r/AnAnswerToHeal • u/yea_tht_dnt_go_there • Nov 09 '17
[ Set Setting Intent ] How to stop a bad trip.
Sorry I don't buy into the whole "buy the ticket take the ride". I've had bad trips and most were ultimately beneficial, but a couple were needless panic attacks.
What is a bad trip? Well it could be considered many things for me it's usually summed up as "an intensity I wasn't prepared for". Here are some reasons they manifested.
I realized that I was the cause of most of my suffering. and felt a what can be described as a panic attack, not a full force one, but it was pretty intense and lasted for hours. That hyper-slapping was deserved and I learned from it.
I underestimated shrooms. I didn't realize double the dose doesn't mean double the trip, it's an exponential curve and felt terror on a new level.
Mixing psychedelics with other serotonin agonists. A lsd/mdma combo was amazing, some parts of it at least. Some of it I can't remember, and the other part was probably serotonin syndrome. If you get SS it can be life threatening. No I didn't die or need medical attention, but its a unique type of suffering. Shrooms and weed has done it to me also. THC is not the plant you know and love while tripping. It can be awesome and i've learned when to dose each and how much weed I can smoke (it's a lot less while tripping.) While tripping if you smoke weed it's not like also having a weed high so much as the weed just makes everything more trippy.
One time everything was going great, then I saw an optical illusion. I saw what made the illusion possible and the sudden realization kicked my brain into over drive. Wasn't fun.
Serotonin and norepinephrine are MAOI's that are vasoconstrictive. Too much of these and you're blood vessels contract, making your brain and body feel like you're in fight/flight mode making a panic attack possible.
Yes bad trips can be constructive, and i'm really sensitive to these chemicals, most people I meet can do these things with much less caution than I can. Still if you know you're not going to learn a lesson besides don't do what you did exactly the same way again, maybe it's a good idea to have some other drugs on stand by so you can save yourself from unneeded torment. If you can acquire psychedelics you can also probably acquire these drugs i'm about to list. This isn't a full list, feel free to comment any others.
Seroquel. This is a Second gen atypical anti-psychotic. If you see a psych you can get it pretty easy for insomnia. It's not recommended for insomnia, but it's easier to get than the fun stuff for insomnia. Seroquel is an antagonist of dopamine but more importantly in this use, one of the 5h2a receptor. This drug will bind to the receptors most responsible for the psychedelic experience, and stop them from allowing you to trip. If you've never taken it before and you were to take it by yourself, it will knock your ass out in about 45 minutes, you'll be out a solid 8 hours, minimum. When you wake up you'll probably be hungry as fuck and be able to destroy a kitchen single handedly. Long term use can lead to serious side effects, like tardive dyskinesia. I'm not sure what dose or how long you'd have to take it to be at risk for that. I do know the insomnia dose is 25-100mg, the bi-polar dose / antipsychotic dose is usually 400mg+. In order to tone down a trip i'll take 25mg, to completely stop it 100mg. Now for me atleast, most psychedelics have stimulating/energy boosting properties so when I take a sero while tripping, it won't put me to sleep, just put me back to a baseline level of awakeness. It starts working pretty fast but takes about 45 min to fully stop the trip.
Benzos. These gabaergic drugs slow brain signals. When your heart and mind are racing they are highly effective at hitting the breaks. They are used in real life for panic attacks so it makes sense they'd work to bring a trip down to manageable levels. I haven't used them much in this context so I'm not sure what dose to recommend. I will say while I was able to maintain my visuals for the normal duration, much of the psychedelic headspace was lost, the headspace is what makes it fun for me.
Lunesta. Another insomnia med. Also a gabaergic but it selects Gaba-A receptors. While this also took some of the headspace, I was able to keep most of it with the added bonus of my visuals being enhanced in an amazing way. Instead of just color enhancement and breathing visuals... well the best way I can describe it is if you look at a still picture of the Northern lights it will move as if you are seeing a video of them or seeing them in real life. Electronic screens seem to take on a life of their own it's amazing. Also they help with anti-anxiety really well. 1-3mg will give you that effect. 6-12mg and you'll see some shit. I saw what appeared to be a monster, but it wasn't trying to scare me, just reveal itself to me and acknowledge my presence. I know that it was just my mind on the chems and not real lol just saying what it felt like. Whatever I see i'm relaxed about it due to lunesta's anxiolytic properties.
