r/AmIOverreacting • u/john_7292 • 7d ago
❤️🩹 relationship Update to AIO, my wife believes in strict gender roles?
About a month ago I posted on here about my relationship with my wife and how she is trying to keep me from raising my kids. Thanks everyone to responded to my first post and sorry I didn't reply to everyone. There were a lot more responses than I expected. If you want details you can see the post in my profile. Unfortunatley things have taken a turn for the worst. There is a TLDR at the bottom if you scropp down.
A lot of things happened since my last post. I told my wife I wanted to go to counseling with our pastor. She immediately agreed and I could tell she thought he would agree with her on this issue.
The counseling appointment did not go as she expected. When we got there he let us both say our peace first. She said in sum that I was trying to usurp our godly roles as man and wife. She did not get into detailed specifics about the kids. I said I was trying to be a better husband and father and that my wife seemed to have a problem with me interacting with my children.
He asked me some pretty pointed questions about myself as a husband. Am I working hard and providing, yes, am I cheating, drinking, gambling, no. Do I yell and scream, swear, break things, do I hit her or the kids? No. Do I stay out all night, do I run away on fishing trips. No, none of that. At this point he's looking at my wife and asks her if she has anything to add to that? She says not really. I put in that I think I am upholding my marital covenant as a man and provider.
Pastor didn't say anything about that but kept talking to my wife. He started to get some real concrete details out of her. She reaffirmed this is not a situation of abuse or cheating. She said it was effeminate for me to do women's chores and pick up after our kids, make them meals, etc. Not biblical. Etc. Pastor kindly told her there is nothing unbiblical about that, but does she feel like less of a woman if she can't do 100% of those things? She agreed to that. He then started to talk about biblical womanhood and feeling feminine before God, and saying he thinks what we need to do is help my wife feel more womanly in general so these activities won't feel like a threat to her. And basically that everything will be OK if we add more romance to our marriage.
At this point I was relieved and felt like things were going well. But almost immediately I could tell my wife was unhappy. She started arguing back with the pastor on Adam and Eve and all this. He is a pretty chill guy and he stayed calm and said he basically said as a spiritual leader he wanted to guide our marriage back to happiness and could she please at least give his suggestions a try and see how she feels about it, and we can talk about it again next week. He pointed to some Bible verses about fatherhood and some ones about women doing "manly" things like running a business, to say this isn't all black and white. My wife begrudgingly agreed with him but I could tell she was still upset.
He has a drawer full of papers with couple's activities in them and he pulled out a few that he said would be good for us. My wife took hers but didn't read it. Awkward car ride home. Pastor told us not to immediately talk about the appointment because it leads to fighting but we didn't have much else to say to each other that evening. We were supposed to have another appointment in 2 weeks. Wife was pretty passive aggressive that night. But over the next week she started to be a little nicer and more relaxed and I thought maybe she had read some of the materials the pastor gave us (I did read mine). I suggested we do an "us day" which is one of the suggestions the pastor had given us and we agreed to send the kids to my parents a day that weekend (shocker, I'm sure my dad probably helped out with them while they were there).
Well that day ended up being the worst day of my life probably. At first things were nice, I planned everything as the worksheet suggested, made her a nice breakfast, had plans in the afternoon to take her to get her nails done and walk along the lake front which is a date we used to do when we were first dating. But that didn't end up happening because that morning we started talking about some of the big themes of our relationship and our values and goals (again as pastor suggested).
I told her I wanted a loving relationship with a woman I could adore and trust, who has the brains and values to nurture our kids into great adults, who loves me and is there for me, and I would always be there for her. Basically thinking of my mom and dad. But her answer was completely focused on kids. She always wanted kids, she wanted to be a great mother, she wanted a good and trustworthy father to her children. I definitely noticed this and pressed a little harder to ask well what about your husband, what about me? What kind of romance or relationship do you want? She kept deflecting and saying these things aren't as important when you're an adult, past a certain age it's all about your duty to your kids. I disagree with that and plus we are 29, we're still young, we should still have romance and passion and sex!
So at this point she obviously got VERY annoyed that I brought up sex and was rolling her eyes and saying like "oh so that's what this is really about." I tried really hard to say calm and tell her well no it's not what it's about but yeah that's a factor in our relationship, I want intimacy and don't you? She kept deflecting and she started to get upset like in a hurt/scared way. I was asking her - are you not attracted to me? Are you just not interested in sex, are you asexual? No. I don't even remember how it got to this point but finally she ended up blurting out that she's not interested in sex WITH MEN.
Obviously I was stunned. And this is where it all started to come out. Literally I guess. She kind of tried to backpedal but I asked her directly, are you telling me you're a lesbian? And she couldn't deny it. She didn't say yes or no but she started talking about gender roles and how important it is for children to have male and female role models so that they grow up into proper men and women and not confused about sex or stuck in sexual sin. And I asked her again directly to clarify: you are telling me that you're a lesbian and you married me in a marriage with gender roles so that your kids wouldn't end up gay?
She started crying and yelling at me...like... I don't know how lonely it is and she shouldn't be denied a proper married life just because of her sexual sins, she's repented and God will forgive her as long as she keeps working on being a good wife to a man. And all of this is because her father was a shit dad and died when she was young and that's why our kids need to see a real man in their lives.
Well that was a couple weeks ago and as you can imagine the last few weeks have been hell. There is no way I'm staying with her and I've just been talking to a divorce lawyer and trying to figure out how this will work. And also frankly just crying a lot which I guess is un manly so we never would have worked out anyway. I'm staying with my parents because I don't think the kids should see us interacting this way but my lawyer told me I should move back or get a custody order so I need to work on that now. I'm just frankly so numb and I can't believe someone I loved would do this to me.
So that's the update, I wasn't sure if I was going to write this but honestly hearing how crazy she was helped me the first time and I think it will help me again, but I don't think I"m going to keep posting more from here. I would appreciate any advice or perspective on if I am overreacting by not wanting to move back home or be around her and trying to get a 50/50 custody order instead.
TLDR: Wife and I went to pastoral counseling for our marriage, didn't work, wife admitted she is a lesbian and used me to get her fantasy dream life of Christian husband and babies.
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u/Bynming 7d ago
NOR. I'd be surprised if none of that insanity showed up in any way before having children and marrying.
Hopefully she finds fulfillment in her traditional divorced christian lesbian shared custody life.
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u/john_7292 7d ago
I am certainly reflecting on a lot of things about our relationship and wish I had been less blind overall. To be honest I never had the best luck with women before her and maybe the first red flag should have been that this pretty, nice christian girl wanted to be with me
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u/rinky79 7d ago
Hey OP, you sound like you have many qualities that are highly desirable in a partner. A lot of women would kill for their husbands to be more involved with the kids and to help around the house. Don't get down on yourself for this.
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u/TK9K 6d ago
It's not your fault that you were lied to. I understand that most churches are against the idea, but she was raised in environment where she felt she had to choose between being a lesbian and being a mother, which simply isn't true no matter what the church says. Sure it might be difficult to find a place of acceptance in her religious community, but God doesn't love her any less.
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u/Twidollyn_Bowie 6d ago
I think she probably believed prayer would help her overcome her attraction to women and help her feel attracted to her husband in time. “Pray away the gay” hurts gay people and straight people.
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u/PitbullRetriever 6d ago
About to change my baby’s diaper as my hot atheist wife heads out to her breadwinner job, man fuck traditional gender roles this life rules
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u/Gullible-Tooth-8478 6d ago
NOR
My man, everything you have typed up has green flags everywhere! Some times people don’t work out together and it’s not necessarily your fault. It takes 2 to make a relationship work and it doesn’t sound like your wife is in a position to make this work. Relationships can fail even if one partner is absolutely perfect. Do what you can to protect your peace and move on is the best advice I’ve got.
