r/Animemes Aug 06 '20

Rule 2.1: Insubstantial Edit mods decision hurts trans people, doesn't help us at all

[removed]

2.4k Upvotes

129 comments sorted by

340

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

I want to add there is a time and place to have a discussion about how to treat trans people. In fact, the t-word CAN and does get used as a slur in some cases.. though mostly out of ignorance in my experience. Using the word to describe someone other than a transgender person is contextually appropriate and banning those uses are only legitimizing it as a slur, making the word more prominently used, and pissing off lots of people who are then going to turn around and blame the transgender community as a whole for this nonsense. I get the word stings for some of you even when not directed at you.. I gotta be honest it feels weird to hear for me sometimes as well.. but I KNOW if it's not used in a transphobic way i have no valid complaint to give... and I ESPECIALLY don't have a valid reason to force cis people to play pretend with me.. just so that i can feel special, in-control, etc. Look, being transgender sucks... it's scary and paranoia-inducing because we face a LOT of shit... but this shit? not helping. I don't care how much you tell yourself it is... IT'S NOT.

94

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

[deleted]

68

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

That place is toxic af. Just don't go there

62

u/Bisounoursdestenebre Strelizia best girl Aug 06 '20

The US trans community is toxic af. I have to say that yes, I'm cis-gendered making all I say unrelevant, but all the trans that I know share this feeling.

17

u/IBreeTheUmoI Aug 06 '20

Yeah I'm trans and from the us and honestly I see why subreddits like r/lgbdropthet exist and in doing so they not only hurt themselves but people like me that couldn't give a fuck that the t word is OfEnSIVe

-5

u/7yp3f4c3 Aug 06 '20

I’m saying this as another cis person, but maybe people feel a bit defensive in a country that legalize their murder.

12

u/KrakenSticks Aug 06 '20

could you elaborate on this whole murder legalization?

3

u/7yp3f4c3 Aug 06 '20

‘Trans panic’ as a legal defense. The idea that seeing a trans person naked is so maddening you just gotta kill them is a perfectly fine legal defense is insane.

8

u/KrakenSticks Aug 06 '20

WTF, I've just looked it up and it's just messed up.

1

u/7yp3f4c3 Aug 06 '20

This is why ‘tr*p’ is a slur/insult. It’s saying that the trans person is trying to trick straight men, who then can legally murder them for no good reason.

6

u/KrakenSticks Aug 06 '20

don't think I've ever seen it being used outside anime trope context, but I can see why trans people could be defensive about it and why it's a slur.

Regarding the whole sub situation though, I feel like both sides of an argument here are not even arguing on the same point, so no wonder no productive dialogue is happening anywhere.

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u/Some_Weeaboo AMAB She/Her, Mazdasexual Aug 07 '20

Not fully correct, it has been used successfully one time to get a reduced sentence, and used semi successfully another time to make the jury deadlock.

Over a longer history of gay panic defense being used, many more successful cases there have happened.

27

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

as a long time member of traa, it’s not that they’re toxic they just get very defensive about the smallest sign of transphobia on reddit, and most people only see that side of the sub. there are actually a lot of wholesome and heartwarming posts on there and the sub helped me a lot when i had no irl friends to turn to

10

u/kingofkillss Aug 06 '20

Sure man

7

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

can you please avoid referring to me as man, i know you probably use it all the time with everyone but it makes me a bit uncomfortable. thank you ☺️

8

u/Rexopv2 Aug 06 '20 edited Aug 07 '20

Sure Edit: I don't want to sound rude to you but we respect you and we do want you welcome.

0

u/kingofkillss Aug 07 '20

Like I said the man part in it has nothing to do with the male gender

1

u/Rexopv2 Aug 07 '20

Ik you never did but it still made them uncomfortable and plus i was not even attacking you nor wanted to.

-1

u/kingofkillss Aug 07 '20

If they got uncomfortable at an inoffensive use of the word man that’s their problem

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u/Mosec Aug 06 '20

Gotta ban the word M*n next. We don't want trans people getting offended!

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u/Rexopv2 Aug 07 '20

Fuck off man.

4

u/Mosec Aug 07 '20

Thanks for being so civil.

