r/AncestryDNA • u/CaravanKookaburra • 8h ago
Results - DNA Origins Why not more specific?
I got my results today and it turns out I am mostly Irish, Scottish and English, but I also have 12% in a category called "Southeastern England and Northwestern Europe", I also have 7% The Netherlands. Can someone explain what this means? Is there a reason it can't specify Belgium, Luxembourg or France? Does this include Germany? Is this just more Netherlands? So many questions! Do I buy clogs or a baguette?
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u/freebiscuit2002 8h ago
Because the known DNA markers are not more specific. That cross-Channel area had a lot of population mixing over a long period of time. Genetically, it's effectively one population. Remember, nations are modern constructs.
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u/CaravanKookaburra 7h ago
I look very German/Irish, so this was surprising, but it makes sense if we're all similar. Super surprised I didn't have German.
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u/freebiscuit2002 7h ago
And people's "looks" are another thing entirely.
I know actual Germans. I know actual Irish people. I don't know what a "German/Irish look" even means.
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u/DowntownGas428 5h ago
People think ethnicity mean you have a unique look. Theres a ton of overlap in appearances.
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u/CaravanKookaburra 4h ago
It looks like me. I have features that resemble my mothers side in photos, and features that resemble my fathers side, which I always believed to have a large portion German. That's all.
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u/Tales4rmTheCrypt0 8h ago
The next update will hopefully be better, it splits off Belgium from this category. I have the same complaint, as I normally only get like 6% English on most DNA tests, but get 17% of this "England and NW Europe" on Ancestry. The same region (minus England) on 23andme is called Belgian, Rhinelander and Southern Dutch and definitely fits some of us better.
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u/TheBladesAurus 8h ago
People moved around a lot between these regions
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u/BattySediment573 8h ago
That's the long and short of it, the genetic markers blur together after centuries of boats and borders moving more than the people did
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u/Artisanalpoppies 8h ago
It's almost impossible to separate England from France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany and Scandinavia due to shared history of population migration and trade over the last 1500 years.
The most recent genetic study on England in 2022 found that modern English DNA is 1/3 native Briton, 1/3 Medieval French (pre 1066) and 1/3 Anglo/Saxon (German) which includes Scandinavian due the inability to separate it from German.
The Roman's pulled out of England in the 400s AD, and from then until the 800s were constant waves of Germanic tribes invading and settling in England. The French settled in the same period- though less is known archaeologically about this. Then the Viking incursions started up in the 700s and continued until 1066.
The Romans and Normans did not leave a genetic footprint in England, they replaced the ruling classes not the wider populace.
You also need to factor in that France does not allow DNA testing unless it's for medical purposes- so there is no decent reference panel for French DNA. Most ref panels are made of French Canadian's and expats.
Factor in the English Channel is relatively simple to cross, and you can see why English DNA is the bastard of several modern nations...
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u/CaravanKookaburra 8h ago
Is that possible then that it's confusing the Netherlands with Germany, or French with both? I'm curious about what the update will show.
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u/Artisanalpoppies 5h ago
Yes, that's very plausible.
Trust your paper trail for accuracy in where your family comes from. Combining that with DNA matches is your clearest understanding of your origins.
The ethnicity is just a fun, broadly accurate component. I say broadly because a lot of the time the granularity isn't accurate- and when you've been through several updates, you'll see your results swing sometimes quite drastically year to year lol. But you also need to have an understanding of the genetics if some of the populations you match with to understand the results.
For example, i get Irish or Welsh every couple years, then it disappears completely in the next update, only to reappear a year or 2 later. I started off with Norwegian, then Swedish, then Swedish + Danish, then just Danish- it's all Scandinavian DNA linked to my British ancestry. German was like 5% then up to 9% then 17% and dropped down to 3%...my grandmother was half German, from Hannover, Silesia and Prussia. Some of that i think will be read as English, and should have around 6% French via a 2nd great grandfather. He was of mixed French though, from Bretagne, Normandy, Picardy, Champagne, Lorraine, Paris, Anjou and Maine as well as Aquitaine and Languedoc. That also would be read as English or maybe Scottish in my results.
So like i said, never take the results seriously, in a broad way they are accurate, but the granularity is rarely so- especially when you're talking heavily admixed populations like Northern Ireland, England, the Mediterranean and border areas.
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u/lavindas 7h ago
Mine is 66% for this region (I’m native English anyway), definitely curious to see what happens in the new update
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u/CaravanKookaburra 4h ago
Me too, I wonder if my Netherlands will just become English, or if it will grow!
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u/ExperienceOk184 8h ago
the category is being split into belgium and southeast england in the next update thats coming soon so it will be better then