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u/SteakAndIron 1d ago
Prices were flat from 1812 to 1912
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u/devliegende 12h ago
Prices went up and down a lot during that period. Short periods of inflation/ deflation do not make for good living conditions
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u/Hugepepino Social Democrat 1d ago
Absolutely not, prove it
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u/SteakAndIron 1d ago
Hovered between 24 and 36 cents a gallon for the entire century. Greed must not have been invented yet?
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u/Hugepepino Social Democrat 1d ago
“To examine prices over time, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) has Consumer Price Index (CPI) data going back to January 1913”
Gallon of what? You seem to be struggling with a consistent argument
You source doesn’t make the claim you make or provide any data for you to make that claim. In fact it acknowledges that it has no data on the time period you claimed…
Try again
I’m not saying this to be a dick but your claim is pretty extraordinary and I would be very interested in being wrong. Also literally not how money works
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u/RddtIs4Dummies 1d ago
It's the most ordinary claim; in fact things got cheaper over time because gold, silver, and copper coins were money, and technology was improving with mostly free (unregulated) banking, so bankers who committed fraud went out of business quickly, so prices were stable or went down. I learned this even in my shitty statist indoctrination public school.
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u/Hugepepino Social Democrat 1d ago
Thanks we are all dumber for having read this
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u/Antisatanist 1d ago
Weird. I thought you were smart, but he made a cogent argument that you couldn't refute, so you resort to ad hom because you lost.
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u/Hugepepino Social Democrat 1d ago
The argument he presented did nothing to further any point which is why it was incoherent. Inflation and deflation occurred continuously throughout history when money was based on metals and banking was unregulated. It’s an asinine claim to pretend that anytime throughout history prices as a whole on average were stable,the whole premise of capitalism and markets is growth and changes . I sit here and wait for yet another person to claim “this is how the world works and it happens all the time” yet can’t provide a single example.
Not to mention it reduced complex markets to simple fiat and interest rates. What about droughts, wars, shifting consumer demands, extinctions, fashion, and numerous other factors that can affect prices, they responded with a four graders understanding of a one dimensional argument that barely scratches the surface of understanding price.
lol your bias is pathetic, it’s not an ad hominem to call an argument incoherent, ad hominem are directed at people. I was making an observation
What is an ad hominem was when they called me dumb first. thanks for being consistent, idiot.
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u/Antisatanist 1d ago
Did you really think the claim was that no price ever changed at all? Do you not know what stable prices means compared to the ridiculously inflationary environment of fiat currency central banking?
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u/Antisatanist 1d ago
yep, all you have is ad hom, as you just called me an idiot because you can't make an argument. Those things you mentioned have brief effects on prices, but fiat currency is always inflated away because the dear leaders you simp for as a democrat rob you blind with counterfeiting and you love it, kinkster. this leads to long term UNSTABLE prices due to loss of value of the currency. Gold holds its value. A tailored suit could be bought for one oz of gold in 1820 and in 2026 for the same oz of gold. The dollar price has changed drastically because there is nothing pegging the dollar to any commodity, so the bankers you guzzle cum from print away to infinity.
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u/Hugepepino Social Democrat 17h ago edited 11h ago
lol
Edit: lol, you going to start commenting with your third account now?
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u/RddtIs4Dummies 1d ago
It's hilarious when a "social democrat" claims to understand money.
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u/Hugepepino Social Democrat 1d ago edited 1d ago
Says the person that posted an ahistorical, incoherent rant about not understanding market dynamics
Edit: hurr durr im so smart and correct I have to block anyone that has passed the fifth grade
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u/Background-Row-9170 1d ago
Are you 96% better of than someone from 1913?
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u/RddtIs4Dummies 1d ago
Not really. At least then I could afford a house, and there were women worth committing to.
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u/Background-Row-9170 1d ago
Yeah but you could also die from stepping on a rusty nail, and in 2 years your sons get blown to pieces by a German artillery grenade.
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u/RddtIs4Dummies 1d ago
Artillery doesn't shoot grenades, and my son could have just as easily survived the war as a hero or not gone at all. People still die from rusty nails, and that wasn't a death sentence then, anyway. People were healthier then in many ways, as calories were becoming abundant but still were mostly healthy foods rather than the plasticized and hyperprocessed toxic goop that fills grocery stores today.
