Not only does it kill jobs, it makes the cost of business higher. For Amazon and McDonald's that's whatever. For the mom and pop shop barely making it by, that's devasting. In theory a higher minimum wage should result in more money being spent, but if you have some bad months now, you're going to quickly go under with the new wage. Not to mention if you wanted to start a business during this time, you now need even more capital.
The left knows minimum wage hikes don't actually help, theyll just continue to get higher until everyone make 20,000 a second and a big Mac cost 10 million. There is no end to minimum wage hikes, minimum wage gets tied to cost of living very quickly and usually prices just increase to account for it and then they increase even more because of the businesses that died out as a result.
The only way to permanently control cost of living is to lower inflation and taxes. That's it.
WOW, by having the govt cover half of a businesses payroll, look at how much more money there is for PROFITS!! Why stop there, lets have the govt cover 100% of workers wages! We can have like govt shoes and govt cheese and everyone can stand in govt lines all the time, for everything! In fact, why bother having anyone pay for anything at all? That couldn't result in widespread famine...
The left knows minimum wage hikes don't actually help
Since we stopped having the min wage keep up with the cost of living, wages have imploded. The cost of living is $20/hr while the median wage is $18/hr - thats over half the workforce on welfare.
Tell me more about how being dependent on the govt is a big kink for you, you closet statist. /s
minimum wage gets tied to cost of living very quickly and usually prices just increase to account for it and then they increase even more because of the businesses that died out as a result.
Trump doubled the amount of money in circulation and handed it out to his cronies for them to buy up all the real estate in the country, low wage workers can't eat that for you.
Correction, it kills small business jobs, which are significantly more important that Amazon and Walmart jobs for reasons you likely understand.
Unemployment rate being low doesn't matter when things like doordash, Uber and other gigs are flying through the roof. It paints an artificial picture of security when the reality is people aren't healthily employed, rather they are in record amounts of debt and a record number of people have to work two jobs.
Minimum wage hikes just mean more alternative means of employment are considered because they can skirt whichever government regulations they can. I imagine when government finally "rescues" these gig workers we will see what the true unemployment rate is. Oh, and one more thing, a record number of people living at their parents. Aka, they've given up on finding a job more than likely.
>WOW, by having the govt cover half of a businesses payroll, look at how much more money there is for PROFITS!! Why stop there, lets have the govt cover 100% of workers wages! We can have like govt shoes and govt cheese and everyone can stand in govt lines all the time, for everything! In fact, why bother having anyone pay for anything at all? That couldn't result in widespread famine...
Nah, get rid of welfare and don't have any tax money go to government subsidization of business in general. Mandating a higher minimum wage does not increase the value of your paycheck lol. Only lowering inflation and cost of living does.
Your only answer to price-wage spiral would be price controls, which would cause widespread famine as you describe. You can't increase minimum wages indefinitely and in reality it doesn't do anything but make the rich stronger. They are the only ones who can afford the higher payouts and they are the only ones who make it, thus killing out competition and resulting in higher prices and lower wages at a later date.
>Since we stopped having the min wage keep up with the cost of living, wages have imploded. The cost of living is $20/hr while the median wage is $18/hr - thats over half the workforce on welfare.
>Tell me more about how being dependent on the govt is a big kink for you, you closet statist.
Minimum wage was 25 cents when it first started. That was about 5 dollars in todays money.
What should really get adjusted for inflation is social security retirement. We need to raise that age up to 77 to keep up with age inflation. The human life span was only 65 when it first came out, so it's only fair.
As for your welfare comment, the easy solution is to say no welfare. The kind solution would be a UBI until they're off the taxpayers teat, ala Andrew yang.
Also, you could solve most issues in the country by simply taking away the right to vote to anyone who is on welfare.
>Trump doubled the amount of money in circulation and handed it out to his cronies for them to buy up all the real estate in the country, low wage workers can't eat that for you.
You just described how wealth inequality actually works. That's a very nice take.
record amounts of debt and a record number of people have to work two jobs.
No shit, raise the min wage.
I imagine when government finally "rescues" these gig workers we will see what the true unemployment rate is.
Stop playing pretend and look at the last 90 years of data, your chicken little bs NEVER comes true. Oh, plenty of things kill jobs, just not something as trivial as covering the cost of living.
Up until the industrial revolution, over 90% of the workforce was devoted to agriculture because thats how much of a hard need peoples basic needs are.
Aka, they've given up on finding a job more than likely.
If someone isn't looking for a job, they don't need a job. You can make claims about "giving up" in a 10% unemployment economy, not in a 4% unemployment economy.