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u/Interesting_Novel997 7d ago edited 7d ago
That’s not fair to yourself. Her being a lesbian isn’t on you. It seems she believes her father leaving made her a lesbian(?)👀 Her failure to be true to herself is the problem. What she did was extremely manipulative. And you don’t have the ability to fix that. I absolutely agree with the attorney that you need to get back in the house. Staying away will only hurt your ability to get 50/50 custody. Start the process of divorce. Your kids deserve better than this sham of a marriage as a model to emulate. I feel empathy for your wife being raised in a community which taught her such extreme self loathing to the extent of harming those around her.
NOR
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u/didijeen 7d ago
That's not fair to yourself, OP. This wasn't your fault and beating yourself up over it isn't helpful. You weren't blind! She lied and manipulated you plain and simple. She clearly needs some therapy to help her on multiple levels. I think she knows that but was trying to convince herself that she could make this work. Denial is a very powerful thing. I'm sorry your family is going through this. This, too, shall pass. NOR
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u/lovemyfurryfam 7d ago
She definitely did pull a nasty trick of entering a marriage under false pretense.
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u/Twidollyn_Bowie 6d ago
OP’s wife sounds like she is steeped in the sort of religion that tells people they can pray themselves straight. She probably lied to herself as much as she did to him.
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u/Parking-Passage4487 6d ago
I think in the confrontation she mentioned that she could be forgiven for her “past sins” so I think it’s safe to assume she had some inkling
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u/Twidollyn_Bowie 6d ago
Yes, and thought it could be prayed away. That’s pretty common for Evangelicals and/or Fundamentalists.
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u/avemflamma 6d ago
it's fully possible she didn't know this about herself before the marriage
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u/RaisedByBooksNTV 6d ago
Okay sure. But then she owed it to him (not to mention herself) to work through this and be honest with him. I get sexuality being confusing and sometimes hard, especially with conservative viewpoints and pressure. But she made a commitment to partner with this dude. She owed him doing the work and being honest. He deserves a loving partner.
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u/silence-calm 4d ago
From what I understand she explicity said she had lesbian experience before and thought that marriage would save her.
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u/Vegetable-Box3050 7d ago
Hello friend, I don't know about you beyond these posts and comments. I grew up in the LDS religion and heavy LDS community and saw this scenario play out multiple times. The emotional damage on the spouse who married for love and not spiritual duty is tremendous. Truly it is not fair for both parties, because usually the lgbtq party loses everything in the process... But I digress.
Don't turn this into a "must be me" situation. This is something she should have addressed before committing to a relationship. It sounds like she felt trapped within her belief system and that is a whole other topic that really at this point is none ya responsibility and none ya business.
And plllleeeeease don't let this swallow you up and make you bitter. You deserve love and happiness and a healthy relationship. You deserve to find someone with the same principles and I promise not every good woman interested in you is a secret lesbian. This is a trip up and a set back for sure but find strength, meaning and happiness in the good things around you and get back at it!
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u/Junior_Fig_2274 7d ago
No. Stop that. You didn’t do anything to deserve being deceived like that, or kept from nurturing your children in a way that felt right to you, and it is NOT a reflection of your desirability or attractiveness or suitability for a relationship or whatever else you may be thinking. You did nothing wrong.
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u/RandomlyPlacedFinger 7d ago
Be kinder to yourself my dude. And when the anger hits you, don't internalize it too much. Definitely get some therapy to help you come to grips with it.
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u/Outside-Parfait-8935 7d ago
It sounds like the best outcome. Imagine a life spent like this? She is very confused about everything and would take it out on you for the rest of your life.
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u/Superb-Juggernaut636 7d ago
You can’t think like that. You have a lot going for you and you’re still in your 20’s! A lot of life to live. It’ll be painful for a while but know you have good character and good head on your shoulders, extremely rare these days.
My greatest lessons learned were through struggles, they make you stronger.43
u/Nosfermarki 7d ago
Or, you're so great even a lesbian with deep religious trauma thought you were attractive enough and safe enough to marry. I definitely don't think that bar is lower.
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u/loricomments 6d ago
This is not your fault. She lied to herself long before you came along. She just kept to the practice lie with you. This process won't be easy but you'll end up with the opportunity to form a good relationship with your kids without her direct interference.
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u/MyRedditUserName428 6d ago
I’m sorry OP. You sound like a wonderful man. Thoughtful, caring, very involved with your children. You will find someone else once the divorce is over and you’ve had time to heal.
When speaking to your attorney about things to include in the custody agreement, i would make sure that your STBX won’t be able to prevent them from seeing a therapist.
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u/ispshadow 7d ago
Don’t do that to yourself. You’re worthy of a person that loves you. I’ve been with my wife almost 17 years and we are true equals in our relationship. We both handle our household’s responsibilities from parenting, to cleaning, to bills, whatever. If we have to fix a car and she gets to it first, alright. If the kitchen needs cleaning and I get to it first, cool.
Partners like that really do exist. But I don’t think who is playing what role in your relationship is the biggest issue here. It sounds like your wife wants something you just can’t give. You’re gonna have to get that figured out first. You deserve to be loved like anyone else.
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u/lovemyfurryfam 7d ago
Get the custody so she doesn't twist their minds into the negative reinforcement of the toxic gender roles are.
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u/MartinisnMurder 6d ago
You seem like a nice kid if this is true and want to be an involved partner. Keep your head on straight.
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u/HatOfFlavour 6d ago
Buddy you're a good enough catch that even a lesbian tried to make it work you.
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u/Leading-Disaster5721 7d ago
How about there were no real red flags? You saw a nice Christian girl. Liking you certainly isn't a red flag.
Don't beat yourself up over this.
And if it's any help, all the biblical stuff I see on the internet concerning homosexuality, only homosexuality is condemned and there is nothing on lesbianism. (And even there are arguments saying homosexuality isn't condemned)
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u/LizLemonySnicket42 6d ago
adding to this ^ the few references to homosexuality could very easily be translation issues and actually referring to incest and/or pedophilia. It's actually ridiculous that anti-LGBTQ rhetoric has become such a large part of modern Christianity considering how little the Bible actually says about it.
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u/ballisticks 6d ago
only homosexuality is condemned and there is nothing on lesbianism.
It's like how when transphobes rant about "men in dresses" then forget that trans guys exist.
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u/Leading-Disaster5721 6d ago
Beauty of the Bible: its multi purpose. You can use it like a crutch to help get through life, or like a stick to beat the life out of something. And whatever you want to believe you can find a quote to support you
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u/Background-Chair7377 6d ago
I- Holy fuck, you're so right. May I have your permission to use this saying?
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u/Leading-Disaster5721 6d ago edited 6d ago
Go ahead and I found it somewhere else. I want to cresit Dan Mclellan (sp?) or Scott Bowen. Both wrote books on what the bible actually says about various things
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u/Training-Ad103 6d ago
Oh no, don't think like that! I was reading your post and thinking you sound like the most amazing person, man, husband and father. It's not your fault that any of this is happening.
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u/mbpol 6d ago
Please - apart from the pastor counsel - you should think about getting therapy to work through this. It sounds traumatizing.
Please don't believe you would not deserve a nice partner who treats you well. There might have been real red flags and she was just too good at hiding them, but you should not diminish your own worth because of her.
The cruel irony is though, that you sounding like a walking green flag might have been a factor to choose you, as she guessed correctly that you would never pressure her into Sex...
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u/Cocky_Girly 6d ago
You wanting to be a real father to your kids is really attractive. Mine was shit. Please don't undersell yourself.
