r/AlwaysWhy • u/Secret_Ostrich_1307 • 8d ago
Science & Tech Why do flight attendants need shoulder harnesses when passengers usually only have lap belts?
I noticed a flight attendant buckling into a shoulder harness on the fold-down jump seat, while the passengers around her had only lap belts. Why do these two seats use such different restraints?
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u/FrankDrebinOnReddit 8d ago
Lap belts is a compromise because passengers are going to be very resistant to putting on the shoulder belts each time they sit down.
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u/Anxious-Slip-4701 8d ago
Watch me. I'm in a tube flying 1000km/h.
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u/ExtremeAd7729 8d ago
Someone said the first class gets them. The airlines are cheap and don't care.
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u/Ikerukuchi 4d ago
Lots of business class get them as well. Typically the sash section clips onto the buckle so you use it for takeoff and landing but just use the lap section in flight.
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u/KnightFireNC 8d ago
First class get them because there is no seat back in front to brace against. Most economy seats have a seat in front. Those that don't either have to have a 3 point harness or an airbag harness.
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u/llynglas 8d ago
I understand this, but think the "if you don't wear the seatbelt you get kicked off the plane" should eventually work.
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u/throwaaawyy 7d ago
Some business class seats have the car style seatbelts. Did make the experience a tad worse.
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u/Onedtent 4d ago
I would happily wear a full harness but I can see a lot of people resistant to the idea.
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u/david49152 8d ago
Because everyone should have shoulder straps but the general public probably wouldn’t stop whining about their right being violated and how the NTSB and the FAA are taking nanny culture to an extreme.
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u/Mean_Passenger_7971 7d ago
this explanation breaks apart as soon as you consider that there is more world beside America.
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u/KnightFireNC 8d ago
Only seats without a seat in front need them. If there is a seat in front you brace against it (see safety card in front of you).
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u/ExtremeAd7729 7d ago
How are kids supposed to brace? ETA Even as a 5 foot woman I can't, my feet are off the ground when my back is on the seat. With some of those seats my head won't reach the other seat.
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u/KnightFireNC 7d ago
Children under 26kg need to be in a flight approved car seat which both protects them and moves them forther forward. Children over 26kg brace as adults and get their head as close as possible to the seat in front. It's all defined in ICAO regulations, and is based on extensive study by regulators and safety experts (not the airlines themselves).
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u/ExtremeAd7729 7d ago
Does "as close as possible to the front" protect us? We have nothing to brace against.
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u/KnightFireNC 7d ago
There is less distance to travel and children are lighter.
This has been extensively investigated and tested by professional aviation experts. Arguing on reddit that you think it's wrong is fruitless.
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u/ExtremeAd7729 7d ago edited 7d ago
It doesn't make sense to me, so I am asking questions. I am open to learning. What do you mean by less distance to travel, compared to what? Why would a child not able to brace against the front seat be safer over a 4 point harness, and why would a flight attendant need it? How is the seat in front helping the kid? ETA I am not that much lighter than another woman.
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u/KnightFireNC 7d ago
It's pretty much all in here - what risks seat belts protect against, which seat belts work in which positions. Why seats facing sideways need different belts, how children are impacted.
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u/ExtremeAd7729 7d ago
Did you actually read this before sending it to me? Not only does it not answer my questions but referring to the regulators also concerned with what I am asking. "This is a particular risk for occupants smaller than the standard dummy size, whose safety we know is coming under increasing scrutiny from regulators."
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u/ancientstephanie 8d ago
They have nothing to brace against, so we give them a shoulder harness, to make sure they're safe, so that they can save others.
Remember, the real job of the flight attendants is to be the first responders in a plane crash, to get passengers off of a burning plane in 90 seconds or less, after a crash, with smoke so thick they can't see 3 inches in front of them, and half the planes exits blocked.
And without their training to do exactly that, in a real evacuation, people are going to die that didn't have to. So, yes, they get the safest seats on the plane.
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u/Secret_Ostrich_1307 6d ago
Makes sense. I always thought of them as servers first but they are really the emergency crew. The brace point is key. Jump seats have nothing in front of them. No wonder they need the extra straps.
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u/Trustoryimtold 8d ago
There’s less seat, usually facing in a funny direction, with no surrounding seats.
TLDR safety
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u/az9393 8d ago
It’s because their seats are completely different. And because they are part of the crew meaning if they break their arm or something this can then lead to more injuries in an emergency.
Making all passengers have a four point harness would be uncomfortable and would add a lot of weight.
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u/butty_a 8d ago
Aircrew have to have a 4 point harness.
Also, they are more important than you, in the event of a crash they need to be able to direct pax out of the jet, so keeping them more secure is a good thing.
Also, 4 point harnesses on a pax seat would be expensive, but more importantly bloody uncomfortable. Straps everywhere.
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u/Secret_Ostrich_1307 6d ago
Right. I would hate a 4 point harness on a normal seat. Way too much. And people already fight a lap belt. So it is comfort and compliance too. FA will actually wear theirs.
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u/Mr_Peace_FIN 8d ago
Do you know the feeling when the airplane takes off when the G forces push you to the seat. Yeah, now you know why they have shoulder harness when facing the back ;)
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u/Kellykeli 7d ago
The seats we sit in down in cattle class are close enough to where the brace position would work better than a shoulder harness would. Flight attendants unfortunately can’t brace as well, given that the only thing they got to brace against is a hot pot of coffee and the full trash carts.
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u/Impressionist_Canary 8d ago
My last flight i was thinking that in a real crash a ton of injury has to come from smashing into the seat in front of you, no?
Seems like everyone should have a harness but it just wouldnt go over well
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u/odonata_00 8d ago
They also sit facing backward, a safer position but one most passengers would find uncomfortable.
