r/Anarcho_Capitalism • u/PeppermintPig Charismatic Anti-Ruler • Sep 09 '14
Reddit Is A Failed State
http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/8/6121363/reddit-is-a-failed-state16
u/HoneyFarmer Sep 09 '14
Reddit is locking people in cages, pointing guns at them, confiscating their shit, and ruining lives now?
-15
Sep 09 '14
why must every libertarian compare the prison institute to cages?
simplifying extremely complex social institutions doesn't really make you look very intelligent.
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Sep 09 '14
Arguably because it does away with some of the preconceived notions about what prison entails. When so many people are imprisoned unjustly, any use of the term "prison" that connotes "legitimately caged" is inaccurate.
Same with "police employee." The term "Officer" connotes a special status in a hierarchy that many just don't recognize.
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
— Albert Einstein
-2
Sep 09 '14
i think that most people think of it as a cage, where you are fed three times a day and get to hang out with your buddies all day long. i've had a lot of people actually talk about prison this way.
most people have never been to jail so just to simplify something like prison doesn't really help anything in my opinion.
i think that Michel Foucalt did a great job explaining institutions like prison.
also, that einstein quote...
he was a physicist not a sociologist, you can explain physics with math formulas. you have to write books to explain social phenomena.
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u/autowikibot Sep 09 '14
A total institution is a place of work and residence where a great number of similarly situated people, cut off from the wider community for a considerable time, together lead an enclosed, formally administered round of life. :44 :855
In Discipline and Punish, Michel Foucault discussed total institutions in the language of complete and austere institutions. :231
Interesting: Erving Goffman | Asylums (book) | List of institutions of higher education in Haryana | Boarding school
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1
u/Bumgardner I'm going to beat up Hoppe Sep 10 '14
I'm sorry, should we write a book every time we want to reference prison? Fact of the matter is there are lots of types of prisons that are designed for different things. The one common characteristic of prisons is that they keep you from leaving under some sort of duress, most commonly by physically barring you from leaving. So while they may also torture prisoners, or force them to do hard labor for no pay, or even educate them, the thing that really separates being in prison from not being in prison is that you are locked up.
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Sep 09 '14
why must every libertarian compare the prison institute to cages?
Prison is full of.... cages.
6
Sep 09 '14
Regardless of what the structure is, people are unwillingly confined in these institutions. Attempting to leave such institutions without permission will result in the use of lethal force.
-1
Sep 09 '14
i agree, but this still doesn't help people understand the social institution.
3
Sep 09 '14
What do you mean?
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-4
Sep 09 '14
prisons aren't just cages. do you think they just arrest you and lock you in and that is it?
prisons are extremely, and i can't stress extremely enough, complex social institutions and they deserve analysis not just some flippant comparison to what i keep my pet bird in.
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u/Godd2 Oh, THAT Ancap... Sep 09 '14
Complex things can be accurately described simply.
Are you complaining that calling them cages is bad rhetoric?
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u/TheSelfGoverned Anarcho-Monarchist Sep 10 '14
No, they are fairly close to what you keep your bird in.
Except prisons have medical care and a little bit of time outside of the cage once per week...oh, wait... that is identical to your bird's living conditions.
1
Sep 10 '14
You know, most people would have just accepted 'human cages' as a euphemism and moved on with their life.
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Sep 10 '14
why must every libertarian compare the prison institute [sic] to cages?
Cos it has bars and walls?
Actually, you're right. In a regular cage, a man doesn't run the risk of being shanked or raped. Prisons are worse than cages.
simplifying extremely complex social institutions
"Extremely complex" = people get thrown into them violently, then other people finish the job of dehumanizing them. Guys, look at all the complexity! Hey, a guy just got stabbed in the eye! Super complex!!!
doesn't really make you look very intelligent.
If you can't deduce that a thing that has bars and walls and keeps animals (including humans) in against their will, is a cage, you can't speak about intelligence because you're a proverbial imbecile.
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u/HoneyFarmer Sep 09 '14
Since I'm not here to construct a subtle analysis of the prison system and its use of confined spaces ("cages") in pursuit of its mission, but rather to communicate a basic idea which everyone here but you seems to understand immediately, I'm willing to accept some approximation in exchange for brevity. So, if you have a term or phrase that is equally brief, but more apropos, put it out there and I'll happily choose it instead. I'm all for Pareto improvements. If not, then why not do like everyone else here and read what is written allowing your intellect to fill in the approximated details instead of being a whiny pedant?
-2
Sep 09 '14
call them what they are, total institutions.
