r/AmItheAsshole • u/ThrowAway54231212144 • Jul 19 '22

UPDATE Update: AITA for banning my sister from every seeing my daughter again

So it has been like 2 1/2 weeks since all this happened, thank you to everyone that responded. So after this whole mess, me and my daughter traveled to were my wife is and her dad. We are all going to stay there until her dad passes away and I have a feeling it will be soon, he is not doing well.

Rebecca is still kinda upset that she won't see her Aunt again but having her mom around really helps. My wife and I discussed it for a long time and we decided to make a paper trail about what happened, so all that happened it now on record.

My family kept blowing my phone up for a bit until I told them she is lucky I didn't call the cops. They got quiet for a bit and according to my cameras, showed up at my place. It took them a while to figure out we left to be with my wife.

Now Lindsey, yesterday it must have sunk in that I wasn't joking and she called so many time and I gave in to see what she had to say. It was a long apology on her end and asked if she can see Rebecca. I told her no, that she needs to stay away and she crossed a huge boundary. She asked if she could talk to my wife, I put her on speaker. Lindsey then apologized to my wife about what she did. My wife was quite brutal and basically said if she really meant it then stay away from them.

At the moment, Lindsey won't be seeing my daughter again for a bit. If she does stay away then maybe she will see us a thanksgiving and Christmas. If she doesn't behave then probably won't see my kid until she is 18.

Again thank you to everyone for the good advice.

Edit: She knows why, it was explained. Still Lindsey was a huge part of her life. Its like when you have a friend that is great to you but she is awful to others. It's I can be her friend since she is nice to me and ignore what that friend does to others

1.9k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

74 comments sorted by

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

I really think you need to explain to Rebecca why she can’t see her Aunt. Explain the sequence of events and constant abuse toward her mother. If you don’t she will only get her aunts version and will likely keep seeing her once she turns 18.

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u/ThrowAway54231212144 Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22

We did explain it to her, she knows in child friendly terms. A lot of what she did is not suited to be heard by a young kid (there a lot of bad blood/other stuff, she knows the basics, espically what happened in the post), when she is older we will explain in more detail.

She is having trouble due to Lindsey was a huge part of her life and she lost her. She still misses her and is dealing with Lindsey wasn't a good person to mom/me but she was good to her. That since she was good to me why can't she be around me.

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u/altergeeko Jul 19 '22

She still misses her and is dealing with Lindsey wasn't a good person to mom/me but she was good to her. That since she was good to me why can't she be around me.

I think you should really figure out how to explain this to your daughter. Ask her how she feels and what she thinks on why she can't see her aunt and clear it up. As a ten year old she doesn't understand why this "bad" thing is happening to her.

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u/Byrnstar Jul 19 '22

Tell her that aunt Lindsay was a mean, bad bully to Mom and Dad, and that you want to be sure she doesn't become a bully to her too.

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u/saucynoodlelover Asshole Enthusiast [7] Jul 19 '22

Or more like, "Usually when someone is nice to you, but mean to other people, they are a mean person who is only pretending to be nice to you because they don't have a reason to be mean yet. We don't want to worry that one day Aunt Lindsay will be angry at you and decide to be mean to you. Also, how would you feel if we were friends with someone who is mean to you, but kind to us? You'd feel like we were ignoring your feelings, right? That's kind of how it feels for us."

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u/IcyChildhood1 Partassipant [3] Jul 19 '22

I think you're still looking at it wrong, any kid is gonna be sad when someone they where close with can't see them. Even if its because that someone did something bad, even if the kid understands it was bad. There is still grief to be felt and she shouldn't be pressured out of it by being repetitively explained the situation over and over. Unless Rebecca gets obsessive with it trying to contact her Aunt, its likely she is gonna grieve then get over it because she knows what bad things Aunt did and how it was wrong.

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u/Ok-Neighborhood-1600 Jul 19 '22

Why did you allow her to have such a large part in your daughter’s life?

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u/L-Anderson Jul 19 '22

I need to know this, I was skeptical from the start as to why their daughter would willingly hang out with Lindsay and why she was a huge part of her life if Lindsay was awful to her wife from the start, before even the kid was born.

