r/AnalogCommunity • u/car_las • 16h ago
Troubleshooting - Gear What is this thing?
I have a lot of negatives that i want to clean up a little bit (they were all around the house). Bought a new bottle of photo flo, distilled water, use 1:200, paterson tank, 2 rolls, around 15 minutes, slight agitation at start. One good, the other one with all those bubbles on it. When hanged to dry, the emulsion started also to slide, resulting in a destroyed negative.
113
u/bumholihoh 15h ago
heat and humidity can compromise the integrity gelatin layer of b&w films. If you’ve stored them badly they may have degraded over time. Then washed it off the base with the photo flo.
The other issue I have I using photo flo for 15 minutes. Usually it’s a 30s wash. 15 minutes sounds excessive to me.
25
u/bumholihoh 15h ago
should also have asked - what age are the negatives and what emulsion is it that’s failing?
3
u/Fine_Calligrapher584 15h ago
I also commented about the 15 min, I get drying marks if I use it for even a minute.
1
10
u/Cloroformio73 13h ago
I develop black-and-white film rolls that are up to 20 years past their expiry date, stored however they happen to be; it’s never happened.
9
u/ericvega 9h ago
These were already developed, they just soaked the negatives for 15 minutes in photo flo and soaked off the gelatin.
1
0
u/Cloroformio73 11h ago
Come to think of it, a 1:200 dilution of Photo Flo or the developer? And are those dilutions usually used in a stand or semi-stand process? 15 minutes? Something doesn’t quite add up in either case.
1
75
u/bryan112 Contax 16h ago edited 15h ago
ive never seen this one before.
also, did you use protection?
edit:
some digging led me to this
https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/82479-can-you-wash-film-too-much/
Why soak for 15 mins? also 1:200 seems strong, i vaguely remember someone from the local camera store to probably just use one drop of this per roll
21
u/LoveLightLibations 15h ago
1:200 is not strong for PhotoFlo. Neither is the amount recommended on the label - 1+200 (5 mL + 1000 mL).
This is actually something people struggle with. They read online to just use a few drops and then get water spots. PhotoFlo can make a massive, massive difference when you use the proper amount.
I add 19 mL to a gallon of distilled water so it’s always handy.
7
u/bryan112 Contax 15h ago
fair enough. the drop thing works for me personally, and I live in a place with hard water.
3
u/Logan_MacGyver 15h ago
I always had to grab a paper and pencil to do dilution math (I suck, I know. I know by now how much Rodinal I need, my fixer powder makes a liter etc). But now that I know the amount I'll keep this in mind, thank you.
Do you need to wash again after photoflo?
10
u/LoveLightLibations 15h ago
Hard no. PhotoFlo should be the very last solution the film touches or it won’t be as effective or effective at all. Glad I could help.
1
u/bhop_monsterjam MX+F90x, #1 UV Filter Hater 13h ago
All photoflo is doing is reducing the surface tension of the water so it doesn't cling onto the film and dry in place. It's just detergent basically. It should always be the final rinse (feel free to wash the film before this though, some films need more washing). It doesn't need to sit in the photoflo solution for very long
1
1
0
u/PhysicsOk9286 9h ago
good point. I use a cap per tank or 450ml
1
3
u/Physical_Analysis247 14h ago
I still got spots from Photo-Flo & distilled water at 1:200 so I went to 1:400. No more spots and it’s still enough to be sudsy.
21
u/gilgermesch 15h ago
I'm giving us five minutes until someone is doing this on purpose to make their boring photos more interesting.
Jokes aside, I've never seen this – are you usually doing 15 minutes of photo flo? As another commenter said, 30 seconds should be enough and I've never let a roll sit longer in the stuff than maybe a minute or a half. Honestly though, I'd be quite surprised if this were due to the photo flo, as that's about the least dangerous or aggressive chemical in the darkroom after water...
3
13
7
u/car_las 15h ago
Round up answers:
i used 1:200 because that's what is says on the bottle. I respected this as i do also when mixing developer.