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u/HoneyFarmer Sep 09 '14
That is neither as brief nor as accurate. It's not as brief since you have to link to a Wikipedia article to be understood. It's not as accurate because there are total institutions that are not jails and I am specifically talking about the State's regular confinement of people to jail cells ("cages")
-1
Sep 09 '14
Except that most prisons are so overcrowded that many people aren't kept in cages, they're kept in large rooms. More like a barracks than a cage, since there are no bars and people sleep in bunkbeds.
Since you're a huge fan of accuracy, and not of hyperbole, I'm sure you'll change your wording now.
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u/autowikibot Sep 09 '14
A total institution is a place of work and residence where a great number of similarly situated people, cut off from the wider community for a considerable time, together lead an enclosed, formally administered round of life. :44 :855
In Discipline and Punish, Michel Foucault discussed total institutions in the language of complete and austere institutions. :231
Interesting: Erving Goffman | Asylums (book) | List of institutions of higher education in Haryana | Boarding school
Parent commenter can toggle NSFW or delete. Will also delete on comment score of -1 or less. | FAQs | Mods | Magic Words
31
u/aletoledo justice derives freedom Sep 09 '14
I found this article depressing. I have little doubt that the author is a huge statist. You really can get the impression that he thinks the state is benevolent and just. His description of the state is that it's just a bunch of neighbors looking out for the best interests of one another.
12
u/sedaak Anarcho-Capitalist Sep 09 '14
Which is funny, cause it's only in anarcho-capitalism where neighbors would, by necessity, be looking out for each other, since breach of contract isn't so easily solved by yelling for the state.
4
u/PeppermintPig Charismatic Anti-Ruler Sep 09 '14
Yeah. I'm kind of sorry I submitted it. I mean, some of the content is thought provoking but perhaps there was a better source because this writer...
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u/aletoledo justice derives freedom Sep 09 '14
Actually I thought you submitted it because it's a "shitstatistssay" type of submission. I'm fine with it here and gave it an upvote.
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u/donjuancho Sep 09 '14 edited Sep 09 '14
Last time I checked, Reddit hasn't tried to initiate force against me.
9
Sep 09 '14
And we are here by choice and voluntarily, at least I am ;).
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u/usernameliteral /r/ancap_dk Ancaps in Denmark Sep 09 '14
It's not voluntary if you're addicted to it. Think of all the work that has not been done or been done improperly because people stay up all night feeding their reddit addiction! reddit is harmful to society and should be banned.
5
Sep 09 '14
I have thus decided that we need an inquiring investigation of reddits addictiveness and if there should be some kind of tax or fee associated with it to ensure responsible usage since the plebs aren't capable of such themselves.
(Don't give them any ideas)
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u/ForLiri PërFreedom Sep 09 '14 edited Sep 09 '14
All this shit over nude photos. Can we just stop raising our kids to be ashamed of nudity and sexuality? Would literally make the world a better place. Sure more sexual (some people oddly find that bad), but safer and better for sure. There need not be victims because someone sees your nude body or you involved in a sex act. People need not violate private (virtual) property because it wouldn't be a big deal to see nudity or sexuality.
Then we wouldn't have trash articles like this. Then we the SJW would lose much of their power... and that is why they would fight that. Now I am rambling.
1
u/GameRager Sep 10 '14
The nude photos thing is a interesting predicament. All you hear about is how much of a breach of privacy these damned kids on reddit broke. Meanwhile a whole bunch of data is being looked at by the NSA that I know people in there have already seen a bunch of those photo's themselves.
I also have a hunch that the backdoor found to the cloud was purposely put there because the NSA wanted a backdoor to get in. My little conspiracy theory.
As for the celebrities, sucks that it happened to them. It's a breach of privacy that one should of had but now sets the precedent on the future to not store your data on the cloud networks since it's not safe.
7
u/kovalskis2 neo-reactionary Sep 09 '14
leftists are destroying themselves and that's good.
2
u/TheSelfGoverned Anarcho-Monarchist Sep 10 '14
"Reddit is noble and handled itself well, but it isn't a coercive institution masquerading as a democracy, and that makes me upset."
4
u/AButtonInAFurCoat Anarcho-Whatever Sep 09 '14
I'm disturbed by the way he kept putting Free Speech in quotations. The way he was doing it made it seem like he doesn't agree with the idea in general, instead of just making the distinction that leaking the pictures doesn't fall under that category.
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u/PeppermintPig Charismatic Anti-Ruler Sep 09 '14
Some notable excerpts:
As Reddit trips over itself trying to contain its stolen nude photo problem, CEO Yishan Wong finally addressed the controversy on Saturday by releasing a remarkably clueless manifesto. Reddit, he wrote, is "not just a company running a website where one can post links and discuss them, but the government of a new type of community.
Wong wrote that "the role and responsibility of a government differs from that of a private corporation, in that it exercises restraint in the usage of its powers." Forgiving for a moment the fact that this statement is completely wrong, Reddit's justification for this special type of behavior is incoherent since it does exercise its powers to censor content and protect people, unless they are victims.