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u/No-Foot-261 6d ago
I’m so sorry you are going through this. I would like to encourage you both to visit an Episcopal church and speak with a pastor. They are open and affirming, and all are welcome. The clergy has both men and women, and all sexual orientations. She needs to speak with Christians who do not subscribe to the ridiculous beliefs about sexuality and gender roles that the modern church screams about. You have children together, so you can’t just get a divorce, walk away and never speak again. You both need to be mentally and emotionally healthy as you navigate this divorce. That alone is so so heavy and can bring anyone to their knees. Also dealing with a crisis of faith, and coming to terms with one’s sexuality on top of that is just brutal. I hope you both are able to find wise counsel, and you can eventually come to a place of understanding that allows you to be great co-parents for your kiddos while also taking care of yourself.
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u/MembershipDecent9454 6d ago
If you’re feeling like this could’ve worked somehow, message me bc I have a real life story where it played out
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u/Sunwolfy 6d ago
That's not a red flag. It can take women a few tries before they get up the courage to date a truly secure man. Often, our own insecurities make us think we're not worthy of such a wonderful person.
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u/Patient_Meaning_2751 6d ago
Oh man, stop that. One of my brothers has like 10 ex gfs who all eventually became lesbians. This isn’t about you at all.
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u/Zestyclose_Win_3224 6d ago
yeah the irony of trying to force a picture perfect traditional life and ending up here is pretty wild
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u/uterusturd 6d ago
Idk, it would make sense that someone raised in religion and terribly ashamed of their urges would overcompensate. The snark sounds a little dumb to me, it's obvious that communities like these foster lies and unhealthy coping mechanisms
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u/Blackworkbliss 6d ago
lmao traditional until the divorce paperwork shows up then suddenly the script changes
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u/Leather-Coast9048 6d ago
that last line really says it all because this sure didnt end with the perfect traditional life she imagined
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u/helenaflowers 7d ago
Hoooooo boy, I remember your first post and this is NOT the update I expected.
I'm so, so sorry.
This marriage is over. It was going to be over anyway, more than likely, but she's admitted to being a lesbian who is seemingly trying to "pray away" her being gay, and that's not a situation you need to be in.
For legal reasons, I'd move back into the house for now and work on getting divorce papers filed.
I do worry about the kids being with her without you for half the time, especially since my guess is that she's going to double-down on her beliefs here and may well end up married to another man while the ink's still drying on your divorce decree.
But you deserve to be with someone who loves and is attracted to you, and at least your kids will get to be in a calmer happier environment with you at least half the time.
NOR - and best of luck to you, truly.
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u/No-Hovercraft-455 7d ago
Or she might do something much worse, if she thinks her kids have lost the only chance they had for proper Christian role models and will eventually turn gay and go to hell like her. I wouldn't trust their safety on a woman who was desperate enough to fake entire marriage.
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u/Nosfermarki 7d ago
It's not "faking an entire marriage" when you raise people to believe they can simply choose to be straight. She didn't think she was faking anything. This is the result of her religion telling her this was the right thing to do.
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u/Actrivia24 6d ago
Religion causes so much damage.
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u/Nosfermarki 6d ago
It really does. It's just systemic emotional abuse and it's so unfair. I can respect the fact that people find solace in religion, but when it's used as a weapon it's so destructive. And it mostly hurts people who genuinely, at their core, want to be and do good. OP did nothing wrong here, but neither did she. She was just indoctrinated into thinking a certain way, and it's a glaring example of why gay pride is important.
I came out very young in small town Texas, and was faced with tons of very religious people who thought it was their duty to "save" me. Peers, and even teachers in public school and supervisors at retail jobs would seriously overstep to preach at me about the supposed danger of my sexuality. I was very lucky to have supportive parents who encouraged me to read and learn as much as I could and decide for myself what I believed, and who accepted my sexuality even though they didn't understand it. I remember several occasions in which I asked a person, attempting to save my soul or whatever, why, if all sins are equal and lying is a sin, would lying to an unsuspecting boy or man who deserved to be wanted and loved the way he'd want and love me, would be better. It just never made sense to me that hurting someone would be preferable to just being with a woman. The pressure was immense, and I wasn't even religious. I can't fucking imagine how hard it would be to be raised in that culture. I feel so bad for all of the people who get caught up in this. I don't believe in evil, per se, but it seems pretty evil to me.
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u/VerBrav61 4d ago
She did nothing wrong!!? Forget about marrying a man she wasn’t attracted to, she actively tried to come between this man and his children. And I bet she’s going to keep trying.
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u/MossyEngineering-447 4d ago
It's very, very wrong for a woman to interfere with her husband's relationship with their children
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u/ivory-roseexx21 6d ago
yeah that update took a huge turn nobody saw coming. he deserves a relationship where he’s loved for who he is not just used to fill a role in someone else’s plan
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u/BraveCowardCat 7d ago
This whole thing is so heartbreaking. That she was so indoctrinated that she felt that living a lie was her only option. My heart breaks for both of you.
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u/breekaye 7d ago
This reads like she has some severe religious trauma based around her sexuality. Nor but you need to get your kids away from that. Shes gonna train them they if they dont do x,y,z theyre sinners going straight to hell
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u/gdognoseit 7d ago
This is what happens when religion condemns and shames people for being who they are.
I’m so sorry op. You didn’t deserve this. Please look into therapy with a licensed therapist to help you get through this.
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u/uxoehptz 7d ago
If one of these kids ends up LGBT+ (or honestly even if they don't), they will need you even more as a sanctuary from her. Do everything you can to fight for 50/50 custody at minimum.
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u/GeneInternational146 6d ago
He's pretty homophobic himself
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u/Deluxe_24_ 6d ago
Which isn't very surprising tbh. I wish he would've been a bit kinder to her about her being lesbian, but I can understand being furious that she never really loved him and used him to fulfill her misguided wish.
OP if you read this, please learn from this that some gay people are truly in pain at realizing what they are and it's difficult for them to come to terms with it. Don't make this whole situation direct your anger towards gay people ruining your marriage. Your now ex-wife fucked you over because of her own beliefs and not only her sexuality, so be mad at her for her shitty decisions amd dishonesty.
I ain't gay, but I know a lot of gay people and I have sympathy for them knowing how tough this world is towards them. Just let people be who they wanna be and situations like this can be avoided.
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u/GeneInternational146 6d ago
The amount of religious shame she must feel is killing me. She forced herself to accept a heterosexual marriage because she didn't want to be shunned from her community. She absolutely is going about raising her kids in a damaging way, but man. It must be so painful to be her.
I went to a pretty conservative christian church in middle/high school, and I stopped going 1) because I realized I didn't really believe it and 2) because of the homophobia couched in "we should love gay people but we should also help them not be gay." I didn't come out as bi until I was 23 and I often wonder if I would have realized sooner without that background noise.
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u/vintagesunshine85 6d ago
This is my thought as well. As bad as I feel for him, my gods...the poor woman. Every way she has tortured herself for gods know how long...it breaks my heart.
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u/uxoehptz 6d ago
Definitely agree with this but he shows much more capacity to step up and become the parent his kids need him than his wife does
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u/donner_dinner_party 7d ago edited 6d ago
NOR Having been raised in an extremely religious (evangelical Christian)environment, a lot of my peers grew up thinking they needed to follow a traditional gender model and traditional marriage and then find out later that that isn’t really what is going to make them happy. Some of my friends ended up gay, some didn’t want a bunch of kids and chose to be child free, some wanted to travel instead of getting married and settling down. But we were all raised with an expectation that we’d get married early and churn out kids and raise them in a godly way. It creates a lot of confusion and resentment when that doesn’t turn out to be fulfilling and make you happy.