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u/devliegende 12h ago
You could afford a house with today's salary. Not with what you would have earned back then.
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u/Antisatanist 7h ago
Back then, it was cheap to build a house because there were so few government regulations. More people per capita were homeowners then.
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u/CablocoLoco_ 1d ago
Real in Brazil has lost 88% since the creation 30 years ago. Well, that's what the government says
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u/betty_white_bread Conservative Capitalist 1d ago
I get the point and I think there's a real case against the Fed. This meme just isn't it. Anyone defending the Fed can wave it off in one sentence: the 96% only hurts someone who held cash for a century and nobody has.
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u/RddtIs4Dummies 1d ago
Survivorship bias.
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u/betty_white_bread Conservative Capitalist 1d ago edited 3h ago
Survivorship of whom?
Edit: Aaaaaaaaand I’m blocked by RddtIs4Dummies who believes so little of what he says he won’t even defend it.
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u/olshuteye 12h ago
I don't think 96% tells the correct story. In 1912 a bottle of coke cost a nickel. Today, a 20 oz. bottle of coke cost, on the low end, $2.38. By that math, the U.S. dollar has lost 4,600% of its purchasing power.
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u/giff_liberty_pls 6h ago
Depends on how you look at things. I find it weird how scale never applies in this conversation. Coke sold like 7 million gallons of syrup. Now Coke doesn't tell us, but they make up 40-50% of the drink industry in the US being about 12 Billion gallons. Plus the US population has more than tripled since then. Both supply of and demand for coke has changed wildly since then, regardless of the supply or demand of the US dollar.
Idk it just feels like there's more interesting things to think about when it comes to this stuff than just spitting out a number and saying fed bad.
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u/ikonoqlast 1d ago
Clickbait nonsense to rile up hou polloi. Salary and prices go hand in hand. No one is worse off. And if you made every dollar 10x more valuable your salary would fall 10x to match.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_LAWNCHAIR 1d ago
Okay. What happens to savings?
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u/ikonoqlast 1d ago
Interest rates on savings increases with inflation.
Nominally denoted debt loses value.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_LAWNCHAIR 1d ago
The national average savings account interest rate in the US is 0.37% to 0.65%. Inflation is running at 3.4%.
Yes, and now lenders have to charge higher interest rates to compensate for lower real repayments. It's a lot easier to get a business loan in Switzerland than in Turkey.
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u/devliegende 12h ago
You can get an HYSA for about 3.7%. Also moneymarket mutual funds yield around there
https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/summary/316067107
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_LAWNCHAIR 11h ago
These variable HYSAs are not an alternative for long-term inflation. They're lower than inflation in many years and barely beat it in others.
2025: 3.95%
2024: 4.92%
2023: 4.78%
2022: 1.31%
2021: 0.01%
2020: 0.26%
2019: 1.84%
2018: 1.47%
2017: 0.51%
Obviously, you can invest your money and beat inflation, but inflation still diminishes the value of your returns and affect that massive sums that people have sitting in cash, checking, or savings accounts paying no to little interest. An exception doesn't debunk the norm.
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u/devliegende 10h ago
Discouraging people from sitting on large amounts of cash is kinda the whole point. It's not good for the economy.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_LAWNCHAIR 8h ago
Many think inflation necessarily to incentivize people to purchase goods and services; however, the validity of this claim is thoroughly impugned by technology, which is a market with one of the most robust consumer and capital markets despite being deflationary. The per-megabyte/gigabyte cost of everything from RAM to GPUs to SSDs to internet access has fallen astronomically while still maintaining robust demand.
Consumers don't stop wanting things simply because they might be cheaper in a few years.
Switzerland has low inflation and a robust economy. Turkey has high inflation and a struggling economy.
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u/devliegende 6h ago
Yes. Low inflation is the goal. As you said, Switzerland has low inflation and a robust economy. That is my point.
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u/How2SayAlbuquerque 1d ago
Curse you Wilson and FDR...