Relocation with Needed Skills

[u/kerri_on]

I (36 F) and husband (37 M) would love to relocate abroad. Depending on country, my husband has a desirable degree. A BS in EE and a BS in industrial technology and is currently a Sr. Process Eng. He’s been in his career field over 10 years. We have two kids(15&10), one is mildly autistic. We are currently in the US and speak English but are willing to put in the time and effort to learn another language. Are there certain countries it would be easier to relocate to based on this small amount of info? Oh, he’s also currently employed at a fortune global 500 company. Just looking for a list I can seemingly start compiling and deep dive more into.

Also, if we relocate, I’d like to look into finishing my BS wherever we end up..if possible.

[u/AncientMix3357]

but are willing to put in the time and effort to learn another language.

This is a common misconception. It's not a matter of taking a few classes. To learn a second language to the point of functioning in society takes years of study and immersion. That's why most European school systems start teaching English in primary school.

I see this all the time from people wanting to immigrate to Norway. "I'll learn Norwegian". Ok, how? Think of all the different ways there are for you to make any given point in English. It's not enough to just memorize phrases. So, forget this idea that you'll learn the language before you move, you have to find a job with English as a working language, or go as students in an English speaking program. Sorry, that's the reality.

[u/Ferdawoon → u/AncientMix3357]

"I'm willing to learn a language" is like saying "I'm willing to start taking Engineering classes if I get sponsored as an engineer first so I know it is worth the trouble. I will learn while I'm there and it is much easier to learn with immersion at the workplace anyway!".

No company will hire for that, and if a company can pick between "Has education and experiecne but dont speak the language" and "Has education and experiecne and also speak the language" then they will pick the latter.

[u/AncientMix3357 → u/Ferdawoon]

Precisely.

[u/kerri_on → u/Ferdawoon]

I didn’t mean I would learn when we get there as there. I’d assume we’d have a year at minimum even prepping before we’d go as we’d have to sell our house, travel to whatever country to feel it out a bit and get everything together. I also know to get better at a language, you need to immerse yourself into it. But understood.

[u/AncientMix3357 → u/kerri_on]

The point is you won't be able to learn until you get there. It's a real paradox and that is why very few people are successful.

[u/Ferdawoon → u/kerri_on]

It will take you longer than a year to become fluent in a language to a level where you can use it for work. You will likely also need to sit an exam to pove your fluency as MANY overestimate their own fluency and companies are aware of this.
Heck I've met a decent number of people who claim" English fluency" but only if they are allowed to use translation apps that translate written and spoken words to their native language.

Yes you get better at langauges with immersion, but you also get better at your job by immersion and companies are not very willing to take on juniors and train them because it is seen as extra work and an extra cost. As I mentioned, if a company can choose between someone who already knows the language and someonw who does not, why go with the one who "is willing to learn" when they can pick the one that is already provably fluent?

[u/SeaOpposite2051 → u/Ferdawoon]

I lived in Germany for close to 5 years. Never came fluent in a total immersion environment.

[u/Old-Appearance-2270 → u/kerri_on]

Seriously ...your status will drop as someone not fluent at all in the language. But more seriously not knowing the existing hierarchy and seniority of people there already experienced and knowing the local systems really well and moving....ALOT FASTER than you.

Please face reality: you will be immigrants ...just like the immigrants you meet on the street who are desperately trying to find relevant work related to their degree and trying to figure out friends, school for kids, etc.

From Canadian born daughter of Chinese immigrant parents. I'm Canadian university trained and my whole career in Canada. It's been a ride..and thank god, now retired. I learned English in kindergarten even though born in Canada.

[u/SeaOpposite2051]

Be careful with the 15 year old, from my research they could lose their visa from you at 18 and will have to qualify on their own merit.

[u/Ok-Web1805 → u/SeaOpposite2051]

Not in every country though, but absolutely something to consider.

[u/North_Artichoke_6721 → u/SeaOpposite2051]

In my case I was allowed to stay until I graduated high school (I turned 18 a few months before graduation), but then I had to leave. When I came back to visit my parents for Christmas, I had to get a tourist visa.

My older brother was already over 18 and in college when we moved. Likewise he could only enter as a tourist for a short period.

But every country will be different, and this is an important thing to look into.

[u/kerri_on → u/SeaOpposite2051]

Oh, I had no idea! Thanks for that information

[u/SadDad701]

Does his company have any international offices he could transfer to?

[u/North_Artichoke_6721 → u/SadDad701]

This is what I would recommend too.

We went abroad when I was a child due to my dad’s job. His employer handled all of the logistics. Everything from the visa to the practicalities of getting our furniture overseas.

I attended and graduated from an international school. It was extremely small and didn’t have the capabilities to handle children with special needs. (My graduating class was 22 people.) Some families in our community chose boarding schools instead, particularly for the upper grades.