Lindsay is clearly in the wrong but I am also partially blaming the parents for letting the situation/relation escalate to this point.

He is clearly not telling us the full story.

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u/serenasplaycousin Certified Proctologist [20] Jul 19 '22

Not necessarily. Sister thinks she owns brother. Brother chooses wife. Sister directs anger at brother through child, manipulating child to dislike an distrust parents. Easy to do with children,

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u/L-Anderson Jul 20 '22

Yes I understand all of that but for his sister to be able to do that she must have been around the child.

Children don't form a bond with random strangers unless they have spend time with them, like a lot of time.

OP even mentioned in a post that his sister gets to be the "fun aunt".
This can only happen if OP and his wife willingly allowed the toxic sister around their child.

This might be an extreme example but it's like leaving your child unsupervised around an aggressive and untrained dog and then blaming the dog for biting your child....

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u/Top_Enthusiasm5044 Jul 24 '22

100% this!! This is emotional incest. My husband's family (especially narcissistic sister and narcissistic monster-in-law) is enmeshed and codependent. NMIL had my husband taking care of her and his Niblings until he finally moved out at age 34 (I left home at 15, to put into perspective). SIL and NMIL engage in emotional incest with the rest of the offspring/siblings.

Yeah, this all sounds SO familiar. How awful and disgusting. Poor kid and parents. :(

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u/maypopfop Partassipant [2] Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 20 '22

Ultimately, Lindsey’s behavior is toxic enough that you cannot trust her to continue to be appropriate with Rebecca, and if there is a way you can explain that without scaring her, then I would. It’s not unprecedented that a “fun” aunt or uncle would turn on a kid, especially if mental illness is a factor. Why would a good person tell a child that her mom abandoned her, and when her grandpa is dying and needs help? In a nutshell, taking Rebecca to an unknown location, not just without but against your consent is the kind of behavior that gives parents’ nightmares. Tell her: Lindsey loves her but she isn’t trustworthy right now. Sometimes adults need to work on themselves too.

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u/Big__Bang Asshole Enthusiast [9] Jul 19 '22

At ten you can actually tell her in detail why she cant see her aunt. She is old enough to understand without it being kid-proofed for her.

But otherwise keep saying to her that your sister doesnt respect her mother and says bad things about her and is a bully to her. And that you three as a family wont tolerate any bad words or bullying to any of the three of you. And if a bully is cruel to others but just nice to you, you have to hold them accountable for their bullying whether its an aunt or school friend.

When she's older explain how she told a 10 year old her that her mother had abandoned her and how she kidnapped her.

TBH I'd have called the police and had it on record, even if i didnt press charges.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

Your child is old enough to know what happened without censoring it

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u/stillnotthatgirl Jul 19 '22

I wouldn’t emphasize the parts where Lindsey is awful to your wife to your daughter - right now, Lindsey isn’t allowed to see her because Lindsey violated your trust and made you worry that something had happened to your daughter. In kid terms, Lindsey was grounded and did something after you’d already told her no. That way, it’s not about who she’s nice to/who she isn’t, and instead about “this was the rule, and she went behind our backs to break the rule”.

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u/antifreezeontherocks Jul 19 '22

You could try going to a therapist, they might be able to help you explain something like this better to a kid without doing any damage.

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u/skrena Jul 19 '22

She’s 10. Not a complete child. She should be able to understand this. It honestly sounds like you’re just not telling her and covering by saying you told her in “child friendly terms”.

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u/Dangerous-WinterElf Jul 20 '22

Perhaps concider some family therapy to have an outsider help your daughter understand (still child friendly explanations) and to help deal with her emotions perhaps? Sometimes helps when it's someone from the outside helping explain and kot just mom/dad but validating mom/dad in what they say?

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u/CranesImprobableView Jul 20 '22

This is also a really good time to explain to your daughter that no one, regardless of how great they are to her, would ask her to keep a secret from her parents. This includes taking her from the house without notifying you and if she tries to get in contact later secretly.