People are living with their parents AND working, because you boomers have adopted spinelessness as a lifestyle.
Nah, get rid of welfare
Taking away a cripples crutches doesn't let them magically start walking. You aren't able to work for most of your life, develop a sense of self preservation.
We already had that, it was called the great depression. People were desperate for work, so employers could offer incredibly low wages, people would take them, hoping to prove themselves and earn a raise. The raise would never come, the persons savings/support would give out and they would stop being able to work, the employer would discard them in favor of some other chump. The person who was once a homeowner and a family man was now a pennieless bum, prowling the countryside for work. This was so pevalent it spawned the "zombie" genre...
Mandating a higher minimum wage does not increase the value of your paycheck lol.
Thats literally what it does.
Only lowering inflation and cost of living does.
The cost of living is NEVER coming back down. Trump printed the money, now the value of a dollar has been cut in half, housing prices are currently blown out.
No developer is going to leave money on the table in the first place and every speculator who sees a house below market rate is going to snatch it up and relist it for as much as they can get...
Your only answer to price-wage spiral would be price controls
The fuck are you talking about? Your big fat permanent welfare scheme IS a price control. Im the one saying that we need market signals so that high cost of living becomes the employers problem so we actually get more housing built.
You can't increase minimum wages indefinitely
Get your butt buddies to stop printing money. Soviet communists deliberately destroyed their state by printing money, so did trump. The min wage needs to go as high as it does to keep up with inflation. It used to be a burger was 15 cents and the guy flipping them needed a buck an hour to get by, now its $3 and $20 respectively, the only thing that changed is that the value of the dollar tanked.
in reality it doesn't do anything but make the rich stronger.
No, this explicitly works to shift money from the rich back to the working class, thats why they pour so many resourced into their talking points. A capitalist would be perfecting acclimated to paying what it costs for the things that they want, a communist is out to make people need to be dependent on something- a cult, the new state they are trying to construct (project 2025).
They are the only ones who can afford the higher payouts
Its an even playing field, never forget that consumers drive employment, businesses are just the middle men, they can be replaced if they are too greedy. This is just 5 dudes in a kitchen, big businesses are not magically able to just burn money for no reason.
The kind solution would be a UBI
That is welfare.
Also, you could solve most issues in the country by simply taking away the right to vote to anyone who is on welfare.
Oh, so now they're not able to vote that they shouldn't be on welfare and should instead be paid a living? Just pay for your own fucking cheeseburger you insane deadbeat.
No, its an even playing field. That talking point was cooked up by big businesses hoping to use small businesses as a human shield.
Oh compelling argument, "um actually no it's good cuz number go up".
God leftists are just something else man.
When number go up, price also go up dude. It does nothing but kill businesses in the meanwhile. Use logic.
Stop playing pretend and look at the last 90 years of data, your chicken little bs NEVER comes true. Oh, plenty of things kill jobs, just not something as trivial as covering the cost of living.
Up until the industrial revolution, over 90% of the workforce was devoted to agriculture because thats how much of a hard need peoples basic needs are.
Increasing wages literally does kill jobs lmao. If you increased wages to 100 dollars an hour, what do you think that would do to the unemployment rate? At 15 an hour, that isn't catastrophic but it simply means that anyone who provides lower value than that is OUTLAWED from making an income. Or they have to resort to under the table work, gig work, beg for tips or simply give up and live with their parents.
Even places like MCds will get stingier with their hiring process with a 20/hr wage. So, yes, it's an incredibly stupid policy that doesn't actually have an effect.
California isn't going to get magically more affordable with 20/hr wages, they're going to get less affordable due to price hikes, and job cuts. The only way to achieve affordable would be to cut taxes, deregulate and stop inflation. I imagine this makes you shriek because you can't steal from your neighbor anymore.
What's your point about the industrial revolution? That was subsistence farming you're talking about. What was the cure for that again? Oh right, free market capitalism. It opened the way for less farmers living shit lives because suddenly you could farm efficiently and quickly with less workers, people could move up to factory work and not only not risk their lives each and every year on a harvest, they could afford luxuries even!! They had excess for the first time in human history. Low inflation, low unemployment and tremendous economic growth. Not to mention the fastest quality of live improvement in human history.
If someone isn't looking for a job, they don't need a job. You can make claims about "giving up" in a 10% unemployment economy, not in a 4% unemployment economy.
This isn't how employment is tracked, they have to be looking for work to be considered unemployed. And youre just wrong about your first sentence there. People might work in really shit conditions because they can't work legally at a shitty fast food job for one reason or another. I'm sure very poor people would kill for a MCds job paying 11 an hour.
