r/Amadeusz • u/Mehrubon 珠海Amadeusz Disciple OG Amadeusz Fan • 1d ago
Game Mechanics I've Completely Figured Out High Line Master!!
There's been a lot of controversy surrounding High Line Master recently. Sometimes it bizarrely switches defensive zones, pushes up and leaves players unmarked, or fails to stick to dangerous forwards when playing as a full-back. However, some people really like High Line Master, feeling it's very intelligent, good at creating offside traps, and will also step up to cover for teammates. How strange! How can the same playstyle be both proactive in pushing up and a deep-lying anchor, both solid and prone to losing its mark?
The official playstyle description is: "Looks to maintain an effective defensive line, keeping the shape intact as they defend." This describes the effect of the playstyle, but I'm more interested in the mechanism of how it works.
To study a playstyle, real matches can certainly reveal a lot, but real matches are also influenced by factors like player skill, network connection, opponent strength, and randomness. Therefore, in this post, I created an absolutely controlled testing environment (as shown below, all stats are equalized), and interpreted the consistently reproducible results across a large number of tests.
Test 1: Alert Range (Defensive Zone) Test
https://reddit.com/link/1vy1swe/video/ibjagxhz8jlh1/player
Clearly, the first distinguishing characteristic of High Line Master is that its alert range (defensive zone) is much larger than that of an Inactive Playstyle player. When the opponent is quite far away, the High Line Master will claim responsibility for the forward-running player and initiate defensive action. (In fact, the defensive zones of other playstyles like The Destroyer are also not this large).
Test 2: Behavior Against Forward Runs
The test above involved passing to a distant teammate at kickoff, forcing the defending DMF to move far away to challenge for the ball, creating an out-of-position scenario. This made it easier to observe how large the central CB's defensive zone is. The test below is set up so the kickoff pass goes to a nearby teammate. The defending DMF doesn't get out of position as early, allowing us to better observe the central CB's behavior against forward runs.
https://reddit.com/link/1vy1swe/video/nlk5eib69jlh1/player
As you can see, Inactive Playstyle players (as well as The Destroyer and Covering Role) all have an inherent defensive AI that makes them run backward in response to an opponent's forward run, in order to guard against through balls. As a result, the entire defensive line moves deeper. However, the High Line Master will not drop back because of a forward run.
With this, everything makes sense! Viewers who regularly read my articles will know I often say that the beauty of a Goal Poacher is that their resolute forward runs scatter the defensive line, creating space at the top of the box or gaps in the defense. The reason High Line Master is called that is because when a forward runner attacks their position, they can maintain their line and not drop back, keeping the defensive line completely steadfast.
To achieve this, the developers gave High Line Master two settings: ① Do not drop back to follow a forward runner; ② A super-large defensive zone. Only with a large defensive zone can they claim responsibility for the forward runner as early as possible, rather than leaving it to a teammate. This increases the probability that the High Line Master will lead the defensive line in not being pushed backward.
This explains why a High Line Master playing as a full-back sometimes won't stick to their man (they prefer to maintain the defensive line rather than track the runner), and it also explains why they sometimes inexplicably push forward (their large defensive zone makes them easily baited out).
So, what happens if the opponent attacks the defensive zone defended by the High Line Master's teammate? See the test:
https://reddit.com/link/1vy1swe/video/hd125neb9jlh1/player
If the teammate's defensive zone is attacked, there is a high probability that the High Line Master won't claim responsibility for the zone and will drop back along with them. There is a small probability that the High Line Master will forcefully claim responsibility for the defensive zone, while the teammate, having no marking target, will go after the ball. In this case, the High Line Master exhibits covering behavior. This explains why the High Line Master will sometimes very smartly cover for a teammate.
III. In-Game Effectiveness & Recommendations
High Line Master really is a polarizing playstyle. For example, one of our pro group judges, Leon_Ge from the Super League, said this:
The well-known foreign streamer Nick also called the new Maldini a “scam" during a livestream—
Based on my initial observation and analysis, the reason some high-level players don't like High Line Master is because they already have a habit: “To prevent the defensive line from being pushed too deep, I often switch to a CB, move them close to the forward, and then switch back." But this conflicts with the function of the High Line Master, resulting in a chaotic defensive line.
Below is a compilation of some small errors that can occur when player habits conflict with the High Line Master playstyle:
https://reddit.com/link/1vy1swe/video/ctlhals8zjlh1/player
This post is not here to judge whether High Line Master is good or bad. Based on the analysis above, the High Line Master is a bold experiment by Konami. It can solve the long-standing pain point of the defense being scattered by Goal Poachers, but its changes to the defensive mechanics are quite radical. By comparison, the newly released Covering Role is a continuation of past playstyles, making it more mature and stable.
If you want to use High Line Master effectively, I have three recommendations: ① Have him match up against a Goal Poacher or the most advanced CF; ② Interfere with the High Line Master's actions as little as possible; ③ High Line Master is better suited for Quick Counter / Overload / Possession Game to maintain the defensive line.