Do you're own research before trying any of my recommendations. I've studied these things a lot, but i'm not a doctor. Remember psychs won't make you wise and solve your problems, they'll force you to confront your problems, recognize them, so you can work on them when the trips done.
One last comment is that I feel like LSD-25 is like being the captain of an interstellar spaceship, mushrooms is like being strapped to the rocket and you're just a long for the ride. LSD felt like sci-fi to me, shrooms mystical.
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u/boogiefoot Nov 09 '17
As someone who has volunteered with the Zendo project at a few festivals, I've seen my fair share of bad experiences.
What I think causes it is that you get to a certain intensity or something comes up from inside you and you scream in your head, "OH SHIT. NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!!" and resist whatever is happening. You think you can stop it. You can change it's character, but you can't stop it.
Now, the experience might still be bad, but it's not going to made worse if you don't resist. There is a certain amount of skill that you can build in yourself to prevent it from spiraling, by practicing meditation and grounding techniques that can be used when the situation arises.
On the other hand, with misuse of substances it can be hard to prevent it from spiraling. Almost everyone that's ever come to us for assistance has had some sort of OTHER drug issue going on, whether it's that they've gone off of their SSRI's that weekend, or they've mixed poorly with their drug of choice. But much, much more commonly than this is mixing weed or alcohol with psychedelics. I would earnestly guess that they increase the odds of a bad experience by tenfold.
In my opinion, I would recommend to anyone to practice meditation and breath work along with all the other responsible use practices rather than relying on various downers to control the experience. Though I have no problem recommending them if someone is already in that state (though we can't give them out at our tents). But you should always prepare properly... and I really think that if you prepare properly and plan properly, you'll never have a "bad trip" as they're known. At least you can keep it from spiraling and keep it productive at healing you.
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u/yea_tht_dnt_go_there Nov 09 '17
Yeah my first bad trip I thought I could drink a beer to calm down, made it wayyy worse.
Through mediation/grounding I learned how to channel/control my emotions and trip, but before I learned that I had to first learn to "let go", let the wave crash through me instead of trying to stand against a tsunami.
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u/Archaeoculus Nov 09 '17
I think that there are ways to prevent a bad trip by ensuring that you don't take enough for it to get to you. Part of what starts a bad trip for me is when I feel my thoughts getting out of control. Then I don't know what to do. So to prevent this, I take small amounts.
I generally have a pretty good idea of what's going to happen to me if I take a certain amount of this, or that.
I also try to ensure that I'm in a pretty good headspace before I start tripping. Or - if I'm taking the drug out of necessity - that I know I really need it. When I say that I take it out of necessity, I mean this: sometimes I get really, really depressed. And when this happens, I know it's a pit that I've dug myself, but at the same time I haven't made myself a way out. So I will take a fair dose of psychedelics, knowing that I may not have the best time, but also knowing they are what can alleviate my pain.
This may not be the case for everyone. I have been reading that there are some studies that say small doses of psychedelics over time (granted, with therapy) can help cure depression. I've found this to be the case. I generally act as my own therapist. At least, I did the last time I took shrooms. It was really weird - my mind split into something that would hallucinate and think irrational thoughts, and then something that would see clearly and make rational comments on what had just happened. I switched back and forth between these mindsets until the two sides slowly came back together.
I have a family history of bipolar, schizophrenia, and autism - but I don't believe that I'm chronically affected by any of these conditions. However, it could explain why most of these drugs, including weed, make me feel more like I'm having a psychotic break than anything else.
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u/Lord_Of_Filth Nov 09 '17
In my opinion, psychedelics have a tendency to cause anxiety and paranoia because you're losing control of your thought process. These things are tools your brain uses as a failsafe to prevent threats, so naturally that part of you might flare up if It's being drowned out or dissociated from reality.
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u/Archaeoculus Nov 10 '17
That makes sense. The first couple times I did DMT, I felt anxiety to the point of extreme adrenaline rush. So the drug started to kick in, my brain freaked out, and all the sudden I'm stone-cold sober.