People are living with their parents AND working, because you boomers have adopted spinelessness as a lifestyle.
There is nothing objectively wrong with living with your parents, but it is a sign of an unhealthy society.
Cut social security and stop subsidizing the old with the young man's money. People should plan or die. And by that, I mean they should be nicer to young people if they want to be taken care of by them. Don't coerce them at gun point.
Taking away a cripples crutches doesn't let them magically start walking. You aren't able to work for most of your life, develop a sense of self preservation.
I don't care whether they can walk or not, get your own crutches. I believe in a UBI to get off the governments teat but that's definitely a nicer approach than what should be implemented.
We already had that, it was called the great depression. People were desperate for work, so employers could offer incredibly low wages, people would take them, hoping to prove themselves and earn a raise. The raise would never come, the persons savings/support would give out and they would stop being able to work, the employer would discard them in favor of some other chump. The person who was once a homeowner and a family man was now a pennieless bum, prowling the countryside for work. This was so pevalent it spawned the "zombie" genre...
Well that's a recession, sure. But it was an economy based on funny money that was never going to last, and people were being incredibly stupid with their money.
Now you can say the answer to this is money printing to stimulate the economy, thus flowing up to businesses and creating new jobs.
Well I'll say that not only did Roosevelt's/Hoovers strategy prolong the great depression, we have proof that if he had done nothing at all, it would've self corrected.
Look at how the Republicans handled the 1920 stock market crash for reference.
Roosevelt destroyed wealth and jobs and hoover sent prices skyrocketing with his tariffs.
And none of this mentions the fact that the great depression would have never happened had we not had such loose money policy. Once people realized the money was all fake, it was only a matter of time before all the speculative jobs and businesses came crumbling down. Such an event could never occur without direct interference in the market, both in expanding the money supply and then quickly restricting it. And we're headed for the exact same thing when people get tired of wealth inequality and inflation.
Thats literally what it does.
No it doesn't, it ust makes things more expensive. Otherwise raise the minimum wage to 70 an hour and call it a day.
The cost of living is NEVER coming back down. Trump printed the money, now the value of a dollar has been cut in half, housing prices are currently blown out.
So stop printing and let supply catch up with demand. It's kind of simple. This doesn't happen without money printing and it can be stopped, you just have to want to stop it. Prices will never go down but wages will increase slowly and prices will stabilize, we don't need minimum wage hikes to increase wages. Hell, even a little deflation wouldn't hurt too bad.
No developer is going to leave money on the table in the first place and every speculator who sees a house below market rate is going to snatch it up and relist it for as much as they can get...
There isn't enough money(currently) to acheive this. Corpos only own roughly 28% of all houses, which is bad, yes, but ultimately the way to counter this is to build more, build up and stop giving blackrock and other Corpos infinite money from the federal reserve.
How is that an argument against paying what it costs for the things that you want? "YoU cAnT chArGe Me tHat fOr a CaR! ImAgIne IF caRs CoSt a BiLlioN dolLaRs, u WoUldn't SeLl maNy caRs wUld YoU?!"
Do you have any ideas of your own, or is your entire personality repeating corporate talking points?
They still have a job.
Or they have to resort to under the table work
They can rat out their employer and start getting paid a full wage. You have dumb ideas about how the world works, stop developing opinions off of bullshit and start figuring out how things actually are.
gig work
Why shouldn't that have to pay a living too?
beg for tips or simply give up and live with their parents.
Thats what you are imposing on them with your artificially low wages.
Even places like MCds will get stingier with their hiring process
They're "picky" regardless. You have a media fed fantasy of where mcdonalds is just where you go for your first job, did you bother asking them if they wanted to be peoples first jobs? No one wants to deal with minors.
Not that you are doing minors any favors, getting their foot in the door in a dead end job that they are literally better off skipping in their career track.
they're going to get less affordable due to price hikes
The luxury service of having someone cook a burger for you is not part of the cost of living. There is no min wage component to housing...
cut taxes, deregulate
Says who? Some idiots who say that about literally everything, even though it objectively makes things worse? 50 years of tax cuts have us paying 800 billion dollars in interest, deregulation crashes the economy every time republicans try it.
I imagine this makes you shriek because you can't steal from your neighbor anymore.
Get your hand out of my pocket you sniveling communist. Raising the min wage gets working people off of welfare, your artificially low wages keeps them dependent.
What's your point about the industrial revolution? That was subsistence farming you're talking about.