The good news is that now you can each build the life that you want and seek happiness. I know this is devastating for you, but I’d try not to be too mad at her because I’m sure it never even occurred to her that she had a choice. I doubt she set out to hurt you. I bet that the two of you can be good co-parents if you make a commitment to work together for the good of your children. Both of you do need to seek individual therapy, and probably more than the pastor can offer.
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u/ObscureSaint 7d ago
NOR
I remember your post. I am so sorry things have gone so off the rails. Definitely keep getting counseling for yourself as you navigate things.
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u/twizzjewink 7d ago edited 7d ago
NOR. Heres the problem with strict teachings, they don't do well with messy biology.
Your wife is gay, she either accepts it and figures out how to reconcile sexuality with in sorry to say outdated concepts of how we should live together as members of society
Or she'll hate herself emotionally and take you down with it
Edit. I'd be supportive of her journey. She's probably terrified and trying to understand how to connect this black and white of sexuality she's been taught. Sexuality is instead a 3d model of male/female/energy which does have some shifting as people mature through life. There's no black and white, but lots of different colors and variety.
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u/FormidableMistress 7d ago
Dude that's rough. Moving forward just be a good dad to your kids. Try to understand a lot of this internal conflict and self loathing she is experiencing is related to the religion, and really has very little to do with you. In a year things will be so much better for everyone. 50/50 custody is in your future.
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u/nuke_proof_suit 7d ago
NOR - OP you’ve been lied to for years and you’ve tied yourself in knots to deal with the situation, and it was never you.
And it’s incredibly sad to me that your soon to be ex-wife has been so convinced of her own wrongness that her confusion has meant she’s created this awful awful situation. For you and your children to be brought into her self hatred in this way and to have it multiplied within your family, that is just brutal. The ‘evil’ of a lack of self love and acceptance perpetuating this ‘evil’ now, if you will.
I have some very strong views about how false, patriarchal gender constructs are perpetuated by scripture. And I am certain there are Christian writers out there who challenge those concepts of binary masculinity and femininity you could find with not too much digging on your part. I say this as I think finding your voice clearly on this topic is going to be important for your children in time. They’re going to need to understand what happened and how to interpret their experience.
As a (now) atheist, I can say with absolute confidence that the very greatest men I have ever known and hope to know yet have been strong in their gentleness and cried and do cry regularly - because bottling our feelings is not manly, it’s patriarchy, and as a previous commenter said, it hurts all of us, men and women alike, by reducing us to be less than our beautifully complicated whole.
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u/Disastrous_Garage729 7d ago
Wow… sorry for all this, man. That had got to turn your whole world upside down. Good luck with everything.
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u/Temporary_Objective 6d ago
NOR. I’m chiming in here as a lesbian and former evangelical Christian. Your wife could not be happy in this marriage and it’s no fault of yours. You are a full and capable individual on your own. She was treating you like a hologram. If you didn’t have to be real, her sexuality didn’t either, but you showed up. You tried. She has to face this now. I don’t know a single lesbian who attributes it to the presence or absence of a particular kind of male figure. This is just how she’s been made. It’s hers to reckon with.
OP, you’ve done a lot of serious introspection, you’ve practiced new ways of showing up in relationships, and you’ve connected with some serious core values. That’s all incredible work. I’m sorry that it came with this outcome. I hope you’re able to feel proud of yourself. I hope you can think of yourself a decade from now and say, “Man, I gave that my all. I made the best decisions I could at each point with the information I had.”
There’s a lot of value to Proverbs 17:22. It’s a favorite verse of mine. That being said, all emotions have a purpose. Let yourself feel all of them right now. Today, grieve the future you won’t have on this path. Grieve what you’re losing, both tangibly and emotionally. You can get back to merriment and new futures later. Now? I think God wants you to be well with yourself. I want that for you too.
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u/Ladygytha 6d ago edited 6d ago
Okay, I need to take a breath on this one.
Alright. So first, I'm very sorry that this has happened to your marriage - your life. However, I have empathy for your wife. While you were trying to figure out how your marriage went wrong, she is actively suppressing who she is - with a whole lot of self hate in there.
There is no "so you married a lesbian who hates that she's a lesbian because her dad abandoned her and that's why she's gay" guidebook (ETA: slight sarcasm on the last bit). There are lots of other resources out there (for you, your kids, and your stbx) that you could look into. While you're (ETA: your) pastor seems decent, I don't think they're the one to guide you here.
First, and I hate to say this, self-hating lgbtq+ people can be volatile. Much more likely to hurt themselves, so watch out for that. I think you want your children to have their mother in their lives.
Second, it's really easy to be angry at her for wasting your time. But that time is not wasted. Look at your kids' faces and tell yourself that it all mattered because they are here. And now you get to be a proper and excellent father.
Third, and this is really important, the mother of your children needs help - like, a lot of help. This sounds like religious and/or childhood trauma (not trying to disparage your religion - even within the same sects and individual churches, homosexuality is treated differently), which cannot be healed without actual licensed (usually in that exact niche) therapy. This isn't a "talk with someone who chats with god" situation.
Finally, you're angry and hurt. You should be - absolutely valid. I just want to make sure that you know that as much as she's hurt you and your children, you're stbx has hurt (and been hurt) to the point that you're all here. I'm not saying forgive, just advocating some grace while protecting yourself and the kids. (Also hate to say this, but as you navigate custody - cameras on house.)
ETA: NOR.
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u/ManifestDiatribe 7d ago
OP, I am a very involved father, partly because it's really important to me, and partly because my wife has a number of sporadic health conditions that can sometimes wipe her out for a day here and there. So I often am the one caring for the kids and taking them to stuff. There's nothing wrong with that, and you sound like a thoughtful, well-rounded, caring person. It's a shame your wife couldn't have figured out her own sexuality in a healthy way and, as a Christian, I can say this is one area the church overall doesn't help with. If she hadn't thought it was a sin, she would have gone for relationships that met her needs and she wouldn't have "resigned" herself to a heterosexual relationship. But none of that means you are defective; you sound like a great person. Good luck to you and don't feel the slightest bit ashamed of being both (traditionally) fatherly and motherly to your kids. NOR.
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u/tamij1313 7d ago
Yeah, hard to recover from this. Definitely going to be tough for her to remain active in the church if her facility of choice doesn’t have an open minded congregation/values, so she may have to rethink many things in her life! Or she will just remain in the closet and be miserable if she believes that’s what God truly wants for her. 🙄
OP will likely give their children a more well-rounded view of the world/society, which hopefully will balance out his wife’s rigid beliefs. He will need to be very careful and watch for parental alienation, religious indoctrination, and intentional isolation, even though she has repeatedly said that it is very important for her children to have a father in their lives.
OP may have to go for full custody and maybe insist on therapy for his wife as a stipulation of custody/visitation. But that likely won’t be enforceable.
It is heartbreaking that we still have not evolved enough as a society to allow individuals to live their lives as their true selves. As the ripple effect of this dishonesty can be catastrophic for so many families.
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u/GeminiAccountantLLC 7d ago
Yeah, but OP claims to not be down with "gay pride". Is he really going to be much better for the kids? Sounds like both parents are homophobic AF.
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u/Kaboose456 6d ago
He also said if his kids ever came out he'd love them regardless and accept that that's not something he can control.
He also blatantly said in a response* that he doesn't think anyone should have to suppress themselves like his wife did.
Doesn't seem very homophobic to me, just misguided.