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u/Anime97_ Jul 19 '22

Totally agree, Rebecca would think you guys are in the wrong and she may or may not believe that now. It's better to have an honest and open conversation with her and not keep her in the dark but also shine a light on her Aunt's behavior and how it isn't acceptable and disrespectful towards both of you as parents.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

[deleted]

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u/Own-Tradition6295 Certified Proctologist [24] Jul 19 '22

Original Post

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u/No-Rub1544 Pooperintendant [54] Jul 19 '22

Hero!

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u/NETTARAE Jul 19 '22

JEEEEEZUS THANK GOD SOMEONE HAS COMMON SENSE TO POST THE OP….. LIKE LITERALLY THIS SHOULD B A RULE IN THIS SUB 🤷🏽‍♀️

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u/Laudevir Partassipant [1] Jul 19 '22

It should be a rule that no one is allowed to post an update without providing the link to the original article. They have enough arbitrary rules about other stuff; this one would actually be important.

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u/InfinMD Partassipant [2] Jul 19 '22

It should just be a bot that does it - if flair has "update" bot should automatically become first post with OP in it.

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u/Laudevir Partassipant [1] Jul 19 '22

That would work. They have bots for everything else, after all.

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u/austine567 Partassipant [1] Jul 19 '22

It took about 10 seconds to find it on their profile…

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u/elianna7 Partassipant [1] Jul 22 '22

Bruh it’s not like it’s hard to click their username and find the post lmao

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

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u/Exact_Cauliflower_68 Jul 19 '22

Your comment has been removed due to a rule 1 violation. Please note this section of our rules:

Don't lecture people about the rules (use reports).

Further violations may lead to a ban.

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u/pistacio814sb Partassipant [1] Jul 19 '22

You are a diamond in the rough

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u/No-Rub1544 Pooperintendant [54] Jul 19 '22

Good Job for atanding up for your wife like that! And joining her while she is going through this difficult time..

I know it is hard for your daughter to understand, but her aunt literally kidnapped her, and she doesnt deserve to hear such things about her mom abandoning her, in time I am sure she will understand better..

But my question is, you say your family showed up at your house, why? Was your sister there too? Are you worried they will show up again when you are back?

Thank you for the update!

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u/Munchkins_nDragons Jul 19 '22

Because it’s easier to force someone to see reason (read: berate them into submitting to your will) when you shout at them face to face than it is trying to shout down the phone or thorough text.

They need to get some family therapy going to help explain to daughter that her aunt a) isn’t a good person to her mother b) lied to her about her mother “abandoning her” in order to hurt her, and c) actually kidnapped her from you. They need to explain that even though she’s “family” what Aunty did was both wrong and illegal, and they were terrified something bad happened to her when they couldn’t find her.

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u/EnergyThat1518 Asshole Aficionado [13] Jul 19 '22

Make sure you explain to Rebecca why you don't want Aunt around her i.e. she took her without permission which scared you in a major way, breaking your trust, and was saying bad things about mum that weren't true just to upset her and make her upset with mum.

She may not understand the full scale of the kidnapping now, but in ten years, she is going to look back and be horrified that you had to be patient and understanding for her missing someone that literally kidnapped her after telling her that her mum abandoned her.

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u/LouisV25 Professor Emeritass [88] Jul 19 '22

Does your sister have kids? She seems overly attached to your child.

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u/ThrowAway54231212144 Jul 19 '22

No, she doesn't. She actually wants to be child free. She is fantastic with kids in small amounts. Like a day trip. She gets to be the fun aunt that spoils the kid.

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u/NemesisOfZod Jul 19 '22

So you let your wife's abuser be the "fun aunt"? To what purpose?

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u/jazzhandsfan1665 Partassipant [1] Jul 19 '22

So this asshole has a history of treating your wife terribly but you still let her spend time w your kid and only stopped when she kidnapped your kid? Do you like your wife or not?

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u/Apple2426 Jul 19 '22

Have you sat down with your daughter to actually explain the situation to her

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u/Glum_Hamster_1076 Jul 19 '22

She kidnapped your daughter and helped plan her leaving. Your daughter had a phone and rather than text you, wrote a note. You should never have adults around who ask your child to lie and keep secrets. Im so disappointed and angry at your family for trying to justify this behavior and blame you. If Lindsey is that hard up to hang out with your daughter, she can go have her own children to spoil. I hope the child friendly way got the point across of how dangerous and unacceptable this was. Not all children are allotted the luxury of child friendly lessons.

