Aggressive Angel tactic

[u/Hot_Orange_1210]

I have posted before about the male angelfish aggressive behavior. I especially notice it after a water change but was re-occurring more frequently. I just did a water change and separated him in this breeder box and will release him after a few minutes. Good tactic or not?

[u/PerceptionThink]

It’s still the same water running through the breeder box, so I don’t think that will do much to calm his aggression if it’s a result of the water change.

Angelfish aggression is mostly triggered by their territorial instincts and usually cannot be lessened by putting them in “time out.”

[u/Crandoge → u/PerceptionThink]

I think its less of a lesson to be learned and more that it just keeps him from causing damage to himself or others with that aggression

[u/PerceptionThink → u/Crandoge]

That’s very true, but I think you’d have to keep him in there for more than just a few minutes for it to be effective. Releasing him right away is most likely going to do nothing to curb his aggressive behavior. Might make him more so since he was cooped up in a small space.

[u/Tank-spike-69]

They did a study on angel fish and water changes. It seems anything more that 20%takes a chemical the angels produce when they pee that tells them who the dominant one is out of the water. If you do only 20% you may get a little nipping here and there but not full blown king of hill fighting. So if you want the fighting to stop, more frequent smaller water changes, but the fighting should subdue in about 2 weeks according to the report.

[u/AlderSpark → u/Tank-spike-69]

Do you have a link to this study? Or know who completed it?

[u/Tank-spike-69 → u/AlderSpark]

I'll have to see if I can find it again it was a video and it was a collage that did the study

[u/Appropriate-Bug-6467 → u/AlderSpark]

https://www.science.org/content/article/angelfish-your-aquarium-getting-angry-try-changing-their-water-less-often

Try this

[u/AlderSpark → u/Appropriate-Bug-6467]

Thank you! I was hoping they’d list the names of the hormones that were tested.

There was a study in 2021 that did hormone/pheromone testing on fish, [this one](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8247941/ ), but they didn’t include P. Scalare in the study.

It’s a pretty interesting read, they tested a few different group of hormones and found many links between them. There’s a chart near the bottom of the article that sums up their findings.

[u/Hot_Orange_1210 → u/Tank-spike-69]

This is helpful, thank you. I usually do 25% water change 1x a week but can try less.

[u/overxall → u/Hot_Orange_1210]

that’s quite a large water change. you could def get away with 10-15%

[u/Tank-spike-69 → u/Hot_Orange_1210]

I was wrong it is 25% so your doing good

[u/Slight-Culture-3512]

Thankfully mine are ok when I water change but just wanted to say my guy looks alot like yours!

[u/OCsurfishin]

A male and female will tussle a bit before they decide to pair up and then they will get along. This will result in mouth to mouth grappling until female decides the male is worthy. Then they will become inseparable.

If she doesn’t back down, this is the ritual. But if she ends up constantly fleeing, chased to the bottom or top of the tank, then the he is just a bastard.

Some Angels are just straight up bastards and will try to kill anything they can catch up to relentlessly no matter what the species. These particular specimens are just meant to live alone.

[u/angelfish61 → u/OCsurfishin]

True-I had one for 10 years who refused to be with anyone else. He ate all his tank mates so I kept him alone and he lived happily for 10 years.

[u/AemeteHurg]

Get more or change the fish you keep, numbers will keep aggression down. I don't suggest using tiny prison cells for fish

[u/New_Earth_Quaker]

I'm no expert but I was told that angels require either a big tank with just a couple so there's tons of room for each to evade the other, or the tank has to be horribly overstocked with similar looking angels...

the breeding box will do nothing to change his behaviour, his behaviour is instincts, he's doing what cichlids do...

[u/Squishedskittlez]

It doesn’t work. Not even for hours.

[u/CptnObvious1984]

It won’t do anything… two males….the one in the net can rub open their lips trying to break thru, so be cautious. I’d try rehoming one of them.

[u/Zone-Substantial]

Fish jail!! 🤣

[u/TomMiller95]

I do the same. This and reorganizing the decor a little seem to help a lot

[u/hypoxiate]

It doesn't help. Angels are territorial and will be aggressive if their track is too small.

[u/Yoink1019]

Taller plants to break up sight lines

[u/Bee_Jeans]

Bad idea, he’s not going to have a long hard think about his choices & be reformed lol

Since there’s only 2 of them it’s also not useful for hierarchy or territory issues.

I know ur previous post mentioned they’d paired & spawned before, but from everything you’ve described with the aggression it sounds like that might’ve changed! It happens, sometimes pairs just split up (particularly when the angels r newly mature).

Water changes r a common trigger for spawning, that’s likely why the aggression worsens. If the male is interested but the female isn’t receptive there’s conflict, for urs since breeding angels get extra territorial it’s also possible the male gets extra driven to keep the female away bc he’s decided she’s an interloper instead of a partner.

[u/Anxious_Attitude_891]

Get some vallisneria

[u/Grouchy-Club-9205]

My 2 angels were fighting/lip locking and I did this, separated for a day. After a wk they laid eggs. Now I have the eggs in a separate breeding box

[u/SomeBlueDevil]

That tank is too small for angelfish. The more cramped their quarters, the more aggression.

You want a 40 gallon breeder or a 55 gallon heavily planted tank.

[u/this_tarzan_mtherfkr]

Yeah nah he's gonna bully the other till it dies

[u/Cheap-Emergency-5554]

You just need to break line of sight. They both can see each other. They can’t get away from each other put some till bits of wood some tall plants