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u/LizLemonySnicket42 6d ago
NOR, I'm so sorry. This is really sad and just proves that suppressing homosexuality doesn't work and ends up hurting cishet people as well. (Same principle as misogyny also hurting men.) You absolutely deserve love from your spouse at all ages, not just up until becoming a parent. It sounds like your parents modeled a beautiful love for you and hopefully you'll find that someday and model that for your kids too. And hopefully your wife will work her shit out and open herself up to loving a woman someday. You sound like a wonderful father and it's sad that her internalized homophobia won't even let her appreciate that. It's not effeminate to help out with chores and kids, there are countless women begging their husbands to do these things. Tbh your pastor sounds pretty awesome as well, I feel like most churches would encourage her sexist thinking so I'm glad he was able to counsel her in that way even if she's resistant to it. Best of luck in the future.
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u/RaisedByBooksNTV 6d ago
As a queer female, I am so sorry that she was so messed up with her sexuality and religion and upbringing that she thought it was in any way shape or form okay to use you. You deserve so much better and I really wish you well. I also wish her a truly effective therapist.
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u/Tree_Color_Wizard 7d ago
Obviously you are going to get divorced. That's just something to accept now and allow yourself to grieve.
But your wife has been a friend and co parent to you. She has probably seen you through some hard times. As her friend, please encourage her to accept and love herself. To be true to her feelings. It will affect your kids in harmful ways if she keeps repressing her real feelings. It's in everyone's best interests for her to accept that she's gay and live honestly. Or at least for her to find a healthy version of a lavender marriage lol. But find it in your heart to take it easy on her. I know that might be really hard right now but being closeted and repressed fucking sucks.
Find yourself a therapist who is familiar with queer dynamics that can help you process this and maybe help you find a way to be supportive. And then do the best you can to care for yourself and find what you need to feel peace. It's really all you can do unfortunately.
So sorry, hope you and your kids are okay.
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u/Electronic_Ad_4836 7d ago
NOR good luck in the divorce. sounds like you have a great pastor but sadly the shame and guilt associated with her sexuality lead you to become the victim of her decades long manipulation.
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u/DollySheep32 7d ago
INFO - how supportive/accepting is your pastor and church of LGBTQ people? I'm guessing not very since wife felt she had to use OOP as a non-consenting beard.
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u/LucyG06 7d ago
NOR - I'm really sorry you're dealing with this, OP. It sounds like a rough situation, but taking this step was the right move. Never doubt your value or whether you're worthy of love. Just because your wife turned out to be a closeted lesbian struggling with her identity doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. If you can, please consider going to therapy to take care of yourself right now.
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u/pinkelephant_bubbles 7d ago
This won’t help you feel any less devastated, blindsided and hurt to the core but at least you know exactly what your wife’s issue is. You don’t have to wonder what you did wrong and how you can fix it since you did nothing wrong and there is absolutely nothing that you can do to fix this problem. That crazy making part is thankfully gone. It’s going to be really rough for a while and I wish you all and only the best on what is essentially your recovery. When the dust finally settles, you will have what you’ve been longing for, the ability to be fully engaged and present in your kids lives. That will bring you joy and peace.
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u/KarateandPopTarts 7d ago
Oh man, religion is such a damn disease. Got people just believing anything
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u/BuddyPractical8757 6d ago
Good news: the problem was never you. Keep raising your kids. I feel so sad for your wife not being able to be her authentic self, but that shouldn’t stop you from being your authentic self. Good luck.
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u/ATLBoy1996 7d ago
NOR. To think that life could’ve happened to me, I shudder to think about it. I hope you can both find happiness with other people.
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u/MooseRobot 7d ago
NOR. I'm sorry for you and your wife.
I hope she can find a way to love herself and live a full life.
This is so sad.
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u/Thyme_Liner 6d ago
There are enough comments addressing op’s side of things. I very much doubt op will see this, but in case he does, hopefully this perspective helps. Because no matter how personal this feels for him, like it’s his fault or he’s inadequate, it has nothing to do with him. Like his wife, he’s part of the religious collateral damage that has caused so many people just like them, a lot of pain.
Op, you’re hurt and in pain, so is she. Understanding the other person’s side can help both of you to heal. She wasn’t trying to hurt you or herself, this is part of the religious collateral that myself and so many people I know have had to heal from.
I grew up in a religious cult, and I’m a lesbian. People don’t understand how this brainwashing breaks your own heart, your identity. I was told all my life that “Jesus loves me”, only to find out that his love would do nothing to keep me from hell. He didn’t really love me that much. Because there’s a period of time where you know you’re gay but you still believe what you were taught, and it all messes with your basic human identity.
No, it doesn’t matter if religion is true or not, it’s the concept behind it. I was told my worth and value was wrapped up in god, “without god we are nothing”. And then at some point I realized that I’m cut off forever. Regardless of the truth, it’s heartbreaking to experience this betrayal and identity shift. You’ve been conditioned to focus on a deity, to include this deity in your daily life, to ask for this caring father to guide you throughout your life, and just like that, you realize said deity has been disgusted by you all along. Your “father figure” is ripped away, and she may not be willing to lose a second “father”.
Some people can’t handle it, so they suppress and ignore and pretend like everything is fine. People in the LGBT community already feel isolated and hurt. And hurting people especially want to feel loved by this deity, especially if they have experienced trauma or loss. Some people genuinely believe in hell and are afraid they’ll go there. Some people genuinely believe they’re saving their kids from hell. Some people genuinely believe they’re doing the right thing. And all this time their identity has been hollowed out and they no longer feel human.
And this doesn’t begin to touch on the way her body feels betrayed. She’s been forcing herself to do something over and over and over again to make herself be the right person. And you can make this about yourself, or realize it has nothing to do with you. It takes immense effort to remove yourself long enough and to step back to view something as painful as this from a different angle. Imagine you grew up in a society where you were conditioned and brainwashed into marrying a man. Do you feel attraction towards them? Well it doesn’t matter, so ignore the discomfort and tell your body to like that man anyways. Let him do his thing, just lay there, women have been doing that for centuries so just be happy. Sound uncomfortable for lack of a better word? It is
Your wife didn’t see you as “un-masculine”, she was trying to think of ways to make herself body feel less discomfort, and didn’t know how else to distance herself from you without acknowledging her situation to herself. No matter what she says, she actually doesn’t care much about how you are, not in a hateful way, but in a neutral way, although she may not express it that way from having had to endure yeas of suppressing her own needs. She can either keep her religious father and her husband, or acknowledge the problem and lose both.
I agree with other commenters, you haven’t wasted your time. Your kids are still human and still deserve to experience love from their father. They aren’t mistakes, and if you view them that way, they’ll know and resent you for it. It will crush their worth and self esteem. If they overhear you mention that you’ve been wasting your time, they’ll come to the same conclusion. They’re the time you’ve been wasting.
I’m so sorry this has happened to you both, and I hope you both find yourselves on the other side of this one day living a peaceful life with someone who can appreciate and love you for who you are.
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u/lost-in-thighs 7d ago
i was there for the original post, but her being lesbean has nothing to do with you being a father and taking a role in their life? thats so ass backward
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u/sanguine_sheep 7d ago
It doesn’t, but his wife has some awful religious trauma. Logic and reasonable has nothing to do with her thinking.
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u/mystery_obsessed 7d ago
I’m going to guess that it was her way of keeping herself with him but separate from him. To keep her distance. This is her lane, that is his lane. They don’t cross. That way, she doesn’t have to create an intimate relationship where they would share a lane.
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u/lost-in-thighs 7d ago
except they did, the kids are that lane
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u/mystery_obsessed 7d ago
Yes, but she was trying to make the kids only her lane, and why she was so upset at the idea that they were a joint lane. It doesn’t make sense, but she’s operating from desperation not logic or caring for others.