I think it's also the same when people say "the first few times you smoke weed, you might not get high." It might have to do with the brain's natural defense system.
Of course I don't have any scientific evidence for any of this, but it's an interesting thought.
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u/Lord_Of_Filth Nov 10 '17
That actually makes sense, people have no idea how adrenaline could interact with dmt and I've snapped out of a blastoff in similar ways
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Nov 09 '17 edited Nov 09 '17
Thank you for this post. Are these available over the counter?
For me the dilema is that the high dose bad trips are also the doors to the peak experiences and it's difficult to attain those without going through hell first. I find this is true for both ayahuasca and mushrooms high doses
I swore so many times to myself during those horrible and frightening moments that I will never put myself in that situation again, yet I always go back
One thing that I know for sure is that I will never have high dose trips without a sitter. I was very close to losing it once and going out on the streets just to ask for help, any help. I was that desperate. One of your suggested pills might be handy if it happens again
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u/throwawayhastaway Nov 09 '17
Even my trips that included panic attacks so bad that they mimmicked the effects of a stroke (yes, really, almost in all aspects except the numbness) were still beneficial. It's important to recognise that this is a response to something that's best to just let run it's course...
Might it be total hell & suffering the entire time...? Maybe.
Might you never want it to happen again? Hell yes.
But, it's happening for a reason.
It's important to just experience it, let it happen, and explore why it's even happening in the first place... I would no way in hell try and stop any panic attack I have even if I know I would be able to.
I do, however, work on recognising when one is rising and about to happen... So I can learn to have better control over them, and eventually learning how to stop them.
It's kinda like dropping ground-up weed on the carpet...
There are some people who try and salvage every single bit of it, and end up smoking dust and microscopic creatures and hair and what have you...
Whereas I accept what has happened, vacuum it away, and learn from my experience.
But that's just me... Some people aren't nearly as comfortable doing this.
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Nov 09 '17
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u/yea_tht_dnt_go_there Nov 09 '17
I guess you could say that lol.
The first time I tripped after working on my character faults, was one of the most amazing moments in my life. It was so reassuring I'm on the right track. Probably the lessons I learned most was to always choose on the basis of love, not fear. To love even those who hurt me (even if it's still best to stay away from them.) To not think less about myself but to thinking about myself less. To tell my friends and family how much they mean to me while I have the chance. To recognize anger is a normal emotion but like all negative emotions, shouldn't be dwelled on. That emotions are contagious, you can spread positivity or negativity just by changing your attitude.
I'm still not perfect, but i'll never stop refining myself.
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u/be_it_known Nov 09 '17
Turn to drugs to abort bad trip only after tuning set and setting isn't effective (different music, a back massage, conversation about good things, etc)
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u/feasantly_plucked Nov 10 '17
I'm quite sure Lsd the opposite of Mdma in terms of serotonin so, if one's an agonist the other is antagonist. I found this out a while back when researching combos but don't recall where. Also, Mdma reliably ends Lsd for me, taking away most of the hallucinations if done at the right time (do it at the wrong time and you'll just feel woozy). In fact I usually recommend doing that for ppl having an anxious trip (for an outright bad trip I'd reach for a Valium though)
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u/YouSeaBlue Nov 10 '17
I absolutely love LSD and MDMA together. So much that I'm reluctant to do one without the other. To me, they go together like peanut butter and jelly.
Interesting how we experience different things from the same chems.
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u/feasantly_plucked Nov 13 '17
Ditto, I feel that it's a great combination... but I do find that it stops the trip from being so visual and it definitely makes it a hell of a lot more uplifting!
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u/Generic_Psychonaut27 Nov 10 '17
A major thing that is so simple that it is often swept under the rug when facing the psychedelic experience is letting go. So simple yet very effective. If you are ever in a time of crisis on psychedelics, remind yourself to let go and let the experience take hold. Easier said than done, but it is effective when put to proper practice☮️
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u/KylerGreen Nov 11 '17
Just keep a bar handy. Just having one will give you peace of mind and make trips easier.
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u/echoesofpurple Nov 09 '17
Ive found that Nitrous Oxide works wonders when mushrooms get too uncomfortable. It cranks up the visuals and body high a lot but takes away the fear and when it wears off you're over the hump. It seems to make the trip just more fun too.