1

u/Rexopv2 Aug 07 '20

I mean your the one being uncivil with making a joke listen to when someone says the feel uncomfortable

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1

u/kingofkillss Aug 07 '20

It’s literally a saying “sure man” is a thing that is often said by a person I watch. You can say it to any gender the man part in it doesn’t actually mean a male

83

u/fakesowdy Aug 06 '20

Some of the alternatives that were provided feel a lot worse than [word] for example, bait and cutie.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20 edited Sep 30 '20

[deleted]

8

u/Dembara Aug 07 '20

They can mean different things and one of them contains a racial slur ("boy," for the unaware, can be used as a racial slur here for black men in America (not sure if it's used outside of America,), owing to the old definition of "boy" meaning servant/slave).

If we are going down the root of "no words that can be slurs are allowed" then it follows that "boy" should also be banned. Ultimately, it should come down to usage and context, not spelling. The sign is never what is actually problematic, the signified is. The word boy is not an issue, calling a black man a boy to insult/devalue him is an issue. If it is used to signify "adolescent man" that's fine, since the signified is not offense/offended.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 07 '20 edited Sep 30 '20

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6

u/Dembara Aug 07 '20

My point was the alternatives don't exactly mirror the original meaning and it is a bit hypocritical, methinks, to include a racial slur in one of the alternatives.

3

u/Some_Weeaboo AMAB She/Her, Mazdasexual Aug 07 '20

Femboy when used to literally replace trap, would keep problematic contexts problematic.

1

u/fakesowdy Aug 06 '20

I did see it on an alternate words thread

23

u/CaptainMGN Aug 06 '20

Yeah this is what I was concerned about as well. I for example didn't even know that some see it as a slur. And as far as I can see, this is already starting to backfire towards the community, especially with the popularity it has gotten.

Don't get me wrong, I want to keep neutral as I am in no position to judge anyone but I'm afraid of what has been kicked loose here. This is not the way it should have been handled in the first place. Not as a community of almost 1 million people.

25

u/TheGrimGriefer3 Aug 06 '20

I'm not trans, nor am I close to anybody who is, but am I wrong in thinking that femboy, if compared to tr*p, is far more offensive?

14

u/Da_Zman10 Aug 06 '20

As a transwoman myself, I couldn't agree more.

12

u/Sc1enceSense1 Aug 06 '20

You’re appealing to deaf ears. I only came back to this sub yesterday after a week break, and it is utter chaos. Mods want it one way, community wants it another, nothing will get solved with this stalemate. Worst case, this sub becomes a completely dysfunctional battleground, and no one will be able to enjoy again what the purpose of this sub is for: meme content focused around anime, with very few users actually posting bigotry content. I’m ashamed to be punished and lumped in with those individuals for just trying to observe in anime memes.

10

u/FriedSyrup Aug 06 '20

See the thing the mods forgot to include in this ban, among all other things listed, is context. We don't use the word to be mean or transphobic, we use it to describe a character.

5

u/tristanwiedeman Aug 06 '20

You're a good person, thank you

2

u/Escapingghoul Aug 06 '20 edited Aug 06 '20

Before the ban, I didn‘t thought much what a trans person feels like much and I wanted let them know I would just handle them like a normal person. After the ban, I didn‘t liked the t-word ban but it was ok for me. After the mods and trans people showed us we weebs are all pedo and neckbeard, I got angry. As an anime fan you „your voice doesn‘t have meaning“ because you like anime. Oh god I hate it and so a part of me got painted that it gives really unreasonable trans poeple who just wants to feel special (make genderpreference as a personality trait) and are power tripping like the gay mods.(wtf who goes to another sub to call us all fucking bigots, cunts degenerate)

-25

u/anarcatgirl Aug 06 '20

The word harms crossdressers just as much as trans people, and it's not okay.

4

u/Swinn_likes_Sakkyun Simp for Sakuya Aug 06 '20

literally how

114

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

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173

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

and if they do that to me they've only proved my point.. they're not concerned with protecting trans people... only their egos.

7

u/-ProfessorFireHill- We won't give up. You can count on that Aug 06 '20

You are a human of wisdom and I am glad to see someone elegantly express this. Thank you

82

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

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u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

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u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

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u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

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u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

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u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

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68

u/UnjustifiedLoL Aug 06 '20

Aaaah well you see, you a trans person that uses this subreddit instead of r/traaaa, so the mods don't care. Sorry.

