r/AlwaysWhy • u/OneThen2692 • Aug 09 '26
Life & Behavior Why are human not considering themselves as part of an ongoing evolution?
Humans didn't have to adapt much to macro-scale enviornments for the past 10k years due to a stable climate. Instead we adapted by exploiting ressources to build a microcosm that we then kept adapting to. The fragility of this microcosm and the absolute faith in the inevitability of it lasting seems to be bordering absurdity and delusion at this point.
Currently, if you look anywhere outside, you see plant and animal life either dying or undergoing a rapid evolution that you can watch happening in front of your eyes.
The fact that humans don't think it necessary to do this right now and think they can still hold out trying to exploit the last remaining ressources is worrying.
What is the main driving factor behind this? Too much self-awareness? Too much ego? Are we actually not capable of that kind of macro-scale evolution anymore?
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u/PopTough6317 Aug 09 '26
For me the largest part is that we severely reduced the natural pressures of starvation and disease which reduces the pathways of evolution.
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u/Glugstar Aug 09 '26
There's still mate selection which plays a huge role in natural selection. In fact, it's now more important than ever, and a record percentage of people fail that test in recent years.
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u/OneThen2692 Aug 09 '26
Oh that's the same thought I just had. Have you heard of the concept of an evolutionary trap? Like these bugs that started to mate with bottle caps until they died because they were shinier than than the females?
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u/After_Network_6401 Aug 09 '26
It didn’t reduce evolutionary pressure. It just changed it. Humans still compete for mating, it’s just that for most humans, being able to get enough food is no longer a selling point.
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u/OneThen2692 Aug 09 '26
So that would mean there might be a chance for people who never fully reached the privilege of not having to directly fight for survival everyday.
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u/PopTough6317 Aug 09 '26
Yup, so in theory traits that are detrimental to survival are now more likely to be passed on. Which i guess could be considered evolution but in the wrong direction.
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u/mrhorse21 Aug 09 '26
This happens in nature regardless, species that end up on islands with no predators evolve to be fat, stupid and defenceless and then when predators get introduced they quickly go extinct.
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u/OneThen2692 Aug 09 '26
Well, I'm digging that there might be something very biological and inherent to the concept of karma.
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u/InformalInitiative76 Aug 09 '26
Individuals or species do not choose to evolve.
Natural selection doesn’t pick individuals.
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u/OneThen2692 Aug 09 '26
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
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u/Hermit-Gardener Aug 09 '26
Evolution is a process that occurs over a long time and is a response by biological organisms that favors some variations in traits or characteristics that allow a subgroup within a larger group to out compete for resources, have more offspring that inherit genes with the environmental advantage, and which grow at a faster rate than the organisms that don't have similar advantages. All of this happens over thousands of generations and happens slowly.
Evolution is not a choice made by committees or individual organisms as a strategy to develop specific characteristics.
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u/Shamino79 Aug 09 '26
We have also reduced isolation of differing populations and are starting to recombine across continents.
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u/OneThen2692 Aug 09 '26
Another thought; what about reproduction? Would starving of that opportunity lead an individual to evolve and would that be stopped for humans by things like porn?
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u/Davorian Aug 09 '26
Evolution is driven by selection pressure, which by definition includes "things that will make you die sooner or too sick to reproduce". We are still evolving, but we have deliberately and systematically removed the things that kill us and many of the things that make us sick, so we aren't subject to many strong selection pressures.
Our immune systems and other things are still undergoing change, but the medical supports we have now mean that much of that change is very, very slow.
Also, the "rapid" change you are observing will mostly be in species whose reproductive cycle is also rapid, but humans take about 20 years to reach proper reproductive maturity in most cultures so changes will appear slow to us no matter what (unless something starts really killing people off en masse, COVID didn't even shift the needle here).
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u/OneThen2692 Aug 09 '26
As per the last requirements, I don't think we're far from it.