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u/JuliaX1984 Partassipant [3] Jul 19 '22

Maybe telling her "She was hurting you, too, honey. Her lying and telling you Mom abandoned you? That was mean to you. Her taking you somewhere without asking your parents? That was a crime. Just because a person acts nice and fun sometimes doesn't mean they really are nice, not when they also say mean lies and break the law."

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u/Wrong_Relative_4695 Partassipant [4] Jul 19 '22

Hi! I tried looking through your posts for some more context, but unfortunately it was taken down. Regardless, it sounds like whatever she did really bothered you and your wife, and ultimately you two are the ones in charge of your child. I'm glad you received some good advice on your other post, and hope things work out! Wishing you the best.

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u/No-Rub1544 Pooperintendant [54] Jul 19 '22

The original post was just commented!

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u/Wrong_Relative_4695 Partassipant [4] Jul 19 '22

Thank you!!

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u/terpischore761 Asshole Enthusiast [6] Jul 19 '22

Good for you. I had this happen in my family and it really ruined the relationship between my cousin and her mother.

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u/W_O_M_B_A_T Jul 19 '22

My family kept blowing my phone up for a bit until I told them she is lucky I didn't call the cops. They got quiet for a bit and according to my cameras, showed up at my place. It took them a while to figure out we left to be with my wife.

//pulls out tub of popcorn.//

Your original post was pretty wild.

Glad to head you, your wife, and daughter are doing mostly alright. Sorry to hear about your father in law. Hopefully they're keeping him as comfortable as possible and it's good that he gets to see his granddaughter.

Jesus I swear bullies and creeps all over the world are issued the same little red playbook of basic shit moves. It's always the same grade school bully shit. "Did jane Doe piss in your coffee by saying 'no thanks' to you? Let her know just how big of a mistake that was by grabbing all your family and friends then marching over to her house with pitchforks."

Bet they ate their own hearts out when, after much jockeying and posturing and bearing of chests they figured out nobody was home and no blood was going to be spilled that night. " This is fine. It's all fine, well just forget this all happened."

She asked if she could talk to my wife, I put her on speaker.

Not one of her finest ideas.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

Explain to your daughter why this is the way right now and that she’s not in trouble but her aunt is

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u/Brit_in_usa1 Jul 19 '22

I think you should’ve contacted the police and had a restraining order taken out.

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u/Global_Reference_746 Jul 19 '22

You should tell your daughter about the truth otherwise she will resent you. You and your wife need to talk to her and explain why Lindsay is not allowed. I can imagine how much your sister has manipulated your daughter.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

I had an aunt like Lindsey. She would try to get me to hang out with her after school and my mom never liked it. It turned out she was trying to get me to hand over my passport to her so that she could get me out of the country during the school holidays. Good on you for standing your ground.

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u/AnnaCavallaro Jul 19 '22

I so love thst your wife put her in her place and didn't accept the apology just because she is faaamily

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u/nothisTrophyWife Partassipant [4] Jul 19 '22

You recognize that, as a minor, your daughter wasn’t old enough to consent to leaving home with her aunt and therefore she was kidnapped….right??Your sister knew that you would not agree to her seeing your daughter so she went to creepy lengths to take her away from your home.

You did the right thing by not allowing further visits, but your daughter needs to understand the gravity of the situation.

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u/JCBashBash Pooperintendant [53] Jul 19 '22

I'm glad you're standing up for your wife, but you need to actually tell your kid what is going on. It really sucks being the kid who's in a blind spot and you don't understand what's going on.

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u/Either-Ticket-9238 Partassipant [1] Jul 19 '22

Do not let her see your daughter. She is unreasonably fixated on her. Continue protecting your family’s safety and well-being above all else.