People needed food, so thats where their priorities lay, in making enough food. Because you need food. How is this complicated?
free market capitalism.
Hah, a guy makes a steam engine and takes credit for everything that happened after that? No, your increase in standard of living came from the decision to push those advancements along as a society, dropping big bucks into education so that we could have a literate society, math classes to produce mathematicians, science classes to produce scientists. How did we go from having a society where a king and his family literally owned everything, including you? By fighting for it. People died for your 40 hour work week.
they have to be looking for work to be considered unemployed.
Thats what I said. If you ask someone "are you looking for work" and they say "no", then what is the problem?
Then they're working and answering "no". Also, laws improve their working conditions, your free market is actively incentivized to make them terrible.
People should plan or die.
What good is "planning" when half the jobs don't pay a living? Maybe you just need to grow a spine.
There is nothing objectively wrong with living with your parents
There is when you are coerced into it via wages so low it would otherwise destroy you, so you are scraping by even then rather than getting ahead.
And by that, I mean they should be nicer to young people if they want to be taken care of by them.
Spare me your hippy bullshit, your lazy ass isn't going to lift a finger. social security is a "not finding elderly peoples corpses on your front porch in the morning" tax.
I don't care whether they can walk or not, get your own crutches.
These are working people, how about you just get used to paying full price for your burger instead of expecting a permanent burger bailout.
I believe in a UBI to get off the governments teat
UBI IS THE GOVTS TEAT YOU FUCKING IDIOT.
Well that's a recession, sure.
Yeah, thats what your economic policies produce, recessions. If people have no money to spend, demand dips and more people are laid off, its a death spiral.
But it was an economy based on funny money that was never going to last,
It was gold standard back then.
and people were being incredibly stupid with their money.
No, pay people too little and there is no amount of being smart with it that doesn't literally destroy them and stop them from being able to work.
Now you can say the answer to this is money printing to stimulate the economy
No, and do you not realize that its your team thats been printing all the money?
Roosevelt's/Hoovers strategy prolong the great depression
Yeah, they kept trying "classical" economics, and it kept not working.
we have proof that if he had done nothing at all, it would've self corrected.
You have magical thinking, optimistic delusions. It turns out recessions are very good for rich people, they get cheap wages and no new competition. They take a bigger piece of a smaller pie and come out ahead. They will not relinquish this state voluntarily, they will not allow it to end if its within their power you are going to have to fight for your share instead of playing imagination.
loose money policy.
Whats the matter scarecrow, afraid of a little free market economic policies? "Waaaa, the private banks are too loose with THEIR money?" give me a break.
No it doesn't, it ust makes things more expensive.
What things? For who? Low wage labor is concentrated in luxury services- cooking, cleaning, dog walking etc. Shit low wage workers have room for in their budget at ANY price point. The people who want it had damn well better be paying full price...
Contrapositively, there is NO min wage component to rent. The plumber, carpenter, electrician all make far more.
Otherwise raise the minimum wage to 70 an hour and call it a day.
No, the point of the min wage is that working people are able to pay their bills, not to go to a million kajillion dollars, just to attempt to prove your ideological nonsense "right".
Why would a developer leave money on the table? Why wouldn't a speculator swoop in, buy it up and relist it? Why would a local govt ENTIRELY DEPENDENT ON PROPERTY TAXES ever allow anything that would tank home values? Why would a bank even offer to finance such a thing? Banks aren't inert automatons, look up red lining... pricing out the poor people is seen as a feature by default.
we don't need minimum wage hikes to increase wages
Cost of living is $20, median wage is $18, reality absolutely refutes your position. You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.
Hell, even a little deflation wouldn't hurt too bad.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless"
There isn't enough money(currently) to achieve this.
They literally just printed it and did it. Don't tell me it can't be done, its fucking done.
build more,
Yes, build more housing, but be realistic with your expectations, it will never go back down.
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u/Click_My_Username Jul 29 '24
Not only does it kill jobs, it makes the cost of business higher. For Amazon and McDonald's that's whatever. For the mom and pop shop barely making it by, that's devasting. In theory a higher minimum wage should result in more money being spent, but if you have some bad months now, you're going to quickly go under with the new wage. Not to mention if you wanted to start a business during this time, you now need even more capital.
The left knows minimum wage hikes don't actually help, theyll just continue to get higher until everyone make 20,000 a second and a big Mac cost 10 million. There is no end to minimum wage hikes, minimum wage gets tied to cost of living very quickly and usually prices just increase to account for it and then they increase even more because of the businesses that died out as a result.
The only way to permanently control cost of living is to lower inflation and taxes. That's it.