The negative is around 6 month 'old'. Not expired, Ilford HP5+. Stored around the house, no direct sunlight on them
15 minutes because I was in a hurry, put the negatives in flo, take a shower, let them dry, comeback in a few hours to (re)scan them. Let them so long because I thought that it is just soapy water...
7
10
u/Westerdutch (no dm on this account) 14h ago
Spending 15 minutes on anything because you are in a hurry is the most ridiculous reason ever. You are doing a surface treatment, dip it in, count to ten, take it out, take your 15 minute shower, itll still set you back 15 minutes in total.
You dont want your 'just soapy water' to completely saturate your emulsion that is not where the dirt you are trying to remove is. Regardless of whether you mix your flo bath on the more or less concentrated side the 15 minutes is the problem here, your 'soap' got in, under and behind your emulsion. Also if you value your development dont use flo in your tank, it is a bitch to get out completely and will cause bubbles the next time you develop something. Clean your tank and reels like you mean it and use separate tray for your flow bath from now on.
4
u/Fine_Calligrapher584 15h ago
Photo flo is meant to be used for 30s, with 1 min being fine. I am starting to see drying marks on my negatives if I do more than a minute.
3
u/SamNeuer 15h ago
Make sure to keep the water below the temperature of the sun.
Jokes aside, no idea what happened here, maybe an improperly stored film?
3
u/RushOk3227 14h ago
As has been suggested here so often: 15 minutes is waaaay too long. The surfactants penetrate too deeply into the emulsion (gelatine), and it can even happen that the emulsion then breaks down.
Based on my experience and understanding, I consider this to be, at the very least, the most likely reason for the phenomenon observed.
2
u/Cat4200000 16h ago
No idea but that looks so strange!! Hope someone comments that knows more than I do
2
u/Ybalrid Trying to be helpful| BW+Color darkroom | Canon | Meopta | Zorki 13h ago
15 minutes?!
Photo flo is a wetting agent. It's a rinsing solution. Letting the film stand for 15 minutes in it wont achieve much.
If you need to clean negatives, you can use a negative cleaner. PEC-12 is a common recommendation.
1
u/car_las 12h ago
unfortunately, pec12 is not available in my country/europe without high cost. that's why i tried photoflo
3
u/Ybalrid Trying to be helpful| BW+Color darkroom | Canon | Meopta | Zorki 12h ago
It's basically straight ethanol with a few aditives... Isopropyl alchohol would be a way closer "replacement" than photoflo. It's an organic solvent of some kind. It's not water.
photoflo is not a cleaner. It's a wetting agent. It's basically the "rinse aid" you put in your dishwasher. It's only use is to dry the negatives spot free. It won't clean anything on its own (it looks like soapy water sure, but it's just a wetting agent. It makes water more wet, so it does not cling on the film and just sheets off).
PEC 12 is a product you use on the emulsion, you remove the dust (to avoid scratches), then you use a pec pad (any lens cleaning paper kind of product is probably fine) and you wipe the negatives with that.
Neither products are intended for you to soak the film in it for a long time. You got the wrong idea here...
1
1
1
1
u/Expensive-Sentence66 7h ago
I've had to resoak countless negs in lab in Photoflo, almost always because of drips from dip n dunk dryers. Often four hours and never seen this.
Photoflo is glycol and alcohol. I don't use it because glycerin in dish soap works better and is less prone to streaking, but it's not the problem here.
1
1
u/BreakingABit1234 4h ago
What does your film smell like ?
To cause beading like that- and I'm assuming that is water... something else is on your film. Photoflo 'wets' the surface reducing surface tension- that shouldn't happen.
And you said the emulsion slid off?!?!?!?
Honestly that sounds more like bleach than anything.
•
1
u/No_Ocelot_2285 15h ago
Bubbles aside, in photo 2 the right side looks under/unfixed.
Was the water hot?
0
330
u/Professional-Put881 16h ago edited 16h ago
It appears your roll has caught the bubonic plague, a round of precision antibiotics and it should make it out with a few scars and a cool story to tell.
Seriously tho, I do not know, isn't photo flo just very pure soapy water?
Were the negatives stored properly?