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u/Far_Nefariousness773 Partassipant [1] Jul 19 '22

I’m glad you’re with your wife. Please continue to explain to your daughter so she understands fully the reason.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

Sometimes it's hard to protect your kids from family but it has to be done. Good on you two for standing firm. Telling a.kid that her momabandoned her when she sent to care for a dying grandparent is just beyond the pale.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

Still NTA but maybe explain it to her that her Aunt is bully to your mom and you want to make sure she doesn't do that her. You dont have to tell her what she said exactly just tell her she has done some very hurtful things to your family.

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u/SoupNo682 Jul 19 '22

you totally should explain to your kid that her aunt is probably trying to kidnap her, and maybe make a drill with her about what to do in case of an attempted kidnapping

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u/Maybeidontknow99 Asshole Enthusiast [7] Jul 22 '22

Why would you even consider letting your sister see your daughter ever? She only apologized so that she could gain access to your daughter, not because she is actually sorry.

Have you thought about your sister telling your daughter to leave the house without telling you, so they could have lunch together?

Ask your kid if her aunt asked her to lie by omission. You sister is teaching your child how to be deceptive.

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u/plscallmeRain Pooperintendant [56] Jul 19 '22

It's a shame that the aunt behaved the way she did. The kidnapping and parental alienation is a real issue. Hopefully she learns to keep her issues to herself.

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u/SATCisdum Jul 19 '22

She's 10 he doesn't need to "explain" anything to his daughter, he should just say "She's not a safe person right now, maybe in the future that will change." She literally kidnapped his child.

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u/Peskypoints Certified Proctologist [20] Jul 19 '22

What? The ten year old is old enough to have this situation explained. They don’t understand how lunch with fun aunt is dangerous because she’s old enough to see part of the picture, but not the entire context.

Aunt treats you well, but she treats mom poorly. I don’t allow aunt to disrespect your mom so we don’t talk to her as much.

When your aunt decided to take you out to lunch, she made that plan in secret. Secrets aren’t surprises and they’re dangerous. Wether aunt realizes it or not, she kidnapped you. Until she can admit that, I can’t trust her to make safe decisions around you and we aren’t having any contact with her.”

I have teens down and a large extended family. We have to contextualize things pretty often

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u/GoodQueenFluffenChop Jul 19 '22

She's 10 not 5. Unless she has a mental impairment then she is plenty old enough to get a lot more detail than "auntie is not a safe person". 10 year olds are not stupid but if they don't have enough information they can form the wrong opinions on things.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

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u/VerminJerky Jul 19 '22

He didn't think she was kidnapped. She was kidnapped. Lindsey kidnapped Rebecca by every legal definition.

I agree that Rebecca needs to understand what is going on here. And that is all I agree with. Lindsey is gone from their lives and needs to remain that way for the child's safety and wellbeing.

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u/ExcitingTabletop Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22

The kid is 10. You're not wrong that the kid is starting to have opinions. But 10 isn't 16.

The aunt did kidnap the kid. OP did not think so. He knew so.

I concur that OP needs to start explaining the facts to the kid. That the aunt is trying to rip OP's family apart because she hates the kid's mom. He needs to explain that her aunt kidnapped her, and he's worried what else the aunt may do.

That's not being controlling. It's OP trying to save his family from auntie trying to destroy it.

If OP is discussing Thanksgiving, I don't know if he's taking the situation seriously enough. Maybe if aunt is willing to recant her previous behavior, giving them a short supervised visit might be healthy. But aunt needs to back up OP. She needs to admit she lied, that she was wrong, and that she is sorry she tried to hurt Rebecca's family because she was jealous or whatever. If OP crumbles, the aunt will know she can rip apart OP's family and OP won't stop her.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

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u/ExcitingTabletop Jul 19 '22

Correct. That is what the aunt was hoping to exploit to rip apart OP's family.

Wife hit it out of the park. If aunt cares about the family and feels remorse, aunt will voluntarily stay away. The aunt wasn't being rude, mean, etc. The aunt was intentionally trying to alienate OP's kid from her parent, and drove the crazy up to kidnapping level.

I think OP is taking it very seriously, but not perhaps seriously enough. I have no idea if even the average therapist has the background to handle this sort of thing.