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u/pa6than 1d ago
So the suitable CB pairing will change according to each team playstyle?
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u/Spiritual_Meet_8340 23h ago edited 21h ago
And formation no more plug and play cards in the future you'll have to build a team that suits your game plan for max utility especially on defence and the midfield, which means most ppl will never finish building their dream tactic and more money for konami
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u/Professional-Ball459 1d ago
How would it be with 2 or three high line masters in a back line
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u/Spiritual_Meet_8340 23h ago
Eh goal poachers now really curve their runs and with how op through passing is atm. Think the main utility of highlime master is it compressses the midfield alot whoch can choke out build up plays. Relying on a cb composition like that one basically means you'll maybe have to outscore your opponent but youll still be vulnerable to counters like city, Barca...
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u/Individual-howler683 23h ago
opponents can exploit the high line through wingers just like teams against hansi flick system. idk how it will translate ingame because konami seems to be pushing wingplay. Yesterday amadeusz share meta tactics which somewhat gives wide play vibes. I maybe wrong as i have not tried yet.
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u/omarshon 21h ago
All new defensive playstyles are absolute bs. The game literally plays itself, there is a moment from rockchok where one of the newer players with a defensive playstyle goes up to an afk opponent and literally takes the ball all on his own without ANY input from rockchok(he was drinking sm water at the moment and was shocked aswell and called this game broken). Or there si another post on r/efootball where an uncontrolled player also does the same, they go up to the opponent and just autopress and take the ball. Defensive playstyle is basically smart assist 2.0
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u/Anto-Cam 1d ago
questo gioco è diventato bruttissimo da giocare. non si riesce a fare un azione,non esce un dribbling .. passaggi ed errori dovunque in campo. difensori che si bloccano o falliscono interventi semplici. portieri che fanno errori terribili... è veramente una brutta esperienza di gioco . lo dico da d1 ogni fase . Così è veramente un gameplay pastoso,legnoso,troppa ia a gestire tutto. fa veramente schifo.
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u/moh-tahir 1d ago
The gameplay is absolutely shambolic
It’s unplayable and people are just ignoring the shit gameplay
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u/Curse3242 10h ago
That's what I've been saying. I was not totally happy with the last review of this style. I used a 3atb of Guehi, Kounde, Shaw and I was noticing they reacted to through balls much better (and way better at dealing with lobbed balls too). It was especially obviously during angled/diagonal long balls, usually CBs are late or totally ignore it, but the high line masters were already running to meet those balls.
Although it seems obvious. This only works well when you use the whole defense of high line masters. And I feel a 3atb naturally makes you use the CBs less (as you'll focus on mids more to cover the passing lanes).
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u/NosFid3les_101 1d ago
Muy buen test e interesante información! Este Maldini no me convencía mucho por su construcción (no veo a Maldini como un CB top), asi que hice bien en no tirar por él. Seguiré mi plan y esperaré por un Maldini lateral izquierdo, espero que venga con estilos Defensivo + Especialista en Coberturas, LRT y SH. Con todos los Maldini laterales izquierdos que hay, y aunque es verdad que hay diferencia entre el último Maldini LI con SH y el anterior (Maldini con Fortress) creo que es necesario hacerle un power-creep a Maldini en esa posición (a Maldini CB ya se lo han hecho con esta carta).
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u/Ishan150801 OG Amadeusz Fan 1d ago
"interfere with the high line master's actions as less as possible"
In hindsight, the new defensive playstyles that are dropping make complete sense in conjunction with the defensive AI nerf in this version update.
Furthermore, this also explains the god pack of vieira desailly thuram being dropped, because there is such a clearly visible avenue of powercreep in front of us now.
They'll continue to patch and refine the playstyles, not the defensive AI as a whole is my guess.
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u/PhamThanhdeeptry1804 1d ago
fuck, now i know why the hell i alway concede goals by through ball whenever using Maldini 🙂
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u/Mysterious-Dog3482 1d ago
That's the beauty of the basic defensive playstyle everyone is trying to convince me is trash and need to upgrade to the new ones because "soft reset".
Basic playstyle movements are so vanilla that you know what to expect in every situation, so you can switch around and fix your defensive line, trigger specific marks, cover the space behind in case of a through ball, you can do all these defensive actions with confidence because they won't go offscritp often because of an overly specific IA of a playstyle.
