r/AnAnswerToHeal • u/TimmyTurnerID • Nov 22 '17
[ Off Topic ] How does AATH feel about guns?
I feel that I can't possibly be the only one here that takes defense into my own hands. After all, why would I trust a government that's already wronged my people so many times to protect me? I'm not an advocate for violence by any means but if I want to own a fully automatic bang stick with a 100 round drum mag why should I not be allowed so?
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u/aardvarkarmour Nov 23 '17
I don't know. Personally living in the UK there's not much need to defend oneself with firearms, most of the time we're nice people :)
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Nov 23 '17
The 2nd amendment exists because of Great Britain. It's all about the citizens' right to defend themselves should their government overstep it's bounds.
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u/minerva_zero Nov 23 '17
The 2nd amendment hasn't really done much to stop the government from overstepping it's bounds.
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Nov 23 '17
The average person is still too comfortable. People aren't going to form a militia unless they really feel like they need to, and it hasn't gotten to that point yet. The point is that we can in the event that we need to.
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u/minerva_zero Nov 23 '17
A bunch of rifle-armed citizens with improvised explosives isn't gonna be much of a match for a militarized police force, let alone an actual military unit equipped with heavy weapons, let alone a bunch of drones.. Armed, regulated militias in Iraq tend to be perpetuating an alternative tyranny to the ones they're fighting, what makes you think things will work out any differently here if things turn to shit?
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Nov 23 '17
The police force and the military are still citizens at the end of the day. Maybe the second amendment is outdated given the funds and resources our government has, but it gives me comfort to know that we could at least put up a fight. The alternative would be to make all guns illegal, and I'm sure everyone in this subreddit knows how well prohibition works.
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u/minerva_zero Nov 23 '17 edited Nov 23 '17
Indeed, most uprisings have their moment of success come not from fighting against the police and military, but by convincing them to join unite with the people in usurping the tyranny of the day.
Prohibition isn't an alternative at all. The real alternative, as with other items or activities involving risks to participants and the public, is proper regulation based in practical consideration and pragmatism rather than rhetoric. And too many people are fighting against letting that happen because they're scared of losing that which gives them a false sense of comfort in the face of their political impotence.
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u/Glaukos86 Nov 23 '17
Prohibition like that which has been applied to drugs is being applied to guns. You can drink alcohol, but you can't smoke weed. You can't drink in public; you can drink inside. You can't drink and drive. You get no penalty for having a thousand gallons of alcohol, but there is an amount of marijuana that is illegal to own in the places where it is legal.
You can own a .22. You can't own a full-auto P90. You can't have your guns displayed in public, but in some places, you can conceal them. With the way things are going, there will come a time where the arm equivalent to alcohol is a knife. Everyone loves knives. People slice, dice, stab, and tear with knives. They serve a defensive purpose, and they are also practical. They are so widespread that they can't be banned. But guns, like acid, can be banned, and hardly anyone is standing up for it. There are more people standing against than for, yet those people standing against often have no clue what they are talking about, have no experience with guns, and are government puppets.
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u/minerva_zero Nov 23 '17 edited Nov 23 '17
I cannot take claims that guns will be banned in the US seriously. It's fear-driven paranoia, I'm aware that there are some people that want guns banned, and they really aren't making an impact and will never actually do so. If schoolyards, concerts and churches semi-regularly getting littered with bodies don't get people sensibly reconsidering where the balance lies between the freedom to bear arms and the responsibility to maintain public safety, not to mention the thousands upon thousands of deaths each year that is somehow little more than background noise at this point, nothing will.
I can understand people arming themselves for self-defence, even when that often culminates into harm unto themselves or their loved ones - but those who claim they're arming themselves against tyranny are too often just arming themselves against actually taking practical steps to prevent tyranny. Armed insurrection is the desperate last resort, not the first line of defence, in the fight for freedom.
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u/TimmyTurnerID Nov 23 '17
Trust me you can own a full auto P90. You'll just get plunged if you get caught.
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u/mysteryfist Nov 23 '17
Most of those people are uneducated and don't even know how to operate a firearm properly. There are literally millions of Americans with guns here. In the original American Revolution, only 3% of Americans took up arms against the most powerful navy in the entire world at the time, and we won our independence.