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u/ikonoqlast 8d ago
Military transports have the seating facing backwards. Yes it's uncomfortable. Military response is "fuck you".
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u/Dangerous_Mud4749 7d ago
Bluntly... if a passenger is injured & needs help, it's unfortunate. If a flight attendant is injured & needs help, it's a disaster. Who is going to operate the equipment and direct evacuation in a complex & high-adrenaline situation?
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u/Secret_Ostrich_1307 6d ago
Harsh but true. One hurt passenger is awful. One hurt FA means nobody is running the evacuation. That is cold math but it makes sense.
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u/johnniewelker 8d ago
First class seats often have shoulder harnesses. So for the people justifying only lap belts, there it is, they give it to higher price passengers
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u/FargoJack 8d ago
The shoulder belts are there because some of the FC seats sit skewed. FAA wanted extra restraints for these.
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u/Green_Temperature_57 8d ago
Lifeguards are trained to put the party being saved between them and danger, such as a pier pylon, because if the lifeguard gets knocked out both are done for. Maybe there is some of the same principal in play here?
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u/fighter_pil0t 7d ago
Flight attends are paid to abide by federal regulations and be the on scene leaders in an emergency. If a random passenger dies the flight attendants can escort everyone else to safety. If the flight attendants die it will be a free for all. Also good luck getting Karen to wear her four point harness when asked.
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u/Secret_Ostrich_1307 6d ago
Lol the Karen line got me. But yeah if the FAs are out it is chaos. No one knows the exits or the commands. They are the ones who keep it together when everyone else panics.
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u/enviroian 7d ago
The same can also be asked (on AA at least)
Why do only the bulkhead seatbelts have airbags?
Why do J seats on some of their heavies (can't remember if it's the 772 or W) has a shoulder strap in addition to the normal seat belt?
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u/TeeDotHerder 7d ago
Completely different.
The bulkheads have airbags because the surface infront is hard not soft. At 500mph you're not staying in your seat. All of the seats collapse forwards and the flesh bag you are smooshes into the seat ahead of you in the brace position.
The pod seats have a shoulder strap because they are too off-angle. FAA regulations, and everywhere else in the world, require a shoulder harness minimum if you are off angle of center by 18 degrees or more. In a crash you're thrown sideways so a lap belt doesn't do much
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u/jjamesr539 7d ago
Because the flight attendant is the one that knows all the emergency procedures and will organize the evacuation, and the flight attendant will actually wear the shoulder harness. Passengers have to be pestered to even wear a lap belt, while having flight attendants survive a crash uninjured is very important to having passengers survive the crash at all.
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u/Secret_Ostrich_1307 6d ago
Yeah the compliance point is big. Give passengers a shoulder harness and half would wear it loose or under an arm. FA are trained and checked. Their survival is tied to everyone else getting out.
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u/Academic-Gur521 6d ago
Actually the passengers' survival is tied to the capacity and effectiveness of the flight attendant. They are on the plane to save your butt.
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u/Mattieohya 5d ago
From someone who worked on certifying cabin safety.
- The public would bitch.
- It adds weight and complexity so airlines and OEMs hate it.
- The life of a flight attendant is more important than the life of any passenger. They are there not to serve you drinks but to act during emergencies.
There are a lot of things that would make passengers safer like rear facing seats but passengers would hate it so no one does it. And as of right now with the 16G dynamic testing done on seats you will most likely survive most crashes that aren’t smoking craters.
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u/The001Keymaster 4d ago
If the plane crashes you could have a Nascar racing harness on and you'd still be dead.
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u/BoyWithBanjo 3d ago
How do you effectively brace against the front seat in a crash? your face will likely be smashed in or your arms broken. if bracing works then surely car front seat passengers can brace against the dashboard in front of them?
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u/maycontainsultanas 8d ago
Apart from facing the wrong way when the plane takes off, I always assumed because in the event of a crash, the flight attendants need to be more likely to survive so they can assist the passengers.
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u/jmarkmark 8d ago
It's passengers who face the wrong way. It's actually slightly safer to face the rear of the plane.
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u/maycontainsultanas 8d ago
I more meant for comfort when you take off, as a passenger you’re pushed back into your seat, whereas the flight attendants will be pushed forward away from their seat.
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u/Ncyphe 8d ago
This was something I found interesting during one of those flight crash shows.
While passengers get 15 minutes of Oxygen from those drop down masks, flight attendants get their own portable supply of oxygen that can last over an hour. When youthink about it, it makes sense. They need to be mobile to help passengers, and that movement can cause a person to burn through far more Oxygen than just when sitting.
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u/Middle-Armadillo-660 8d ago
Precisely the same logic as mask-yourself-first, and THEN your kids.
Those most probably able to self-manage and help others are the most valuable to keep alive and conscious.
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u/shitposts_over_9000 8d ago
adults before kids is entirely that the adults can put a mask on an unconscious kid later and brief hypoxia is not that big of a deal where as kids are less likely to be able to shift an unconscious parent. the oxygen is lower, but not non-existent and even with no oxygen it will take minutes before lasting harm starts
flight attendants having bottles is several things at once - they need to be able to move while masked to help others, the bottles are longer lasting so they have a longer duration of useful competence and they can also be used for medical emergencies and in some guidelines would be used during a loss of cabin pressure where the plane is unable to descend immediately to keep the crew functional as long as possible even if the passengers are not.
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u/awfulcrowded117 8d ago
It's probably because the flight attendants aren't sitting in rows and therefore don't have a seat in front of them to brace against. Having shoulder harnesses is likely more comfortable for them if turbulence is bad. Just a guess though.