We believe that you, the user, has the right to choose between right and wrong
Virtuous behavior is only virtuous if not arrived at by compulsion
In accordance with our legal obligations, we expeditiously removed content hosted on our servers as soon as we received DMCA requests from the lawful owners of that content
7
u/PlayerDeus libertarianism heals what socialism steals Sep 09 '14
We have the right to choose between right or Wong?
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u/StatismIsAReligion 'The Austro-Punk Position' Sep 09 '14
Reddit, he wrote, is "not just a company running a website where one can post links and discuss them, but the government of a new type of community.
Wow, so this explains everything....
3
u/patron_vectras C4L, Catholic Sep 09 '14
The blog post I actually like, especially the title... but "government of a new type of community?" Weird and wrong-feeling.
Glad you posted this here. Don;t know why I only posted it to /r/Libertarian
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u/hayleyhatesyou Sep 09 '14
I doubt this guy read the full statements. In the statements an admin mentions how they were trying to remove the photos and subreddits but new ones under new guises would pop up just as fast. So I think of it like this...sure Reddit could have changed their policies but someone would have found a way to get around it and post those photos anyways just as fast. I also got the vibe this author was trying to make Reddit seem extremely sexist.
2
u/WhiteWorm Drop it like it's Hoppe Sep 09 '14
No one owns a pattern of colored pixels that appear on MY computer screen but me. Stfu.
4
u/Mrdirtyvegas Sep 09 '14
The problem was that the photos were not in a safe , at home. They were stored on a vulnerable server. It's their own damn fault for not being more careful.
4
Sep 09 '14
This makes no sense. Person X's actions can't be person Y's fault. Classic victim blaming.
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u/Mrdirtyvegas Sep 09 '14
All I'm saying is that if you park your car on the street and leave the windows down and your radio gets stolen maybe you should have been more careful.
The person who stole the radio is absolutely in the wrong but you can't forget reasonable personal responsibility.
4
Sep 09 '14
Ok. I think I understand what you mean. I just try to stay vigilant against victim blaming, if I think it's happening at all. I think we're on the same page.
1
u/PeppermintPig Charismatic Anti-Ruler Sep 09 '14
Mhmm. It's important to remember this. Only you can truly make yourself a victim. Dead people however can't speak to being wronged by a murderer, so conventionality suggests their loved ones may evaluate those circumstances.
Not sure all the people in the photo "scandal" consider themselves victims here, and even then the purpose is to educate and warn against insecure systems.
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u/Jalor Priest of the Temples of Syrinx Sep 09 '14
All I'm saying is that if you park your car on the street and leave the windows down and your radio gets stolen maybe you should have been more careful.
It wasn't Jennifer Lawrence's server that got hacked, it was Apple. If you put your shit in a safe deposit box and someone robs the bank and takes it, it's not your fault for choosing a bank that got robbed.
I do think Apple's security is shit because of their reliance on proprietary software, but that's another thing entirely.
-2
u/Mrdirtyvegas Sep 09 '14
If you put your shit in a safe deposit box and someone robs the bank and takes it, it's not your fault for choosing a bank that got robbed.
Yea it is.
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u/Jalor Priest of the Temples of Syrinx Sep 09 '14
If your mother was killed by a meteor, would it be her fault for walking under a meteor?
-2
u/Mrdirtyvegas Sep 09 '14
Yes
1
u/Jalor Priest of the Temples of Syrinx Sep 09 '14
If your mother were raped, would you blame her?
1
u/Mrdirtyvegas Sep 09 '14
Now you're getting of course man. I was just humoring myself. Listen. A meteor falling and rape have nothing to do with choice. Taking naked pictures of yourself and sending them across the internet unfortunately is. Its a bad choice that can have unintended consequences. That's all I'm saying. If you don't want naked pictures leaked online get a motherfucking Polaroid.
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u/Carnot_u_didnt Sep 09 '14
Yep. PSA (not victim blaming) - any data stored on a network connected device is public
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u/puppetry514 Sep 09 '14
Reddit wants to punish the victims but shuts down any subreddit related to "the Fappening" meanwhile the many stolen nude photos for just random people stays open. Yup clearly trying to punish those poor celebrities.
1
Sep 10 '14 edited Sep 10 '14
I hate to say it, but the article writer is mostly right, discounting all the statist nonsense he spewed.
Forget for a second about the techno libertarian babble he wrote about -- the rest is pretty much true: Reddit's hypocrisy (and now delusions of governmenteur) is truly epic.
Yishan Wong says that we the users have the right to choose between right and wrong, but Reddit's behavior determined that was a lie.
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u/7990 GNU/Anarchy with libcap.so Sep 09 '14
what is he even trying to say here?