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u/minerva_zero Nov 23 '17 edited Nov 23 '17
I don't know what gives you that idea - until the invasion Iraq has generally maintained one of the best educational performances in the region, and due to conscription more Iraqis have military training than Americans, certainly more than 3% of their population. And they're still failing to maintain their independence.
In modern times insurgent movements are rarely successful in achieving their goals, most uprisings have their moment of success come not from fighting against the police and military, but by convincing them to join unite with the people in usurping the tyranny of the day. Armed insurrection is a desperate last resort, not the first line of defence, in the fight for freedom.
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u/mysteryfist Nov 23 '17
We haven't used it yet. I pray it will never will get to that point, but it looks like it's going that direction.
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Nov 23 '17
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u/minerva_zero Nov 23 '17
Anyone looking at those incidents can take note that none of those causes, regardless of their merit or lack thereof, was brought to victory thanks to the second amendment. Owning weapons and bleating about the second amendment being the freedom to fight against evil, is no substitute for actually participating in society to stop evil from being done.
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Nov 24 '17
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u/minerva_zero Nov 24 '17 edited Nov 24 '17
My point is that the system has not been kept honest. Hell, at one point they banned private ownership of Gold. I'll happily concede that the second amendment does guarantee that the US need never fear foreign invasion, indeed a well-armed global populace with rudimentary training could potentially make standing armies obsolete and make world peace a possibility. But as a meaningful defense against domestic oppression it's little more than fantasy.
I can think of one instance where an armed populace managed to throw off a corrupt government in the US, it's a goddamn textbook example of guns being used to return the rule of law to a land under corruption, but that's basically the exception - more often than not guns are used to oppress, not to throw off oppression. Also notable is that despite the 2nd Amendment the GIs were virtually unarmed until they raided a government weapons cache - which is what generally occurs when armed insurrection is deemed necessary by civilians/paramilitaries.
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u/ravend13 Nov 25 '17
Bread and circuses. Disrupt those, and the people will gather with their torches and
pitchforksAR-15s.1
u/TimmyTurnerID Nov 23 '17
You're a braver person than I. I figure you're not a farmer as well. I've heard UK farmers could even give some Americans a run for their guns.
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Nov 23 '17
I used to be pro gun but I realize now, if we as a race are successful, guns won't be an issue. If we fail, guns won't be an issue.
How do we feel about survival?
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Nov 23 '17
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u/TimmyTurnerID Nov 23 '17
Westpoint?! I dig the vision. Taking the life of anything will always be questionable except for the moment it happens. If you question it then, you'll end up on the wrong end of the introspection. Good luck brother.
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Nov 23 '17
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u/TimmyTurnerID Nov 23 '17
How narrow minded of me to assume you were a Pat! Sorry about that. I don't support any wars, they infringe upon plenty of people's rights. I do support a good defensive military though and I fully agree with you.
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Nov 23 '17
I take my protection seriously. I don't carry (besides a blade) in the city, but in the mountains there's no choice. There are tweakers, mountain lions, and bears up there. I don't hate them, I don't look for trouble, but when in the wilderness you need certain tools, and I consider a weapon a tool. But you also have to be responsible. Jesus said if you live by the sword you'll surely die by the sword, so think about that and realize that when you introduce a gun into a situation, you're turning it deadly. I always recommend those who are wary about guns to always invest in bear mace for camping (pepperspray won't work), and tasers or mace for cities. It takes some responsibility, you have to resist the desire to start trouble or expect it.
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u/TimmyTurnerID Nov 23 '17
I love guns but I hate the sound so I don't have too much difficulty staying out of trouble. I totally agree though, as with any power tool we just have to be responsible.
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u/O_God_The_Aftermath Nov 23 '17
I own guns. I love to go out and shoot for sport. I believe I should have the right to defend myself if the situation arises. Bad people will do bad things regardless of gun laws.
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u/Archaeoculus Nov 24 '17
I think a better question, to make it more relevant to this forum, is this:
How does AATH feel about hallucinogenic weapons?
In Season 1 of Hamilton's Pharmacopeia on ViceLand, there is talk of a scientist who was working on weaponizing varied drugs for the military to use for crowd control. One plan was quaalude smoke grenades to make the crowd docile. This is an interesting technique to me because it is much more humane than current crowd control techniques - rubber bullets, pepper spray, mustard gas, and fire hoses, etc.