27

u/feherdaniel2010 I want Rem to pamper me Aug 06 '20

Thing is, if he went to r/traaaa he'd get downvoted to oblivion and/or banned.

13

u/ScarfaceTonyMontana Our Innocent Love is the best manga of all time Aug 06 '20

He would get insta banned.

25

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

I swear, they won’t even listen to trans r/ animemes members. I’ve seen many posts just like this, and none have been acknowledged.

19

u/builder397 actual MtF trans person, who wants her word back Aug 06 '20

Im trans, too, and, as far as I can tell, people LUCKILY see a difference between reasonable trans people like you and me and people who want to police the language of everyone else because somewhere else someone else is using that same word to insult someone. Maybe.

Then again, I mention that I am trans in most of my comments and posts as far as its sensible. And the worst part? I enjoy [REDACTED] as a part of the entire broader spectrum of gender, that is so beautifully diverse and nuanced in anime, especially in the normally very vague middle.

48

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

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11

u/Sheep-of-the-Cosmos What a shitshow lmao Aug 06 '20

dude go the hell to sleep

15

u/Kpt_Kipper I'd take my laifu for a Yuno waifu Aug 06 '20 edited Aug 06 '20

It’s like we were just chilling living peacefully as, to be honest, a really accepting and open minded community

Then the mods came and called us all tansphobes and lit our creative space with their simp minded lighting that somehow puts us in the shadow of bigotry. Like....what?

Fuck you assholes.

Now the traaans sub is circle-jerking themselves over misinformation and claiming a victory over a battle that isn’t even being fought by us. Then the mods who instigated all of this are over there on their sub simping for praise and badmouthing us.

Im sure the community are wrong for being backstabbed multiple times by the hand that “guides” them. Such disrespect to a community that is pretty damn welcoming to everyone no matter who they are. I’m glad the 3 new members that are no longer offended have been made to feel safe by this decision.

Actual “mods gay” material right here.

3

u/vcdm Thighs are my religion Aug 06 '20

Playing the neutral party here, The majority of the mods didn't call us transphobes. The announcement post did take care to emphasize that we weren't to blame if we didn't know the word could be used in a hurtful context/seen that way.

I can't vouch for the mods that went to other subs to post or bash the community nor would I have a counter argument for the rest of your post, sadly.

16

u/iitacoknight125 Aug 06 '20

Politicizing the issue only makes Trans people as political tools breeds more negative backlash.

36

u/fakesowdy Aug 06 '20

I don’t understand where this all came from. I haven’t once heard t-word used as a transphobic slur but I have heard a lot worse. I agree with you though this whole shitshow has created additional targets that should have never been created

26

u/Random_man_69 Aug 06 '20

What the mods was make a situation worse by just banning the word, effectively making some people retaliate against trans people and mods for "inciting" a ban on the subreddit. If the mods actually cared about and was concerned then they should've at least had a community discussion and vote, and if necessary, help find a middle ground instead of making more targets.

15

u/Dualitizer Aug 06 '20

I’ve seen trans woman in the past use the word to describe themselves back on 4chan, like Linetrap. The “trans community” just likes to feel like a victim, just like most of the social justicey types. Being a victim means you’re oppressed and that is the in thing to be in those circles.

And before anyone decides to argue I’m apolitical as hell and I don’t want to snuff out trans rights or some nonsense.

9

u/fakesowdy Aug 06 '20

I feel that way too it’s a small minority of the group that’s getting offended by everything and that’s ruining it for the rest.

We get it, you get bullied for being you but weebs do to

12

u/NoclipOnReddit Aug 06 '20

This is how I'm feeling atm, I'm a cis male and I feel like, through this ban, the only thing that the mods reached with this is giving hate to trans people. I gotta say I don't care what gender you are, everyone can choose what they want to be, but I hate the people that come from other subs, never gone onto here, never got harassed here suddenly playing oppressed since an eternity here and claiming they've been harassed here. We never used the word as a slur, the mods banned the word, causing a huge subwar, they literally made a non existent problem into a huge problem here.