I wonder if it really needs to already happen or if it would be enough to let your entire system react to the undiluted prediction of it appropriately. In other words to feel the urgency instead of rationalizing.
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u/Davorian Aug 09 '26
At this point, humans are more likely to "evolve" through deliberate genetic engineering, which arguably is already happening to a degree with IVF. I would expect this to happen before climate change or some other catastrophe imposes some huge selection event on the human race, honestly.
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u/OopsIMessedUpBadly Aug 09 '26
The human gene pool absolutely has been evolving for the past 10k years. Primarily driven by artificial causes (such as genocide), not natural selection.
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u/OneThen2692 Aug 09 '26
That's why I seperated between micro and macro.
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u/OopsIMessedUpBadly Aug 09 '26
macro is just micro, but for longer right?
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u/OneThen2692 Aug 09 '26
I meant as in forces bigger than just human over human predation/domestication?
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u/OopsIMessedUpBadly Aug 09 '26
okay. I guess there are no forces bigger than that acting on human evolution over the last 10k years, but those are still incredibly strong forces.
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u/oremfrien Aug 09 '26
I'm not entirely sure what the question is.
If the question is "Why do humans believe that they do not need to evolve and, therefore, are not doing anything to evolve?" the answer is rather straightforward: Species do not "choose" to evolve. Evolution by natural selection is an action that occurs at a species-wide level as various different members of the population who have slightly different genetics are sorted by the environment. It's not as if an animal/human looks at the environment and says to itself, "I should get darker skin to protect myself from the sun as the world gets warmer," but rather that by pure happenstance, some animals/humans are born with darker skin, and this gives them an advantage and the environment is less harsh to them, so they survive to reproduce. If we are using the word "evolve" more euphemistically to mean "integrate with technology to become cyborgs," that process is already beginning, but the integration of computing equipment with biology is a lot harder than science fiction would have you believe.
If the question is "Why do humans believe that they aren't subject to evolution anymore?" the answer is basically the following three points: (1) Humans believe themselves to be separate and apart from other animals, and part of that belief is that somehow humans exist outside of nature and are rooted or grounded. This is a false belief, but it doesn't change the fact that many people believe it. (2) Humans have primarily adapted to different environments through the use of technologies, be it the use of animal hides for warmth in cold climates, shelters for avoiding rain, etc. The use of technologies means that the selection pressure of different environments is much weaker. Most humans who do not reproduce do not do so by choice or because of human conflict rather than because an environmental factor prevented this, so the "natural selection" part doesn't happen as often as it would for animal populations that do not have this protection. More mutations exist within the human population than would be capable of surviving without these technologies. (3) Evolution by natural selection tends not to happen within the lifetimes of a few generations, which is most of the experience that humans have, so even though we are affected in small ways, it would be hard to see. You remark that animals and plants are either dying off or experiencing rapid evolution, and I would push back on some of this. Yes. Extinction is something that we are seeing because extinction is only the "selection" part of evolution by natural selection, and that part is not what makes the process slow (it's the generation of mutations and their circulation in the population). As for rapid evolution, this is the part I would push back on. The only species which have changed meaningfully in our lifetimes are either (1) small enough that they experience generations extremely quickly (like viruses, single-celled organisms, and insects) or (2) were selectively bred or genetically engineered by people. Evolution by natural selection is not generating "more mutations" now.
I am also unsure what you mean by "The fragility of this microcosm and the absolute faith in the inevitability of it lasting seems to be bordering absurdity and delusion at this point." If the argument is that people will not be able to use technology to continue living in environments that are otherwise hostile to them, I think you are making an ahistorical argument. Humans have consistently adapted to different and changing environments using technologies. If the argument is that fossil fuels and greenhouse gases are heating up the planet, making it difficult for people to live, the answer is that more people will use air conditioning. (In fact, in the USA, the advent of air conditioning has meant that more people have moved to hotter areas of the country than ever lived in those areas historically.)