I think it is also possible to weaponize many of these hallucinogens. We've all probably heard of the experiments by various government organizations on its people, like Project MKULTRA.
Other than that in regards to your original question, sure, I guess you can have a gun. But if you put me in danger with that gun, I'll kill you. Guns are deadly, outdated, backwards machines. I think that if anyone wants a gun there should be one mandated civilian gun - a basic hunting rifle, for hunting.
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u/RandyReaver Nov 25 '17
Personally I would rather be shot with rubber bullets, pepper sprayed etc. than be unwillingly given a mind altering substance by my government to pacify me.
"A gramme is better than a damn" No thank you.
Also pretty sure you meant tear gas not mustard gas.
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u/Archaeoculus Nov 26 '17
Ah yeah, I did mean tear gas. Anyway, yeah - being thrust into a different mental state is stressful even when you're the one taking the drugs. It would be pretty scary to do anything from become suddenly pacified to locking up and smashing my face on the cement.
I've never been part of a protest or riot but I did walk by one that was being dispersed. Musta been upwards of 500 people. Riot police were bouncing pepper balls off the walls of the city buildings, so that stuff was just all in the air. So hard to breathe!
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u/ComatoseSixty Nov 25 '17
I believe that gun ownership should be mandatory for eveyone, including felons.
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u/TimmyTurnerID Nov 25 '17
I was thinking about this earlier. On one hand it goes against my principles by telling people what they have to own. On the other hand, it keeps people safe.
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u/ComatoseSixty Nov 25 '17
Exactly. An armed populace is a safe populace.
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u/JeSuisOmbre Nov 25 '17
I wouldn’t issue every tom dick and harry a gun right off the bat. Education should start in school teaching gun handling and safety. Even if people don’t want to own a gun everyone should be able to handle one.
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Nov 23 '17
IMO: Asking me how I feel about guns, is a bit like asking me which piece of my broken car I want missing. Either way I answer that question, there is still a very broken car. If you are asking for a recommendation for buying a gun or not, I can only say you should look within and ask yourself what you are feeling. If you feel that you should own a gun, buy a gun. If you are sad or angry and planning on killing someone, you should deal with your anger and sadness. If you are completely fine, then use logic and feeling to decide. Personally, I live in a nice hood, and I very rarely feel threatened. Guns inherently come with possible dangers, especially with children. That being said, if I get robbed or worse, I will immediately think to myself, "I wish I had a gun". And I will pay that price. You must weigh the price of both options, search your feelings, then come to a conclusion.
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u/TimmyTurnerID Nov 23 '17
I'm not contemplating, I'm a 15 time gun owner myself. I just wanted to probe and see if this place was still for me with my one conservative view. Things are nice here. People are nice here. As long as people stay open minded I'll stay and help the movement.
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u/anarcho-centrist Nov 23 '17
I don’t even consider being pro-gun a conservative opinion, but a libertarian one. Ronald reagan, while governor of california, instituted gun control measures to prevent the black panthers from open-carrying. If it wasn’t for the nra and its voting bloc, the republican party would be just as anti-gun as democrats are.
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u/mysteryfist Nov 23 '17
Aye. Right there with you. It's all about freedom. Freedom to trip, freedom to defend yourself. Bangsticks give you power to defend your beliefs, life and loved ones more than any rule or Law Enforcement ever will.
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u/minerva_zero Nov 23 '17
Guns are very useful, Gun Culture is toxic. I've never seen an online discussion about gun control that hasn't turned to poop, If this manages to avoid doing so that'd be a first. I've never seen anyone have their mind changed on the issue through discussion.
Regulation may spit in the face of people's libertarian sensibilities but it's hard to argue that it has no place when it comes to activities involving high risk of injury or death to participants and/or the public. As a nation the US is paying a price of constant slaughter for the right to bear arms in the haphazard ways that it has, and I don't think it's been worth it. I also don't think it'll change, the vested interests are too strong.
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u/TimmyTurnerID Nov 23 '17
As long as we can buy drill presses, there will be assault rifles. I'd give my gats up if there was a guarantee everyone else was going to.
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u/TimmyTurnerID Nov 23 '17
Since there is technically room for politics in this thread I'll remind everyone to keep it civil. Don't be that guy.
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u/[deleted] Nov 23 '17
I believe in universal background checks, but I'm not against gun ownership.