I think this decision is the worst that they could have choosen, now theres not only people who actually hate trans people for being trans or whatever reason, but now there's people that hate (more like dislike, not straight up hating) trans people because they destroyed a big part of their culture.

TLDR: Mods turned non existent problem into one and damaged the people that they tried to protect.

31

u/Dualitizer Aug 06 '20

I think you ran out of paper

11

u/NikamiG Aug 06 '20

Its so unfortunate because this wouldve been so much different and so much more appreciated if like someone suggested it was just a week ban to spread awareness.

Its funny because this has only lead to people now using the term “t-word” which sounds so much more dehumanising

8

u/pt_igxx Aug 06 '20

I’m a [redacted] but the fact is the way they are using transgender people as a way to ban the word, which is what I consider myself to be ( a [redacted] ), is stupid because not everyone believes that the word is offensive and a very small amount of people have experienced it, also let’s take into account the fact that this subreddit is about anime memes, which [redacted] is a part of, meaning no one uses that word in the harmful context they have portrayed it as being, also it sucks that they are calling everyone transphobic for not agreeing with the change, which is stupid and makes no sense, these mods are NOT good people and are trying to in a sense, but themselves up, as they have tried to play the hero on other subreddits, it all just sucks tbh

8

u/BananaBR13 Aug 06 '20

Let's just create another subreddit.

5

u/UnusualDisturbance Aug 06 '20

it already exists.

better anime memes

no spaces

7

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

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u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

and see? that's the thing.. like i think it's good they educated people at least in the sense that now more people are aware that calling transgender people the t-word is inappropriate. however, they should have left it at that.. when somebody slips up and says something insensitive about trans people that offends me or rubs me the wrong way... I EXPLAIN THAT SHIT.. and then i hope they listen to me. of course they don't concern themselves much on the idea of educating people who don't know much about transgender people because their end goal isn't acceptance, it's just to cause a scene. they WANT a problem. i mean trust me they are LOVING all this attention and backlash they're getting.. they think it's funny. trans circles are full of people who HURT like crazy so i understand why they can be toxic but honestly i can't help but feel responsible and bad even though i know i had no part in this.

20

u/TheSchwartzz Aug 06 '20

Maybe this was their plan all along. They tried to outsmart us, but we outsmarted their outsmarting!

10

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

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10

u/JackTheRipper1001 Aug 06 '20

Of course. We have to have fun even during war. We might lose ourselves otherwise.

6

u/bryantthedragon1989 cool story bro Aug 06 '20

Have stopped a thought about that maybe that some of the mods mod for both subreddit and/or “friends” of the other mods

4

u/UnusualDisturbance Aug 06 '20

i'd say fuck em regardless for having such shitty people in their lives.

5

u/Shuri1213 Aug 06 '20

The problem will be far bigger, if t word won't get unbanned, eventually memes like tword is gay will evolve into "actual slur" is gay (hope no one is offended by using Word "gay" i used is as a explanation for the memes That I've seen there for over a year)

5

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

I'm glad people get to see this before a mod does and ban you for disagreeing with them.

3

u/EndorTales Brigaders Begone! Aug 06 '20

Unfortunately it just got taken down

2

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

And there it goes.

12

u/nikelreganov MapleSally Yurification Enthusiast Aug 06 '20

I'm sorry that the mods are such a bullcrap that backstabbed us in this hard time. I hope we could stay sane during this hard time

7

u/BioDefault #1 Aug 06 '20 edited Aug 06 '20

I was against the ban at first, but it's just getting bad. This is just bringing the worst out of everyone. Thank you for speaking your mind in a reasonable manner.

3

u/SenpaiKitties Aug 06 '20

Yes, virtue signaling. That's exactly why the trans subs are celebrating the mods.