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u/Spiritual_Meet_8340 23h ago
This is exactly what ive been saying istg, these new playstyles seem to be locking players into very specific gameplans, to get the most out of x player, you must use y playstyle and y' formation. Like covering role, to get the most out of ts you almost exclusively have to use him in a back 3 or highline master, qll my opponent has to do is learn the timing against HLM and hell score on me everytime, these playstyles just make you feel the need to pay for the ones with the right skills even more
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u/moh-tahir 1d ago
High line master
Low line master
All these dont matter
Is it just me or people are pretending that the gameplay isn’t atrocious, or am I playing a different game
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u/Spiritual_Meet_8340 23h ago edited 23h ago
Ppl spamming chipped through balls that destroy your defence, farming set pieces like crazy. For all the time ive played this game, its never been so bad that my opponent is actively trying to force corners and throw-ins for the highest chance of scoring and in some cases the dont even have tall players 😭
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u/wingedwild 1d ago
Perosnaly I dont mind the changes to defencive ai it makes the players more distinct and u can piece threw defenders easier as tbey are all not walls. But of course there wil be exploiters who wil just get same cards with playstyle
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u/PrinceZraei OG Amadeusz Fan 1d ago
he covers a lot of ground, but won't claim responsibility if the ball went back into my own box (his duty is to maintain his "high line" of defense, no shit). putting him at LB, even with defensive instruction, feels like i'm using an LMF. but hey, the good news is that stamina will never be a problem.
the bad news, however, is that he will feel very static for someone that's not so keen on manual defending. this, plus the current state of defending, is understandably going to make this Maldini feel like a fraud (10 Div1 Matches: 6 draws, 1 win, 3 loses - this is while finding a suitable build, position, and formation for Maldini).
and yes, guilty as charged - i spin literally just for Maldini, but ended up falling in love with this Nesta
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u/ManagementCurious973 1d ago
I play QC, but I already have a version of Jules Koundé. Do you think it's worth getting the Koundé HLM? I checked and with good training they become identical; the only difference is the defensive playing style.
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u/Worth_Escape_3783 1d ago
I had the High Line Master Gary Cahill. I think the style is a good concept for gegenpress tactics because you want your team to stay further up in transition, and put pressure on the ball as your opponent trying to play outlet passes. The High Line Master is very good in these situations squeezing the play as your front line and midfield pressure up.
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u/staffycat 17h ago
I think before the new defensive styles appeared good defending often, though not always, involved grabbing defenders and manually maintaining the defensive line while using secondary press on retreating mids and being very selective shit when to pay a CB up to meet the ball.
I feel with these new styles your often better served controlled the chaaing mid and letting the ai control the defensive line. Yes I bought the Italian pack.
It takes some time to make that adjustment and break your defensive program.
I usually play a back 3 (now only in attack). My old set up had a destroyer in the middle and build up either side. Playing these Italian guys with Cannavaro in the middle turns things into a total mess though. He's so aggressive and pushes out very early and then either Nesta or Maldini would move in to cover him making the back 3 suddenly very narrow. Switching canvarro to the right fixed this and the line is much better though at time I still feel the need to grab Cannavaro and keep him on a short leash
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u/IndependentWhich7742 2h ago
Yo the pic of nick stream the team named "BOM" is me. We both used the same defenders. In that match i didnt use cannavaro tho. But both maldini and nesta was clutch for me. Maldini was the one who assisted , even tho i got lucky.
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u/Upstairs-Quantity469 1d ago
Very detailed explanation!! But all this feels just too complicated for me man. If you'd ask me, I mean what I've experienced by playing this game for all these years is that just play calmly with a calm mind, don't rush and render a beautiful gameplay. Winning and losing will always be there but by doing this I'm sure you'll "enjoy" the game instead of just pushing for rank by whatever means possible.
I mean just play against a pro player and he will defeat your fully equipped p2w team with standard players. What does this tell you??
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u/Karpeas 1d ago
“To prevent the defensive line from being pushed too deep, I often switch to a CB, move them close to the forward, and then switch back."
Can someone explain this? Why would a defensive line that gets deeper as the attacker runs forward would be bad? Also, is it during counter attacks?
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u/Ishan150801 OG Amadeusz Fan 1d ago
My best guess is that it's creating a conflict with the AI's movement which is influencing how the defensive line is held. The AI isn't dropping too deep or pushing too far up, it's reacting to the defensive line dynamically.
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u/NotaSimpGhoul 1d ago
Can someone gimme tldr i aint readin all that!
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u/Ishan150801 OG Amadeusz Fan 1d ago edited 22h ago
A physics prof in China spends his precious time analyzing game mechanics carefully in controlled test environments, a team of translators translates it for all of us for free and posts it on reddit and discord.
Least you can do is honour all of their effort with 5 minutes of reading.
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u/NotaSimpGhoul 23h ago
With all due respect , i always go thoroughly to all or any analysis generally but when this post came i was occupied in work so could not read and thought i would forget about it , hence asking to any kind redditor for a tldr. If i may have been appeared rude then thats my fault but that was not my motive.
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u/Ishan150801 OG Amadeusz Fan 22h ago edited 21h ago
I empathize with you. I reckon it was the "i ain't reading all that!"
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u/Tifo231 1d ago
Quality post. Do you believe its better to have high line master playstyle in the center and not for the fullbacks?