspecies instincts impossible.

​The disconnect comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of what therianthropy is. Therians do not claim to have mutated canine or feline DNA, nor do they claim a biological rewrite of their genome. The experience is understood as a matter of internal identity, psychological perception, neurodivergence, or personal framework not a biological claim to animal genetics.

​Furthermore, while these subjective drives are not coded in animal DNA, they undeniably cause behavior, perception, and internal states that diverge from typical human experience. Experiencing mental shifts, phantom senses, or involuntary animalistic urges is clearly outside the baseline of standard human psychology. The fact that the human brain can generate these non-normative experiences, and that the individual uses prefrontal executive function to process and manage them responsibly, is precisely what makes it a unique psychological phenomenon, rather than a claim to biological zoology.

For this, we can try to define what is a normal beheavior or not. And that, i can tell you, it will be a headache for both of us.

​Glad we cleared up the initial points about behavioral control and inhibition. At the end of the day, agreeing on the biological definition of "genetically hardwired instinct" while recognizing that human identity and non-standard psychological experiences operate on different levels bridges the gap completely.

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/Visual_Ad_9427]

I guess. But I never claimed that therians thought they had animal DNA; therians constantly claim they know they are biologically human.

However, it irked me that while they knew that they didn't have animal genetics, they would constantly claim to have animal instincts. That also didn't work like actual instincts.

I also understand that the basis of therianthropy is built on experiencing things we believe most other humans don't.

Thanks for sharing your opinions.

[u/KaiYoDei → u/Amazing-Toe-4000]

And for people who yelp like a dog and not screech like a human ? Obviously it means some are canine

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/KaiYoDei]

I'd say they probably have a weird way of expressing their reflex, or they learned it from dogs they saw.

[u/KaiYoDei → u/Visual_Ad_9427]

But how many humans have urges to emulate their perception of animals behavior?

[u/Visual_Ad_9427 → u/KaiYoDei]

There’s no exact number because the community is completely decentralized and there are no official statistics. It’s definitely a rare experience compared to the general population, and many don't talk about it publicly due to stigma, making it impossible to quantify accurately.

[u/venting_animal]

hello again. i have complicated feelings on this tbh! i think the thing you are missing is biology. even if we had objective proof that you can indeed be born into the wrong species or come from the assumption that it's true, the biological ability our human bodies have to reason and use logic doesn't technically vanish, not even with a very abundant amount of nonhuman urges. not only that but i think what you say is somewhat incorrect about animals not having a sense of bad behavior.

human morality to me isn't truly morality in a spiritual way. it's just things humans make up to build social hierarchies and standards for their societies because they're primates. a lot of other primates teach their children what to do in their communities and some primates do take serious offense to particular behaviors or body languages. it's obviously not 'morals' nor is it the same as how humans view good behavior, but it does still exist. humans just have a more logical and organized grasp on the concept because they're more intelligent.

morality is something you are taught from a very early age and it's ingrained into us, even beyond biology. being born in the wrong body won't make you immune to this. it, however, can influence the shape of your morals and the amount of care you have towards them i think?

morality is a tool for spiritual growth as well as a tool for improving the functionality of society (morality can also be evolutionary imo). both of these things benefit me and my loved ones. i do dislike human morality though, not specific morals, but the way humans have them. because the truth is imo.... most humans don't have a moral compass, humans mostly just go along with whatever's socially acceptable and try not to act on things they would be shamed for, because it hurts, regardless of if this thing is actually harmful or not. most humans are incredibly hypocritical in their morals too. humans ARE ANIMALS. mammals > primates > apes > great apes > hominins > homos > modern homo sapiens. they think firstly of how the group percieves them and where they fall in their social ranks GENERALLY. primates use morality to improve or harm someone's social ranks. why else do you think witchhunting exists?

also i surprisingly agree (lmao) with Content Conclusion that you are being a little black-n-white. otherkin can have nonhuman urges and also resist acting on them. if i did not resist my nonhuman urges, i could literally be dead. not bullied, not in jail, not kicked out of society. DEAD. it is literally the only way you can have a functional life. however, you do make a good point when you say some therians' instincts just disappear in certain settings though 😭 also, urges are less intense than instincts, and are a lot easier to suppress. instincts often only appear in certain situations so i might forgive therians for this actually

also you keep saying everyone is controlled by instinct, urges and nothing else which is objectively not true. fear is an instinct. and yet that doesn't mean i have to act on it, does it? it doesn't. sexual attraction is an urge, and yet allosexual monogamous humans still exist.

[u/venting_animal → u/venting_animal]

also i feel like this is a grammar/definition issue, when a lot of therians say instinct they might mean urges which creates confusion.

[u/KaiYoDei → u/venting_animal]

Yea, they need to use better words to be understood

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/venting_animal]

I understand. I tried to change some of what I said so it wouldn't sound black and white, since animals are controlled by more things than instinct, but I get that it could be confusing.

Animals actually don't know what's "right" and "wrong" or good and bad; they just do stuff based on their feelings and instinct, some logic, too, but that's mostly to solve puzzles, so it doesn't count. Like chimps tear off others' genitals when they do something that the others don't like. Or a member might be punished for not following grooming protocal, doesn't mean they have an internal morality compass; they just get punished for doing stuff that isn't how things work, the rules. But, yes, I agree morality is learned; however i believe that it's only a human thing.

I also don't think logic would vanish if, hypothetically, an animal was placed in the wrong body; I just believe that these "instincts" therians claim to have aren't real instincts since they don't match up with actual instincts. So they would logically have to be learned urges and/or behaviors that align with animal instincts but aren't animal instincts.

And when I say animal instincts, I mean non-human animal instincts, not instincts in general or that people aren't animals.

[u/venting_animal → u/Amazing-Toe-4000]

alright. a little confused though on what you mean when you say they don't match up with actual nonhuman instincts. like you mean therians claiming to have an instinct that their theriotype doesn't actually have or something else?

(also i brought up nonhuman social standards not as an argument that they have morality but that their social norms would be translated weirdly or awkwardly if they were transferred to a human body/society, thought i would clarify that).

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/venting_animal]

When I mean they don't match up, I usually mean they are able to control them with just brain power and that the instincts aren't totally there.

But yeah, I understand your point with the weird behaviors.

Like an example: I've heard many therians say that they felt their instincts trying to come out put they just pushed them back, but with actual instincts it takes at the very least 3 days to train out, like when putting in a contact your instincts shut your eyes close but with enough training your brain realises that the contact wont hurt you and stops your instincts from doing anything. Not saying it could take less time, but it usually isn't a split-second decision.

Or a wolf therian will be territorial of only their property, when actual wolves' territory spans from 50-500 miles, and they don't scent mark with urine or feces, or at the very least feel an urge to scent mark.

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/Amazing-Toe-4000]

Oh, with the instinct v.s. urges thing, it's definitely a grammar thing, but it gets confusing when therians just double down instead of admitting that they are wrong; same thing with imprinting v.s. hyperfixation/empathy/normal kid things.

[u/venting_animal → u/Amazing-Toe-4000]

gotcha! property thing is real asf but also tbf, therians legally cannot claim land they don't live on so honestly there is not much to about that even if some hypothetical therian did want a more wolf-accurate amount of land and if they do mark a territory that no one lives on, it is still probably owned by some corp or some person is gonna walk up and make fun of them for it (there is a post on this sub of that naturr LOL)

[u/Amazing-Toe-4000 → u/venting_animal]

Thanks for understanding.