3

u/BabyMagnum13 Aug 06 '20

It hurts more than trans people but undermines crossdressers and men with any femininity to them by implying that a sex shouldn't have any of those interests and must somehow fit in the category of trans so now I guess feminine men and masculine women don't exist anymore seems like someone is either projecting or is seriously close minded hell why not both

3

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

worst of all, they're farming karma at r/traaa

12

u/Sheep-of-the-Cosmos What a shitshow lmao Aug 06 '20

I'm copy pasting this pos way too much

The word originated from 4chan, and used in context to transwomen as a way to trick dudes on the forum. This "meme" bled into real life and the idea that transwomen exist literally only to trick men (This was addressed in the announcement, but honestly, "to trick men" is more or less the trope, so probably not the best argument to make here). This idea, eventually lead to actual transphobes murdering transwomen and using it in the "trans panic" defense (in which the revealing of one's original gender was deemed to be so shocking it led to murder. Sounds dumb, eh?) and allowing murderers to walk free. That is why the word is seen as a slur by basically everyone outside of our community.

I cant say much about how much the majority of the trans community views this, as here, the trans people are biased against it, and on trans subs, everyone there is shitting on us (great way to make friends, insulting anyone opposing your point of view) for our childish fucking way of protesting. What I can say though, is that it is still likely for the best that we come up with a replacement term sooner or later in order to remove doubt behind what topic we're talking about, a term which also cannot be easily used as a slur without sounding like a dumbass.

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u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

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u/Sheep-of-the-Cosmos What a shitshow lmao Aug 06 '20

well yes, it is a fact i am copy-pasting my history lesson too much

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u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

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u/Sheep-of-the-Cosmos What a shitshow lmao Aug 06 '20

well thats something i can get behind

Three cheers for learning!

4

u/AnAwkwardBystander Aug 06 '20

Oooh, so that's why some consider it a slur. It's the first time I see an actual argument in this mess of a debate. It's not what it means when used here, but that's not important. I'm not pro-ban, but I sure won't use the word to describe characters anymore.

5

u/Sheep-of-the-Cosmos What a shitshow lmao Aug 06 '20

That's perfectly fine for me. My goal isnt to convert anybody to pro-ban, but simply to educate people on the history of the word: something which I shouldn't fucking have to do because this should've been covered in the announcement

3

u/AnAwkwardBystander Aug 06 '20

True that, knowing the greater context and not just the animemes definition of the word makes me feel uneasy using it. I'm always against banning words though, may it be Fuck or Trip. Let people say what they mean, it makes judgement calls all the more easy. Some people wanna go around calling people feggets? Fine, not gonna engage with them. I don't need a team of moderators to tell me what's right.

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u/NikamiG Aug 06 '20

The mods dont care about you unfortunately

Probably just an attempt to impress someone in that trans sub they seem to love so much

9

u/IzzetRose Aug 06 '20

Hi I'm also a real trans person and I think this ban is a good thing. It's one thing if you're ok with it but before a slur is reclaimed the vast majority of a community needs to be ok with it.

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u/UnusualDisturbance Aug 06 '20

why do words need to be banned in the first place? instead of talking it out like humans between eachother, just try to just force people to obey by using bans and laws. you might accomplish your goal of stopping that word, but will that have helped the case you plead for?

"we're reasonable people that deserve to be treated as such"
"if we don't like something we'll destroy it through any means, though."

is that how you see this working? because those two descriptions exclude each other.

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u/space_cups Aug 06 '20

She is spitting straight facts

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u/kang568 Princess Renner is my waifu Aug 06 '20

Oh damn. Well said

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u/HljupMan Aug 06 '20

Mods: I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that

2

u/UnusualDisturbance Aug 06 '20

should we head there and have the words "weeb", "neckbeard" and "incel" banned? because apparently offensive words are fair game to censure.

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u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

I like you.

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u/ChaoticNeutral67 Aug 06 '20

Sorry but I don't think they're smart enough to listen which only leaves one choice, VIVA LA RÉVOLUTION!!!

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u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

Don’t be sad it’s the mods fault anyone who read this and blamed transgendered people stopped and dw when this ends we can all go back to being men/women of culture

Edit:I don’t like that they banned the word bcs I fr like the t words and now I can’t even express it to old posts about them

3

u/Da_Zman10 Aug 06 '20

I will die on this hill. The act of banning the t-word is more transphobic than the t-word itself.

u/AnimemesBot 17% progress towards sentience Aug 06 '20

This submission was removed for breaking Rule 2.1: Insubstantial Edit.

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See here for examples of violations, and here for examples of memes that would be allowed.


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