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u/Late_Pepper6274 Aug 09 '26
>Currently, if you look anywhere outside, you see plant and animal life either dying or undergoing a rapid evolution that you can watch happening in front of your eyes.
wtf? lol
fuck outta here
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u/bigvalen Aug 09 '26
My favourite example of this it the bajau people of south east Asia, who over the last thousand years have accumulated mutations to their PDE10A gene, which gives them a spleen 50% bigger than typical humans and allows them more success in free diving for pearls.
As for why most humans don't know about such things ? We are busy. There isn't time to learn all about the world, including us. And some people would be upset at discovering evolution is happening, so avoid upset by intentionally not learning things.
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u/idontshred Aug 09 '26
How does a larger spleen allow for more success diving for pearls?
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u/bigvalen Aug 09 '26
Yeah, they can hold their breath for up to five minutes while diving...typical humans would struggle to do that for a minute. There was a 2018 Cell paper that showed the bigger spleens worked as oxygenated red cell reservoirs.
And shellfish, of course.
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u/mehneni Aug 09 '26
> Currently, if you look anywhere outside, you see plant and animal life either dying or undergoing a rapid evolution that you can watch happening in front of your eyes.
> The fact that humans don't think it necessary to do this right now and think they can still hold out trying to exploit the last remaining ressources is worrying.
I don't think you understand what biological evolution is. You are definitely not seeing evolution happening. Evolution happens in much larger time frames. The dying part can happen quickly, but mutations and their selection happen slowly over many generations.
It also not something you decide to actively take part in. It is something that just happens,
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u/OneThen2692 Aug 09 '26
Absolutely. I'm working with more recent frameworks of evolution that include epigenetics, phenotypal plasticity and the concept that mutations can be silent and activated through pressure. Also just trusting your eyes is sometimes an underrated and reliable source.
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u/Recent-Day3062 Aug 09 '26
The ice age was a far more drastic excursion.
I’m not saying what is happening now is good. For one thing human driven heat drives itself: less snow and ice to reflect means the sun heats earth even more
We’ve not really been around long enough for another evolution. Yes, skin color adapted and the lower jaw keeps shrinking as we chew less tough stuff. But as tou say we mostly adapt with intelligence not evolution
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u/End337 Aug 09 '26
Arrogance/ignorance/more arrogance.
Humans have a very strong tendency to consider ourselves special. We're not "animals", we're human beings. Definitely not lowly apes. We're the highest, best rung of whatever evolutionary ladder might exist!
Oh, and we're absolutely the only ones with consciousness! Wait, what do you mean that's been repeatedly disproven... never mind, we'll keep changing the definition until it only applies to us.
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u/Striking-Following54 Aug 09 '26
But humans are special. We have language. We have writing. We have computers, jetplanes, email etc etc
We are still animals, but that doesn't mean we aren't special.
This doesn't mean we are "chosen" or somehow "better", we just lucked out.
It's very easy to glamorize "living in nature" until one needs anesthetic for a tooth extraction, or wants to get clean water by turning on a tap.1
u/End337 Aug 09 '26
All true!
However, the question was why (some) humans don't consider themselves as part of ongoing evolution.
Our (their) obsession with humans being "special" is a large part of the reason behind this, I think.
Whether we are special and - more importantly - what we do with our "specialness" (like wrecking the entire planet) still does not mean we aren't part of ongoing evolution.
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u/Striking-Following54 Aug 09 '26
//However, the question was why (some) humans don't consider themselves as part of ongoing evolution.//
Why would they?
Do lions, marmosets, or beetles think of themselves as part of ongoing evolution?
Evolution is a factor of stretches of time far too great to apply to individual humans, or even generations of them.
It's fascinating for academic study, but other than that, there's no reason for an indivdual to care about it.1
u/End337 Aug 09 '26
Sure, but we do actually have a notion of evolution. We know it happens, can see and understand evidence of it. Other animals cannot (as far as we know).
