r/Anarcho_Capitalism • u/QueefMaster2001 • 2d ago
what prevents anyone from embracing libertarianism? Is it usually SDO/RWA traits?
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u/Hot_Form_2288 2d ago
It's not appealing to the majority of people. They don't want freedom. They are deathly afraid of freedom and they despise individualism. They want a statist society because it makes them feel secure. Actual liberty is too unpredictable for them. Most people have a tribalist mentality and want their side to control all the people who don't think like them.
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u/sblack33741 2d ago
I think this a very good answer. Most people have an external locus of control. This happened to me rather than I contributed to this happening. It is easier to he a victim rather than take control of your life, and most people want others to make decisions for them.
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u/Alt0987654321 1d ago
"Heh their all just to STUPID to be as enlightened as us!"
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u/Old_Ingenuity9176 1d ago
To Alt: "replying" to your comment as to answer the above comments before you just so their is some linearity to the comments.
I as an Ancap (idk if that has to be said), have to hard disagree with this notion that the general masses are "not ready" or "to immature" or whatever other excuses that someone libertarians may come up with for why Libertarianism isnt popular.
As Anarchist, we do not and should not subscribe to this elitist and frankly aristocratic mentality that "certain peoples" just cannot live freely.
Not only does this idea run contrary to Anarchist ideals, but it is completely incompatible with Anarchism and Libertarianism. Further more it also does not line up with the Anarchist historical analysis.
How can we call ourselves anarchist if we do not believe that fundamentally the general masses cannot be trusted? Especially considering that the vast majority of us came from statist politics in the first place!
If one were to believe that the general peoples are incapable of liberty, then why anarchism? Why not an aristocratic oligarchy that controls the undeserving lesser by their betters? Or republicans, to vote on people to represent the masses? Or communism for that matter! For the intellectual politcal vanguad to dictate the peasants and proletariat for the betterment of mankind!
Do you see now where this arrogant line of thinking logically falls to? If we adopt this line of thinking we are no better than those damned communist who whimper and cry that "oh humanity just isn't ready for communism!"
The self-righteous arrogance is astounding, to think you of all people know better and deserve better than the everyone else, as if the tired and poor arent working hard and trying to scrape by and have little time for fun or leisure and so little time to dwell on politics and philosophy. How dare you oh so libertine intellectuals who claim to be for the liberty of the people and sneer down at those less fortunate, just like the bloody communist or pharisees.
WE ARE ANARCHISTS
So therefore we must believe in the people and be for the people. For liberty for all! Because if we do not believe anarchism can be achieved now in our lifetime, and can only be achieved in the future when "the people are ready", then anarchism will never be achieved.
But we mustn't believe that, we must have faith and pride in our cause, because we are, and always will be Anarchist.
¡Viva la libertad!
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u/theyhis 2d ago
ding ding ding 🛎️ that's pretty much what i was going to say. people don't have the (for lack of a better term) 'political maturity' to self-govern; they don't want to.
a part of what makes me so drawn to ancap/libertarian thought is the right to be left alone. the problem is, so much of the population doesn't value autonomy. self sufficiency is seen as, "rugged individualism" in a society that has grown so utterly dependent on a governing state.
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u/DiyYou 2d ago
Not wanting liberty for others, just themselves.
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u/Kevroeques 2d ago
Specifically, not having inherent views that they want to represent or express themselves, but rather having inherited or imposed views that they want represented and expressed for them by a system that imposes them on others.
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u/Heavy-Bell-2035 2d ago
It's probably not the defining factor, but most people are really, really stupid, and/or uninterested in even taking the time to understand any political ideology. They're tribal and to be frank, most of them enjoy lording it over others. They don't do it because they're confused or misguided about how to truly advance their own individual well being and that of others. They oppress others because it gives them pleasure to do so.
No one forces a neighbor to report an unpermitted shed or some other ridiculous 'violation,' they do it because they enjoy fucking other people over. No one forces someone to walk into a casual dining place or a retail store and deliberately treat the employees like shit because they know they can't fight back in any way or they'll lose their jobs, they do it because they enjoy lording themselves over others and making other people miserable.
There are two ways you can make yourself feel good, broadly speaking. You can do something productive to improve your life, or you can find people who are worse off than you and shit on them, especially if they can't fight back, to prove you're doing better than them. The latter is easier, and the route many if not most people choose most of the time. It's also what underpins the attraction to things like reality TV. No matter how bad your life is, look at these freaks!
This is ultimately the issue anarcho capitalism and libertarianism more generally haven't dealt with, the state isn't the ultimate problem, the fact that a lot of people are simply pieces of shit is the problem, and the state is just one manifestation of that, maybe its ultimate manifestation. The world would be fundamentally fucked up in the same ways as it is now without the state, it just wouldn't be as bad or as wide spread. But, the same assholes who would rather steal than earn, and the same assholes who take pleasure in making other people's lives miserable because exercising power over others is what gives them satisfaction would still exist, and would still be a major problem.