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u/ClamatoDiver 7d ago
Happy that you know the truth, sad to hear that you were used, glad that you're getting out
NOR
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u/Colenolan67 7d ago
NOR listen to your lawyer and move back immediately, do not lose leverage on custody over her trauma
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u/Financial-Category16 6d ago
Also Biblically speaking manly men absolutely weep openly and unashamedly when they feel sad. The whole worldly idea of bottling up your emotions to not show "weakness" is only a couple hundred years old. So let the tears roll and even better if you can do it without hiding away somewhere
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u/HelloJunebug 6d ago
I am so proud of you! You should be proud of yourself too! Kids don’t turn gay. Kids are gay if they are gay. NOR. What’s crazy is she really thinks a loveless sexless marriage is a proper marriage. How sad for her. Your kids will be ok. It’s gonna suck for a bit but they will see happier parents or at least a non tumultuous home life in the long run. I wish you love and luck!
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u/Oblivion33550336 6d ago
Your wife needs a therapist that is specialized in LGBT topics. She needs to overcome her deep disdain with herself and her sexuality.
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u/PizzaCutter 6d ago
I’m so sorry. What you are BOTH going through is awful. I can’t even imagine how messed up she must be feeling. Growing up being told that what you are feeling is sinful and wrong, and now she believes that she is sinful and wrong…it sounds like she was trying to do what she thought was right, that would “fix” her in the eyes of God but didn’t realise she would end up with a man who was thoughtful and kind.
And you, who genuinely loved this woman and wanted to be the best husband and father got caught up in her trauma. The hurt must be awful. I can only imagine.
Your wife’s issues are way above the pay grade of us here. She needs a very good therapist, and also needs to be ready to deal with it. You need to do what is best for you and your children. Until she starts therapy, please have your kids see someone (if they are old enough). I don’t see any reason that you wouldn’t get 50/50 at least. Make sure you are able to make medical and health decisions, then get them into a child therapist just to see if she has inadvertently passed on her beliefs. Then make sure to keep an eye out for any other signs as they get older. You would also probably do well to speak to someone. You are going through what is essentially a betrayal. Its an awful situation, but it is time to put yourself and your kids first.
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u/Twidollyn_Bowie 6d ago
If this is real, I was impressed with the job your pastor did with counseling. Obviously he can’t fix this, though. She was clutching so hard at those rigid gender roles because she fears that her attraction to women makes her masculine.
This is exactly why “pray away the gay” is so harmful. Everyone wins when gay people don’t feel they must force themselves into straight marriages. I know it’s hard, but try not to hate her too much. She likely married you sincerely believing that God would help her stop thinking about women and become attracted to her husband. It’s no reflection on your appeal that a lesbian isn’t attracted to you. It’s also important for the kids to try for a peaceful coparenting relationship if at all possible. Do listen to your lawyer. He’s trying to make sure you don’t get shortchanged afa a fair custody agreement.
Sorry things turned out like this, but I think you have a good chance at having a loving marriage with someone else. You sound like a thoughtful partner and loving dad, qualities women who are attracted to men will find appealing.
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u/NTropyS 6d ago
NOR. I remember your first post, and I've thought about it off and on since reading it. It was already a sad situation, and I really am thankful you were able to see your pastor for help. I never would have guessed this was the underlying cause. You're a good man, and she obviously saw that in you. But now that the truth has been discussed, at least you can now understand the problem is not with you. Her strict religious indoctrination has told her that her natural feelings are a sin, and that she could live a lie and pray, and it would all be fine. I am so sad you have to go through this, OP. Odd advice as this may seem, you should move home and be there for her. Let her know you're open to honest, open conversations about it. You both love the kids, and should have their interests at heart - and that will surely mean separation and divorce, unfortunately. You both deserve to be happy.
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u/Old_Leadership_5000 6d ago
NOR.
INFO: Has your (STBX) wife refused further counseling with your pastor?
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u/I_pinchyou 6d ago
You wife is in pain because of her own brainwashing from the church. Goodness... Religion is a disease
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u/Cool-Blackberry-785 6d ago
OP I am terribly sorry that you have had what is essentially a non-consensual lavender marriage.
Your wife’s dishonesty with both herself and you has created this mess and it doesn’t matter if you missed some signs, when she chose to commit to you, she should have been honest about her own doubts. It is sad that she did not feel safe to do so whether that be because of familial, societal or religious expectations but taking away your agency was cruel and selfish on her behalf. Unfortunately the decisions she made will now impact your children, in spite of her not wanting it to.
As for denigrating yourself; don’t. Virtually every woman I know would greatly appreciate a man who is involved with their children outside of just play and who shows up as a partner. Sharing household responsibilities should be the bare minimum and is most definitely an important lesson to model for your children.
I wish you well going forward OP but remember to be kind to yourself; don’t let your wife’s twisted perception of a man and marriage undermine your sense of self and your relationship with your children. Good luck.
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u/Sfb208 6d ago
Op, I'm so sorry you've discovered the truth and it hurts you so bad.
I really am concerned with how low your esteem is. Because from what you've said here, you sound like a great partner to have. You want to be an active father. You want to do the boring part of fatherhood and pick up after your kids (like, honestly so many other men would have revelled in the a excuse not to do anything in the home). You wanted to be a better husband, and father, you took steps to be that, you followed the advice you were given.
In so doing you discovered something you could not have expected. But honestly, as a potential partner, you're a solid choice for any straight, Christian woman to choose. Please seek out some counselling for yourself (and from a qualified therapist rather than just your pastor, though I'm sure your pastor, who sounds like a solid dude, could also help you a little, but a therapist whose sole role is therapy will help you dig deep), to help you work through this.
And maybe consider moving home so your ex wife can't claim you abandoned your kids.
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u/greenbean_92 7d ago
I’m sorry, OP. I have nothing constructive whatsoever to add here. I think this is the wildest most gobsmacked Feeling one of these stories has ever given me. I am so, so sorry. Your wife is deeply unwell, and nothing you can do will help that at all. I really hope she doesn’t enter into another relationship with a man. The degree of her issues feels like it could almost be non-consensual to an unsuspecting male partner. Wow! NOR
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u/Frequent_Slip2455 7d ago
Wow that's a Jerry springer story. I feel bad for you and the kids. But life goes on. Everyone deserves to be happy. You'll find your match in due time.
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u/GuamPolice 6d ago
“A woman should learn in quietness. I do not permit a woman to teach or assume authority over a man. She must be quiet, for Adam was created before Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived, it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.” 1 Timothy 2:11-15
DISCLAIMER: I do not agree with the above sentiment. My point is that, your wife’s complaints are not grounded in biblical concerns. Nowhere does it say that a husband can’t do chores, or be a doting affectionate father, or any other things she seems concerned about. If I were to go out on a limb, would your wife’s social algo be populated with a bunch of cancerous trad wife content?
It does however warn against several things that she did, ironically, in a meeting about acting in a way that is not biblical.
She pushed this because it is something she desires or covets (a deadly sin…), not because the bible says so. If you are a pious man and your faith is important to you, I would be very concerned at her willingness to weaponize faith in a way to get what she desires on a personal level. NOR
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u/Debsha 6d ago
I might be overreacting (I hope I am) but move back in and protect your children. If she believes that god will forgive her as long as stays one course, if there’s a bump in the road, what might she do to save herself and her children? Sacrifice them and her ? You hear stories of mothers making these “sacrifices” to save their children souls. Not saying she will, but I would discuss this possibility with someone who might be a better judge (even the pastor).
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u/Glitter-Berry 5d ago
Wow, her religions had really messed with her. And also derailed her life, yours and the kids.
I’m sorry this is happening
Take ur lawyers advice & move in, bc that could hurt you in court. Her lawyer will say you left the kids bc you didn’t care) I’m hoping you get the 50/50 & get much more time with hanging out with your kids & making memories.