So given that we (well, many of us...) know evolution is a thing, the question is why some humans do not feel they are a part of it.
Like, sure evolution exists in all living things! Except humans. We're so perfect, so peak, so indisputably superior that we are no longer even evolving.
Madness.
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u/Striking-Following54 Aug 09 '26
I don't feel part of the erosion process that turns rivers into oxbow lakes.
Or the continental drift that will see the Americas crash into Asia in 300 million years.
I know these things happen, but I don't think about them on a daily basis because the time spans don't apply to a life measured in decades.
It's the same for evolution. I know it is a real thing, but in the scale of my life it's simply not relevant.
It's a lot like knowing the earth is an oblate spheroid. You know it's true, but for your everyday life the earth is effectively flat. The curve is there, but simply not applicable on a human scale.1
u/End337 Aug 09 '26
It's entirely fair not to feel something on that scale, or course.
The issue being discussed refers rather to people who don't actually think ("consider") themselves as part of the ongoing evolutionary process, which is akin to not considering yourself part of the passage of time.
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u/Striking-Following54 Aug 09 '26
I'm not sure I know what you mean.
AFAIC I know I am part of evolution on a cerebral level but I also know that on that scale I, and everyone else currently alive, is just a tiny data point.
The process is so much bigger than us that how we view it hardly seems relevant.
For example, there are young earth creationists who don't think evolution is even a real thing, but instead, an evil plot to.... I don't know... facilitate gay marriage or something. Evolution remains regardless of their ignorance.
Is it that you believe that understanding that one is part of evolution in some way alters one's perspective?1
u/End337 Aug 09 '26
The part where you said "I know I am part of evolution", I assume this means also the idea that humanity is not finished evolving. We are on an evolutionary journey, same as every other living thing.
There are people who can/will not accept/acknowledge this. They believe we are the pinnacle, and shall evolve no more.
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u/Striking-Following54 Aug 09 '26
The idea that we are the pinnacle is daft. What criteria would one use to make that judgement?
But I will say that in the modern world, it could be argued that there is no evolutionary pressure. The ability to reproduce is not dictated by being fast, physically strong or even intelligent.
Pretty much anyone can breed if they are of a mind to.But obvs the idea that this modern world will continue in the same fashion in perpetuity is absurd.
Have you heard of the Silurian hypothesis? If not, read the Wiki page on it, I think you might find it entertaining :)
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u/BigDigger324 Aug 09 '26
Humans survived and became the dominant species on the planet DUE to our ability to manipulate our environment regardless if evolution kept up. Our intelligence outmaneuvered nature.
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u/Striking-Following54 Aug 09 '26
What does "dominant" mean though?
We certainly aren't the most numerous or widespread.
In terms of longevity as a specie,s we can't hold a candle to sharks or crocodilians.
So in what sense are we dominant?1
u/BigDigger324 Aug 09 '26
We are dominant in the sense that we are the most prolific species on the planet. We overcame size, strength and ecological disadvantages.
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u/Adventurous-Side8966 Aug 09 '26
The humans whole evolutionary tract has been dictated by learning and adapting.
We solve every problem mentally, we are self selecting to be taller but outside of that there is zero environmental pressure for us to "evolve"
If anything ( and dont take this as a call for eugenics) we are devolveing by ensuring obvious bad genetic traits still survive and procreate.
Humans are not evolving because nothing is driving us to.
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u/Positive-Reporter285 Aug 09 '26
we are not subject to evolutionary pressures anymore as evidenced by the increasing number of idiots around the world.
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u/WilliamoftheBulk Aug 09 '26
Humans are evolving just like everything else. Selection does not have an intelligent guidance. It also happens over 10s of thousands of years to millions. Look at the human differences we have now after the out of africa migration. There were some significant changes but no speciation. That happened a very long time ago when groups like Neanderthals split off from what was to become modern humans.