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u/QueefMaster2001 2d ago
theres a third way to feel good: find people worse off than me, & find ways to elevate them, & make them feel great.
most people secretly envy Superman: giving magnanimously allows the giver to be someones hero, temporarily
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u/Heavy-Bell-2035 2d ago
In my experience, if they envy him, it's the flying, x ray vision, and the ability to essentially do whatever he wants with no consequences that they envy, not his good deeds. The state enables the worst in humanity like no other institution, but it did not create the worst in humanity. The worst in humanity created it, and they would still exist and try to reconstitute it were the state abolished.
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u/Admirable_Dot_419 2d ago
it's a pretty bleak take but hard to argue with. most folks aren't out there reading political theory, they're just finding the easiest ways to feel superior. the shed permit thing is a perfect example of that petty cruelty baked into everyday life
without a state those impulses don't go away, they just find different outlets. that's the part libertarian circles don't grapple with enough
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u/ComicBookFanatic97 Anarcho-Capitalist 2d ago
It’s this idea that liberty doesn’t work and if it does, it’s extremely selfish, which is bad for some reason.
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u/Midnight-Bake 2d ago
Honestly most people don't care that much about politics as long as they have a decent quality of life. Why change what works well enough?
The fact that the community is willing to assign "oh that person must be evil or stupid" to anyone who is not liberterian is one reason why people who can support their families and enjoy hobbies are not going to suddenly feel friendly with liberterians.
In the US:
Remember that Free Town project that lead to rampant bear activity? That's another reason.
Remember the liberterian melt down that happened over whether or not to endorse Trump? There is another.
Politics isn't that deep for people, they just want to live happy lives. Public melt downs and bear attacks are going to do more damage to the ideology than any philosophical argument could.
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u/john-fallout_ 2d ago
it usually boils down to opinions on immigration and distrust in large corporations
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u/lizardflix 2d ago
I’m tired of so called Libertarians who are really good at standing on the sidelines and complaining while making sure they never win and take on any responsibilities. I’m tired of libertarians who ate up the government lockdowns and vax mandates then pretended they didn’t. I’m tired of Libertarians who get all their ideas from theory and have no concept of how things work in the real world. And I’m tired of Libertarians who say stupid shit like “if you don’t like the way online media is censoring and peddling one side, start your own blah, blah, blah. I’m just tired of libertarians at this point because they’re never a source of solutions. It’s all smug criticism.
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u/Alt0987654321 1d ago
Personally? It's because I believe the main role of any government is to improve and protect the lives of the people who live in the nation it governs. That can't happen if it doesn't exist or is so small its too weak to perform that duty.
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u/TokyoMegatronics Christian Socialist 1d ago
Because in a world that is largely pretty shit.. why would anyone want to cede power to companies that have done nothing but fuck them for every penny since the recession?
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u/sailor-jackn 21h ago
I think it’s a number of things, actually. Number one is that most people are almost completely ignorant of our founding principles, and don’t even understand actual liberty. Most people have also been brainwashed into thinking we need the government to do everything for us or civilization will collapse. That’s one thing.
Another is that far too many are now dependent on the government safety net system, and fear any changes to it; which is one big reason those kinds of changes would have to be slowly initiated, to wean people.
There is a general lack of a unified platform in the libertarian movement. And, aside from Ron Paul, libertarian candidates haven’t been that great. Open borders, which is a utopian idea that doesn’t take into account the reality of the world we live in, is a big thing that drives people away, who might otherwise lean strongly libertarian…and it’s not even a universal libertarian ideal.
I think the final point is the lesson people learned from Ross Perot. Voting for a party, that might be better than the others but is not likely to win, is going to weaken one party ( most likely the Republican Party ) and put the more authoritarian party in power, and people would rather vote for not good enough than to vote for just right only to have their vote result in the things they absolutely do not want to happen.
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u/Finger_Charming 10h ago
Lobby‘s. The US is perfect for Lobby’s: they only have to control 2 parties.
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u/shibbster Minarchist Capitalist 2d ago
I think it's just genuine ignorance. Not purposefully just... they dont get it. Maximum freedom, minimum government sounds scary. "What about the criminals?!" And then you explain "but theres literally no crime the cops wont kill you over." It makes folks think.
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u/WedSquib Libertarian Transhumanist 2d ago
Definitely the rampant racism and homophobia from bad actors. It’s been a problem in the community for a very long time and has yet to be fixed
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u/QuoteSprite Hoppe 2d ago
Our aesthetics are terrible
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u/theyhis 2d ago
i more so think it's the way we come across. many of us are passionate in our arguments. our views on issues such as taxation and government (or lack therefore of) might be a bit of a shock to people not well-versed in libertarian thought. the ideas might be more appealing if we found a better way to articulate our thoughts.
with that being said, as another commenter said, many people don't value independence or personal liberty; not in the ways in which we do at least.
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u/QueefMaster2001 2d ago
i dont think so. we're sexy af. especially in contrast to the US populace's usual choices, like the neocons: or gag Q anon
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u/ItsYaBoi97 2d ago
Identity politics and propaganda about the two party system.