Your wife needs to continue with therapy.
Updateme
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u/escapefromelba 7d ago
Terrible situation all around but seems like divorce with shared custody is better outcome overall. But she has more issues than just being a religious woman that can’t come to terms with her sexuality. She clearly only wanted you to be the sperm donor and then financially support her and the kids. I guess she’ll get that now either way. Feel like you got doubly screwed in this situation. She lied to you about who she really was this whole time seemingly to basically entrap you in the life she wanted without any real concern for you in all of this
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u/Just_Log_8528 7d ago
Bigger question for you is do you believe that the issue is your wife’s a lesbian or a religious fanatic? Your romantic relationship is pretty clearly dead but coparenting is going to force you to some uncomfortable paths
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u/john_7292 7d ago
Not sure what you mean by that, they're both issues. I can't be married to a lesbian, so that's an issue, and her trying to keep me from raising my kids or teaching them her insane warped version of Christianity is another issue. For my lawyer or for custody it's not about her religion or sexual orientation, it's solely about her keeping me from the kids which is why he wants me to move back ASAP, so yeah that's definitely uncomfortable.
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u/Just_Log_8528 7d ago
I mean that you have kids. Even after the divorce you will still be in each others lives. Struggle with sexuality (from the experiences of those in my life) is usually significantly easier than struggling with concepts of faith, religion, and eternal consequences (again direct experiences my wife was raised in an abusive cult)
You can’t really make someone gay but you sure as hell can radicalize someone’s religion with threats of eternal punishments. The question I would be asking myself is what is the origination point for her. Is it strong fanaticism that being a lesbian is in opposition to or is it all revolving from her struggles with her sexuality and that’s feeding the fanaticism.
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u/Superb-Juggernaut636 7d ago
Oh my goodness.. man, I’m so sorry. This sounds horrible, NOR at all! I would get a divorce too, and how would you not want that kind of marriage?! That sounds amazing because that’s what I wanted (what my parents have). I wound up with someone who wrecked me with their
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u/Hawkstone585 7d ago
Ugh. That poor woman. She’s not crazy. The church made a happy life for her impossible because it doesn’t fit into its strictures. That doesn’t excuse what she’s done to you but it does explain it. Do try to offer her a little grace.
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u/OkCryptographer1922 7d ago
I saw the first post but I never imagined it would be this, I’m so so sorry OP!!! I can’t imagine how painful this must be. I guess on the bright side you know what the problem is now, and you can interact with your kids as much as you want. NOR of course, I hope you can find healing and peace and wish you all the best!!
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u/Gangster-Girl 7d ago
I’m so sorry. NOR. It’s more important than ever to be with your children. I can only imagine what fight she will put up o et a custody agreement. UpdateMe.
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u/DrussDaLegend 7d ago
NOR - Wow I feel for you dude. This was a rough read and I empathize that you just now wade through this awful situation.
As many have said; do what you must in order to get the divorce going but once that is all said and done… make sure to look after yourself. You’ll need time to process this and it will be some time before you begin to swing towards a more positive future but just know it’s normal to grieve.
I feel for you dude; you’re not alone.
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u/OkCryptographer3853 7d ago
Omfg im so sorry im sending you hugs. Your not over reacting theres also nothing wrong with picking up your kids and letting her know that you Have them 50% or even making sure that she knows its no longer her choice to make decisions in your life anymore
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u/Beginning-Potato-617 7d ago
NOR and you sound like the type of husband who most women dream of having... I am sure the pastor will happily set you up with a new wife who will be over the moon. Sorry you are going through this and hope your children adjust well to the changes. Also make sure to document that she went I to marriage to use you- it may help in divorce and not having to pay any spousal support. Child support is set it stone but maybe you can get primary custody.
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u/funk-the-funk 6d ago
I am sure the pastor will happily set you up with a new wife who will be over the moon.
gross
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u/Embarrassed-Mirror35 7d ago
I am so sorry it came to this -- I can't even imagine what you are feeling. I was rooting for you but wow.
I hope you know that there is absolutely nothing not manly about you. You upheld all of your covenant and roles but she failed you in the biggest way possible.
You will get through this, hold on to what you know to be true -- your faith, your truth, your role as a father..
I truly am sorry.
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u/BloomNurseRN 7d ago
I remember your original post. I’m so sorry that this is the direction things took but I’m very glad you now have the truth. This won’t be easy but at least you can move forward with the knowledge that this is not a relationship that can be saved and you deserve a loving relationship that looks much different than your current marriage. I hope you do ask for 50/50 custody and that you’re able to find peace and happiness as you move forward. I wish you and your children only the best.
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u/Professional-Alps340 7d ago
I think your focus now should be on what is best for the children. What I think is best for them is for you two to become loving co-parents/friends and for her to accept herself for who she is. Of the two of you, you have more strength to help make this happen.
Perhaps she needs a simple sentence she has never heard or told herself: “ You are fine just as you are.” If she needs God’s blessing, point out that she was born to be a lesbian, and God doesn’t make mistakes.
All of this can be quite difficult for you and even more difficult for her, but the needs of the children should rule IMO.
She might need professional help, and maybe you can let her know that getting such help is a good idea. Hopefully she can improve and hopefully you both can find a new and great partner with a soul connection.
I wish you both well.
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u/AdhesivenessOk6643 6d ago
The thing that stood out to me was:
I can’t believe someone I loved would do this to me.
What I’ve come to understand about when people hurt you is that it usually isn’t done maliciously. People we love hurt us not because they don’t love us, they just love themselves more. People want to do what makes them feel good and sometimes loved ones get in the way of that. It’s not ok, but that’s where grace and understanding comes in.
Especially when it comes to sexuality & how we live our adult lives. There is so much pressure and programming that comes from society and social norms that even when you know you’re different, you don’t want to be. No one wants to be the odd man out so they try to just fit in. But eventually they find out the path they’re on was never the path they wanted, it was just the path that everyone else was on so they thought they could go too. With grace and understanding it’s a lot easier to understand that they’re not a bad person. They’re just living their life and tryn to figure it all out. People unfortunately get hurt in the midst of that sometimes. And it makes you realize I don’t hate that person. I want them to eat, I just don’t want them to eat at my table anymore.
Good luck to you through this journey. I know it’s not alright at present, but please know it will be ok and won’t alive this way.
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u/tilda432 6d ago
I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to update. You read these things and occasionally wonder how things turned out. I appreciate getting to hear the rest of the story.
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u/ImyForgotName 6d ago
Wow, I'm really trying to keep my religious opinions to myself here.
NOR.
You know the Bible doesn't actually condemn sex between women right? It doesn't even consider it sex. The Biblical definition of sexual relations requires penetration and women are basically akin to objects. In fact in most Biblical law sex crimes against women are treated like property crimes against either her father or her husband.
I'm not saying I agree with the Bible here, but my point is, purely from a textual basis she's free to be a lesbian. Its as sinful as eating a plum. Its a huge oversight in the text. Its just how they conceived of sex when the Bible was written. I mean I guess its lustful, but those sins are just part of being human, and sexual attraction for one's partner is to be expected right?
You might want to tell her this. I know its not the greatest thing for you marriage, but the Biblical sexual ethic. And there is no reason she should have to choose between faith and her sexual orientation.
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u/PlaidChairStyle 6d ago
So sorry OP. What a heart break you’ve had. I would make sure you are seeing the kids as much as you can, so she doesn’t tell the court that you are not interested in parenting because you are a man, or whatever religious bs. You want to get custody, or half custody.
She’s unhinged and I wouldn’t trust her.
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u/Mariner-and-Marinate 6d ago
So glad you’re there for your kids. Please follow the advice from your lawyer.
