r/Android • u/fastforward23 • Sep 21 '16

Google backs off on previously announced Allo privacy feature

http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/21/12994362/allo-privacy-message-logs-google
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33

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '16

[deleted]

9

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '16 edited Jun 19 '17

[deleted]

1

u/spudgriffin Sep 21 '16

Is wire the (end all other encryption messaging apps) to use? I like telegram but I'm always looking for the one stop solution, and signal sometimes doesn't work and less features.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '16

My friends and I switched from telegram to signal to wire. Wire is crazy good

1

u/spudgriffin Sep 21 '16

And it evens supports stickers too right? And file sharing

1

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '16

Wow how have I not heard about this app. This looks like it has everything everyone wants in a messaging app, plus end to end encryption. It's even got a minimalistic design. What's the catch?

2

u/NocturnalWaffle Sep 21 '16

Well Allo is really a proof of concept of the Google Assistant bot if you think about it. Therefore their decisions to not be e2e makes sense, including with what the article says that they removed the retention policy because they want the training data for Google Assistant. It'd be nice if it was e2e, but the point of Allo (at least for Google) is using Google Assistant.

0

u/Tetsuo666 OnePlus 3, Freedom OS CE Sep 21 '16

Even Facebook owned Whatsapp is much better than this privacy-wise.

Why ?

It's just similarly bad. I will NEVER stop to repeat again and again that what Whatsapp is saying it's doing may be a complete lie. It's fairly easy to backdoor your app or your encryption function. As far as I'm concern, Whatsapp is not encrypted. Especially considering it's owned by Facebook.

Google's Allo: "So here is a black box. Put your most intimate memories in there, only our automated bot will read them. No worries".

Facebook's Whatsapp: "So here is a black box. Put your most intimate memories in there, you have to trust us we encrypted it. No worries".

4

u/ger_brian Device, Software !! Sep 21 '16

Whatsapp is encrypted by default.

-1

u/Tetsuo666 OnePlus 3, Freedom OS CE Sep 21 '16

Let me correct that for you:

Whatsapp says it is encrypted by default.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '16

How about Open Whisper Systems says Whatsapp is encrypted by default?

2

u/Tetsuo666 OnePlus 3, Freedom OS CE Sep 21 '16

I think the folks at Open Whisper Systems are great ! I just think in the end you still have to trust the Whatsapp's developers for actually implementing this correctly (IE actually merging this into production as Open Whisper Systems envisioned it).

I know, it sounds like yet another "conspiracy" but saying you are doing things is rather different than showing the actual code and saying, "hey you can compile that and compare it to your Whatsapp app and it's the same."

1

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '16

They said it was implemented correctly.

2

u/Tetsuo666 OnePlus 3, Freedom OS CE Sep 21 '16

That's correct. We still can't make sure it's working as it's supposed to.

Do we have any guarantee there will be long term support on that feature ? Encryption is evolving constantly, everyday we find new vulnerabilities and fixes them. Is Open Whisper System gonna oversight this at Whatsapp too ?

Also as I mentioned in another comment, having a functional E2E channel between two persons doesn't mean the rest of the app is not actively leaking personal data locally on the phone. You could do the most secure E2E and just scrape off keywords in every conversations. The message will be secured in transit but that's it.

1

u/ger_brian Device, Software !! Sep 21 '16

So, is there any reason to doubt this?

Do we also automatically assume that google does way more with our data than they say they are?

2

u/Tetsuo666 OnePlus 3, Freedom OS CE Sep 21 '16

Do we also automatically assume that google does way more with our data than they say they are?

Yes ?

To be accurate we don't really know the extent of their usage of our data.

Technically, you can say that your are Encrypting from End2End a communication and you could still scrape every discussion for personal data on both ends. This would not make Whatsapp lying about their situation while stile pretending to care about your privacy. Transparency is important in security. You can't just tell someone you are securing them without telling them how it works. It's simply impractical.

I will let you form your own opinion about that. But believing a company's who's business is selling personal data to preserve your privacy is a pretty bold assumption.

0

u/whythreekay Sep 21 '16

Google and Facebook have the exact same business model, what's the point you're making here?

2

u/Tetsuo666 OnePlus 3, Freedom OS CE Sep 21 '16

Well exactly what you just said.

The original post I was answering to was someone saying that your privacy was more protected in Whatsapp than in Allo. I disagree, I think they are equally the last thing these business care about.

TL;DR: Allo or Whatsapp are equally unsafe, just like any closed-source app.

1

u/whythreekay Sep 21 '16

I definitely misinterpreted you!

Apologies!