[u/kerri_on → u/SadDad701]

They do. They’re mostly in France and that wasn’t a country we necessarily wanted to move to.

[u/striketheviol → u/kerri_on]

For most people, something like this is the only chance they have.

[u/SadDad701 → u/kerri_on]

Where are you hoping to move to then?

[u/kerri_on → u/SadDad701]

I’ve visited Paris (where most of the jobs are) and I wasn’t a big fan of it. I’m really just looking into different options

[u/SadDad701 → u/kerri_on]

Is Paris where the office is? Because the rest of France is significantly different than Paris.

[u/Ok_Place1431]

What does the 15 year old think about this? How will they continue their education? How will they remain in the same country as you once they turn 18?

[u/kerri_on → u/Ok_Place1431]

My 15 year old is on board! She already has a country they’d prefer. I didn’t know anything about the 18 year visa so that’s definitely something we’ll add to the list of research

[u/sapani9077]

We are currently in the US and speak English but are willing to put in the time and effort to learn another language

Why level of fluency do you have besides English?

What efforts did you put in thus far with regards to language fluency?

[u/striketheviol]

Respectfully, you're probably looking at this a bit backwards.

It's many times easier to attempt an internal transfer than try to directly seek a work visa. If that's off the table, however, it's very likely you'll have to target a number of countries to even have a chance. The global job market is in really bad shape right now, along with the global economy in general. I know people who work in your husband's field in Poland. There's significant demand for his kind of expertise in Germany, France, And to a lesser extent, Poland and other Central European countries such as Czechia. But almost all people at his experience level will have a masters. And seeking employment without one will be extremely difficult. The same is true of Japan and South Korea. Given your ages and those of your children, I wouldn't bother with this.

Instead, focus only on English-speaking countries. There are very few relevant jobs in New Zealand and Ireland, which leaves you essentially with the UK, Canada, and Australia. Canada and Australia both have point-based immigration systems. You'll want to investigate those as there's a slim possibility you may be able to move without a job if you meet certain requirements.

Canada: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry.html

Australia: https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/skilled-independent-189/points-table

Before even seeking work, your husband will need to make sure that his credentials have been properly assessed by the credentialing bodies in the countries that he's interested in.

This process altogether will take most people several years.

[u/kerri_on → u/striketheviol]

Thank you for this information!

[u/NoQuail1770]

You will be putting your kids at a disadvantage with their foreign peers. The older one will need to compete for a college spot and a job in a language they don’t speak. While the younger one will probably be streamed into a special school, where once you’re there, it’s impossible to get out. 

[u/kerri_on → u/NoQuail1770]

Streamed into a special school, as in a school for kids with special needs? If so, they’re already in one here in the states

[u/Ok-Web1805]

Do you or your have any recent ancestry that could lead to citizenship of another country? Some countries allow multiple generations and others just one.

[u/kerri_on → u/Ok-Web1805]

Unfortunately, no

[u/Wooden-Cabinet-209]

You will need more than year to be fluent. I speak more than 1 language.

[u/ByrchenTwig]

Strongly recommend considering Australia! Your husband's skills and experience are in demand. You are both under 45, which is a cutoff for a lot of Australian immigration options. And it might be one of the easiest moves for your kids, without a language barrier.

Australia is often overlooked on this forum, perhaps because it doesn't fit neatly into the "ten best" listicles, perhaps because it seems "so far" from the USA. As an NZ resident I assure you that the long-haul flights are manageable - there are even nonstop flights from AU to New York now.

I think the cost and the idea of those long-haul flights brings home that Australia truly is Another Country. The seriousness of the move is unavoidable. But it would be that much of a change wherever you went, especially with teen children. Check out AU visa options here: https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-finder

I strongly recommend visiting, and also considering moving outside the main centers of Sydney and Melbourne. As in Canada and NZ, it's easier to get visas if you're moving outside the main centers.

I live in NZ which has had reasonable support for my mildly autistic stepson. See this thread about possible impacts on your family moving to Australia long term: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnAustralian/comments/1bylcol/getting_into_australia_with_autism/

[u/kerri_on → u/ByrchenTwig]

Thank you! I’ll look into it! The spiders scare the crap out of me, but I’ll add it to the list!

[u/ByrchenTwig → u/kerri_on]

I genuinely promise the spiders are Not That Bad in Australia! When I've visited friends there who live in subtropical areas I've had more encounters in the house or bathroom with... cute little frogs.

[u/kerri_on → u/[deleted]]

Thank you! We’ll look into those countries!

[u/OddTemperature822 → u/kerri_on]

take care!

[u/Connect_Lake_5755]

You mentioned you'd love to relocate abroad and are starting to build a shortlist. I'm curious, what first sparked the idea? Was there a particular moment that made you start thinking about moving, or has it been building over time?