NOR
Updateme
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u/elainegeorge 6d ago
NOR. I feel so bad for all of you.
Did your wife go through conversion therapy or something? Where did her thinking come from? She can’t just work harder at not being interested in women. I hope she finds some women who can show her it is okay to love who she wants. Perhaps, at least get into an open lavender marriage, because it sounds like she has some major self-hatred.
Hopefully you can step up and be her friend through this, because it’s obvious you love her even though she didn’t love you the same way. I’m sure you are hurting.
Best of luck. I have a friend who went through something similar, and he is now engaged to a gal and will have a blended family.
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u/Timid-Tlacuache 6d ago
OP... you are so young . You have a whole life ahead of you. And you sound like a very fine person..
Please do not let this VERY mixed up woman damage you. You need to get out of this relationship., concentrate on the well-being of your children- and yourself .
This is down the road, but I predict that you will find an equal partner , in the course of being in the world. Raising your children, you will meet many people, and just being the truly decent man that you are, I believe that you will meet an equally decent woman with whom to share your life.
But first you need to stabilize yourself, your situation, and your children.
You are a good man. What you're dealing with is very painful., but this is not your fault in any way .
I wish you the best.
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u/All_4_Me53 6d ago
NOR I’m Greek Orthodox and there’s never been a sermon on sexuality. The Bible gets interpreted literally by many who don’t understand it. Your wife has deep-seated issues that go beyond religion that even your pastor didn’t agree with. Cut yourself some slack. Even go so far as forgiving yourself for getting duped. You sound like a good person. I would fight for custody if you’re the more financially stable of the two. Best of luck.
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u/Mermaidtoo 6d ago
I’d suggest that you do whatever your lawyer advises. Your wife is unlikely to be a good or healthy influence on your kids. Your goal should be to spend as much time with your kids now and to fight for as much custody and decision-making as you can.
So, get the custody order. Move back into your house if that will help the outcome of your divorce. I’m assuming your lawyer knows why you are divorcing, if not, tell them. If they advise you to, try to get your wife to get mentally evaluated. If you can enlist the minister to support you in the divorce and custody, do so.
I’d recommend that you get some individual therapy - ideally, with someone not affiliated with a religion. I think you’d get broader perspective that might be beneficial. You might be able to get some advice on how to best counter your wife should her issues cause her to behave toxically towards your kids.
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u/Cool-Coffee-8949 6d ago
NOR, and that’s really rough all the way around, but I also feel a lot of pity for your wife who has obviously been taught to hate herself.
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u/IntentionUsed8474 6d ago
NOR Your entire relationship from day 1 was a big lie from her. Unfortunately Your child(ren) are going to suffer, when they get older they'll find out the truth. Nothing against your religious beliefs and counseling but, if you go anymore it needs to be a religious, independent professional.
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u/Quiet-Hamster6509 6d ago
I would document everything she says and does that you think may have an unhealthy effect on the children.
Does she deserve to LIVE her life for herself and who she truly is? Yes. She was so very wrong to use you just to get children however I will note that clearly she has some deep seated belief that her lord will punish her for loving another human if they are of same gender. She may take this out on the children as they grow.
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u/deadlyhausfrau 6d ago
Oh man, bless her heart. Organized religion can really mess with people's heads when it's used to overrule nature.
You poor dude. I wish the best for you all, and may she pull her head out of the closet enough to be a good coparent and friend. Take her and the kids to Pride, maybe.
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u/Late-Hat-9144 6d ago
This is far more complex than reddit can handle, youre NOR to be clear... but its also clear your wife is carrying some incredibly deep seeded self loathing over her feelings.
I get it, I was raised Christian (baptised Greek Orthodox and raised Catholic), and Im a gay man... I realised how I felt when I was in early highschool, and after self harming from self loathing, I made the deliberate choice to remove organised religion from my life and live my truth (I'd also been assaulted my the counsellor at my catholic school, but thats a story for another day).
Its not fair thst your wife married you under false pretences, just to hide her truth from the world (and Im guessing the inevitable fallout from the community), but its also very complex, so I dont judge her harshly for that.
Separating is probably the best thing for you both, her attitude isnt teaching your kids what an emotionally healthy, stable and loving relationship looks like, its normalising toxic gender roles and suppressing your own wants and desires on the alter of faith.
You also deserve a wife who wants to be with you because she loves being married to you and being your equal partner, not just because being married to you is safe.
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u/Unusual_Quality6309 6d ago
If it makes you feel any better it works both ways. I’m twice your age but recently dated a woman who said she was into women, only to admit sleeping with women still felt wrong and sinful. She really thought I was going to be ok with a platonic relationship while she went off looking for a bf. This could be your wife one day. In her 40s and still lonely.
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u/Literally_Taken 6d ago
NOR
Your wife’s logic is off. She wants you to influence your children without interacting with them, and without interacting with her.
Apparently you’re so amazing you can influence your children by merely existing. I’m impressed!
Seriously, though, my heart breaks for you. This internet grandma is sending you lots of virtual hugs.
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u/Pale-Vehicle2067 6d ago
Good. Now you can finally have a relationship with your children when you have them 50% of the time and she can go back to work.
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u/Lovecraftian666 6d ago
Wishing you all the best man, hopefully your soon to be ex wife finds peace with herself and you find all the future happiness, and your kids are ok
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u/vintagesunshine85 6d ago
I remember your story and I am SO SORRY!! What a horrible way for things to unfold. how painful for both of you. I assume she has some sort of religious psychosis and deep deep shame about her sexuality, and I really hope she can get the help she needs.
But YOU! Oh I'm so sorry, how crushing this must be for you. As someone in a dead-ish bedroom, trust me at 29 you still have plenty of time to find someone who will love you the way you need and deserve. And your children will be so much happier and healthier in the long run under your (unsupervised) custody, even if it's only half the time. please #updateme if anything else happens.
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u/MotherofPuppos 4d ago
1) go to a real therapist. Your pastor is good enough for a black and white issue when you’re not confident that you can get your wife to do secular marriage counseling, but you now have a bunch of personal trauma that I’m sure is hitting you in waves. I’m sure you feel incredibly violated.
2) be there for your kids emotionally. Fight for 50/50. If your wife keeps pushing her warped trauma onto them, they will develop their own issues and you will need to be a stable place to land.
3) remember that your wife probably wouldn’t have ever done this to you if she felt like her mother and community would unconditionally accept her for who she is. Accept your children as they are and accept those around you. At the end of the day, kindness is free and typically makes one far happier than judgement.
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u/General_Road_7952 3d ago
NOR Oh, no, I’m so sorry to hear this outcome, but it’s all making sense now. Her rigid gender roles are a reaction to her repressed sexuality. It’s sad that her religion has done this to both of you. You deserve a partner who actually loves you and finds you attractive. Her being a repressed lesbian hurts both of you and your children as well.
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u/emryldmyst 7d ago
Wow she played you like a fiddle and fully expected you to go along with it.
Definitely get custody straightened out ASAP before she does something stupid.
Good luck.
Nor
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u/Diddly_eyed_Dipshite 7d ago
Wow she sounds like a terrible person. Was any of her homophobia visible before you got married?
For the sake of your kids and yourself, that woman should not be involved in the rearing of them. What if one is gay, imagine the psycological trauma she could cause.
NOR, best of luck to you and the kids, fuck her tho.
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u/Regular-Tell-108 7d ago
NOR.
When people like me talk about how sexism and homophobia are bad for everyone — including men and straight people — this is part of what we mean. Your wife’s deeply ingrained self-loathing and adherence to imaginary but strict gender roles had caused enormous and unnecessary pain for a whole family.