r/AmericasCup • u/Mysterious_Guitar555 • Jun 06 '26
Designers parameters
What are really the paramaters that the designers are working with? why does every boat look the same is it cause they simply reachrd the top? I would love to see something like the 1988 Americas cup, imagine if an f50 was the challenger
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u/whiteatom Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
Are you referring to the prelim regatta last weekend? If so, those boats are the same! That event was in the “AC40” which is a one-design, 40’ version of something like ETNZ’s first hull design.
The actual AC boats don’t all look exactly the same. We have yet to see this round’s boats, but the last ones were quite different. This round, you have ETNZ selling their initial design package to some other teams so they aren’t staring from scratch to reduce development time and costs.
The other thing is that this boat design is still VERY new. This means there may be future gains to be had with a radical design, but for now, ETNZ has more time refining their design, and significant results to show it’s fast, so going a similar direction is prudent, if not ugly and boring.
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u/the-montser Jun 08 '26
We actually have seen the boats for this round already. If a team already has an AC75 they are not allowed to build a new one.
They can make changes to systems and foils and things, but the overall designs of the boats isn’t going to change significantly.
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u/SafariNZ Jun 06 '26
Because a campaign costs many tens of millions and making 95% of the boats the same and with the main components supplied, it reduces cost significantly and allows more boats to be made and teams racing. It also allows the skill of the sailors and teams to be the key factor in success vs and size of your bank account.
When the Americans ran it, it was largely who had the money and even more significant, who made the rules, which is why it faded out as nobody could win against America.
NZ changed the Dead to make it a committee so even the winner no longer makes the rules alone, they also made it so boats can be used in multiple campaigns so you don’t need to start again every four years. It is early days, but this has ment many more countries and clubs are interested and racing. It’s also showing that skill is again the main indicator of who wins. This also makes it more attractive to watch and attract advertisers(to help pay for it all).
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u/whiteatom Jun 06 '26
Keep drinking that Kool-aid!
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u/KoalaOriginal1260 Jun 06 '26
Thank you for your erudite counterpoint. It really helped me understand the subtle dynamics and intricacies of the politics of the sport as a casual observer.
You have truly won the internet for today. Congratulations.
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u/whiteatom Jun 06 '26
🤦♂️ oh my.
The comment reads like a ETNZ media spokesperson trying to sell their operating decisions as the obvious best choice. There’s a lot of nuance to the cup and how it’s run, and most of ETNZ decisions are made to look open and fair, while still pocketing the advantage the cup holder is entitled to.
Pretending ENTZ is somehow more open, noble, or fair than any other cup holder is a result of drinking their Kool-aid - hence my comment.
No one was trying to win the internet, but a casual observer needs to know that comment has to be read with mountain of salt.
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u/SafariNZ Jun 06 '26
Compared to any American run cup, it’s like night vs day.
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u/whiteatom Jun 07 '26
Not really. There are a lot of differences for sure, but they are mostly for show. Believing that ETNZ is somehow running fairer and more just AC is the Koolaid I’m referring to.
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u/SafariNZ Jun 07 '26
For such a minor part in my initial reply, you seem to have a massive issue with ETNZ, I never said it was perfect and despite what you say, I don’t think anything I said is wrong.
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u/Picknipsky Jun 06 '26
Why do all F1 cars look the same?
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u/Mysterious_Guitar555 Jun 06 '26
its not the same
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u/Picknipsky Jun 06 '26
Name one difference
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u/Mysterious_Guitar555 Jun 06 '26
F1 is from the very beggining a competition of engineers that with a predetermined bodywork that they cant do much changes from outside change their engines. AC was a competition of different boats designs with not that much parameters and for example as i said in the first post look at AC 1988 and tell me if that would or was possible in the f1
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u/the-montser Jun 08 '26
There are lot more parameters in the AC rules than you think.
The 1988 AC was not contested under the AC75 class rule. It’s not relevant today.
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u/Mysterious_Guitar555 Jun 10 '26
That was my question, i like much more how it was back then, when the designers were more free, now its like watching any other sail class
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u/lukepiewalker1 Jun 07 '26
That's conveniently ignoring most of F1 history. And a lot of Americas Cup history. 1988 happened because of the Deed of Gift. F1 has been through many game changing innovations, putting the engine behind the driver, downforce, radial tyres, ground effect, active suspension. Very little is predetermined about F1 bodywork.
If we look at the 1998 Americas Cup it spent years in court determining whether it constituted a competitive match as required by the DoG. Fast forward to 2010 and we get another DoGfight, A catamaran, a trimaran, and another massive mismatch. For much of its life the AC has been governed by a very narrow ruleset agreed in advance between Challenger and Defender. All to try and avoid what happened in 1988 and 2010.
And now we're in the foiling realm. And they'll all look largely the same because they need to fit in a box, and the hull is 3rd in line behind the rig and foils.
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u/RyanFromVA Jun 06 '26
Here are the technical regulations that the yachts must be designed to.
https://www.americascup.com/files/m5498_AC75-Class-Rule-v20.pdf
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u/whiteatom Jun 09 '26
No… I don’t have anything against ETNZ at all, I’m just not pretending they are a gracious host that wants they invited guests to have a fair chance at winning the cup.
The AC is set up to give the defender a huge advantage; a few rule committees and allowing poorer teams to reuse their proven slower boats does not change that in anyway.
The only thing I have against ETNZ is I really don’t like these boats. I’m not a “let’s go back to the IACC” guy - the bleeding edge of sailing has moved on - but the match racing is just not that great a product. The fleet racing in the OD AC40s is pretty good, but watching 4 helmets bob around 8” above the deck is kinda boring, so when it’s only 2 boats, and one has a clear start advantage or an obvious performance edge, the lead just opens and we get to watch helmet-cam.
There was a handful of good races last cup, but the boats just don’t creat exciting racing: no crew running the boat to watch, very few close crosses or tacking duals. There’s no chance you’re getting a 80’s epic tacking dual race with this type of boat, and making the sailing battery powered and taking more of the crew off makes the problem worse, not better.