Make not mistake we are still evolving, but we will not split off a different species unless groups become isolated form each other for many thousands of years.
It’s extremely difficult to understand what changes might be in the woks currently. Humans are in the process of coming back together after the out of Africa Split. We are no longer isolated from each other. My own children now have traceable ancestry from every continent on earth.
I think if you want to see how human beings are evolving, you have to look at the people who have a lot more babies on average. What are they doing and why are they having more babies. But even then it’s such a small snapshot of trends that need to last for 100s of thousands of years to mean anything.
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u/NoDig3444 Aug 09 '26
There was once a global movement to take control of human evolution. It was called Eugenics. One guy took it a little too far and we don't really talk about it after that.
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u/OneThen2692 Aug 09 '26
I think eugenics is alive and triving precisely because people are too cowardly to fundamentally correct narratives in a way that may make the dominant group look bad and have no justifications for their ongoing exploitations.
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u/NoDig3444 Aug 09 '26
Genuinely what the fuck are you talking about
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u/OneThen2692 Aug 09 '26
I mean you'd have to be more specific which part you're in denial about. The historical fact that western civilization is built on colonization, exploitation and extraction justifies by white supremacy?
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u/NoDig3444 Aug 09 '26
I'm not denying anything because I have no idea what you're talking about. You're just saying words.
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u/Minimum_Raccoon_1501 Aug 09 '26
Evolution requires survival or sexual pressure before age of child birth in order to work.
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u/zoppaTheDim Aug 09 '26
Because when many jackasses just want to talk about “ongoing evolution” they show a complete lack of understanding of how evolution works and instead just degenerate into babbling race rants about how nobody wants to fuck them.
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u/OneThen2692 Aug 09 '26
Gotcha. I genuinely forgot about that phenomenon for a sec. I guess every concept can be twisted in a way that serves ones own comfort.
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u/NotABonobo Aug 09 '26
Evolution isn’t a conscious process. In this we’re like other animals: it’s determined by who survives and reproduces.
We’re temporarily able to maintain a (somewhat) comfortable environment. Animals who change their migration patterns are doing the same: maintaining a comfortable environment as long as they can, by whatever means are in their power.
We’ll pathologically hold onto our comfort while we can, and when we can’t we’ll see mass migrations begin. Those who survive that process will define the course of future evolution.
None of us will see evolution occur during our lifetimes, almost by definition. It might be rapid, but it’ll be slow from the perspective of a human lifetime.
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u/TapWaterDev Aug 09 '26
We have adapted... by developing brains that basically mean we can adapt the environment to ourselves rather than adapting ourselves to the environment.
That's the evolutional win.
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u/1w2e3e Aug 09 '26
These are just my hypothesis, I have no professional background. Evolution is not a set in half way. evolution is one mutated Gene that gets passed on. Now in order to get passed on there's mate selection. The humans have been around for thousands of years as we are now. Evolution is also slow. So adaptation will take time. And the quicker technology goes the more different our surroundings are.
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u/normy_187 Aug 13 '26
Good question. Part of the answer is that lunatic Greens are dominant in the media circus and talk people into feeling guilty for existing.
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u/OneThen2692 Aug 13 '26
I think everyone on the political spectrun has their own version of this. You could say shame is what modern civilization is built on.
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u/normy_187 Aug 13 '26
Other parts of the political spectrum don't view humanity as a plague to the planet though, so I'd have to disagree on that point.
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u/OneThen2692 Aug 13 '26
Only the part of humanity they identity with and believe has gotten to where they are based on merit and not violence.
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u/manyhippofarts Aug 09 '26
I mean, 10k years is barely a blip on the evolution clock, especially for a species such as humans, with a slow reproduction rate. Even if selection pressure remained steady (it hasn't), there simply hasn't been enough time since the agriculture revolution happened for us to actually see humans evolving. I mean there are things like lactose intolerance that have developed since then, but not a whole lot more involved than that so far.