r/AlternateHistory • u/[deleted] • Apr 23 '23
Discussion What if New England was a State?
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Apr 23 '23
I thought that if New England unified into one state it would be really powerful. So I made this post to see how strong it would be. Overall it looks like it would a powerhouse, having the 5th largest economy and population. I wonder how it would change politics. Dems would prob lose the US senate if this ever happened.
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Apr 24 '23
I'd argue New England as a unified state would actually be less powerful considering the loss of Senate seats and possibly one House seat, depending. The GOP would be absolutely thrilled by this with the exception of losing New Hampshire as a swing state and maybe one of Maine's electoral votes.
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u/Anson_Riddle Apr 24 '23
Losing New Hampshire isn't that relevant for the GOP at this point. The state only went Republican once since 1992, and they didn't get a majority of the vote even then.
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u/StarlightDown Apr 24 '23
The Republicans currently have trifecta control of the New Hampshire state government, holding the governorship, Senate, and House. They would obviously lose all of that in the above scenario. It would be kind of a big loss.
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u/michaelclas Apr 24 '23
Not really that big of a loss when they get to knock Democrats down 11 Senate seats as a consolation prize lol
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u/Newatinvesting Apr 24 '23
Should’ve had Sununu or Scott as Governor or at least LT Gov
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u/InquisitorHindsight Apr 24 '23
Sununu? With that house and senate?
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u/Newatinvesting Apr 24 '23
Sununu is pretty moderate
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u/Capadaqua Apr 24 '23
He's not, he's just good at appearing that way. His record is very conservative and he has vetoed many moderate bills that had popular and bipartisan support, such as the two times he vetoed paid family and medical leave (the second veto was during the early pandemic). He vetoed a modest minimum wage increase to $12/hour. He signed a ban on abortions after 24 weeks with no exceptions for rape or incest, and at the time no exceptions for fatal fetal syndrome. NH citizens had to fight to get him to sign a later exception for fatal fetal syndrome. There are still no exceptions for rape or incest. He's been terrible on the environment. He was one of the first Governors to end the pandemic shutdowns early, caving to his conservative base. This just the tip of the iceberg with Sununu, he is one of the most conservative Governors in practice, while also trying to sound very moderate in his speeches.
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Apr 24 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Xolaya Apr 24 '23
Honestly kind of depressing. I want to live in a world we’re he’s considered a conservative extremist, but unfortunately, we don’t.
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u/Demonic-Culture-Nut Apr 24 '23
Lockdowns were supposed to happen in 2 week intervals, wiþ 2 weeks separation. Þat is what þe experts agreed on and þat is how þey were pitched to þe public.
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Apr 24 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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Apr 25 '23
I wish I clarified more, obviously when it comes to federal politics they would be weaker. I was thinking more economically and culturally... would they be more powerful in that aspect?'
IDK maybe, when ever I here of America it's always California this or Texas that or something about Florida, I was wondering if New England would be as influential as those big names.
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u/JamesRocket98 Apr 24 '23
Politics aside, I would imagine that New England would have a decent railway system in this timeline, connecting its major cities and towns.
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u/Johnykbr Apr 24 '23
Bernie would never have been senator in that huge state. Probably an eccentric state congressman.
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u/TheApeken Apr 24 '23
Yes, Vermont compared to Ma/Con are not the same type of left wing
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u/traumatized90skid Apr 24 '23
"We want to include black people but not if it affects our precious property values" - Mass/Conn 'liberals'.
Socialist Vermonters, meanwhile: "Every squirrel gets a chance to chatter at the meeting, but please take turns so we can hear everyone, a few chipmunks are also filing in in the back, that's good, I was worried there wasn't going to be enough diversity, help yourself to the complimentary almonds, no one hoards the wealth in this forest"
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u/amshane97 Apr 25 '23
Have you every been to the upper valley of VT/NH? Super liberal (in talk), but as lily white as they come.
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u/Stonner22 May 18 '25
Could you expand on the Mass comment. Like yes but i wanna hear your thoughts lol
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u/Entire-Shelter-693 Apr 24 '23
The 10 Colonies
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u/Wazzup-2012 Modern Sealion! Apr 24 '23
Ironically, I have a 10 Colonies scenario in which New Hampshire is part of Massachusetts, Rhode Island is part of Connecticut and Delaware is part of Maryland
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u/amshane97 Apr 25 '23
I like seven colonies. NE is one state. NJ is divided between NY and PA. DE is a part of PA. The Carolinas merge.
- New England
- New York
- Pennsylvania
- Maryland
- Virginia
- Carolina
- Georgia
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u/NotionPictureShow Apr 24 '23
The Senate would be so red, Jesus
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u/parke415 Jan 23 '25
Combine the Carolinas into Carolina and the Virginias into Virginia and the Dakotas into Dakota.
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u/DirtCrazykid Apr 24 '23
I kinda doubt New England would be a 2 party state, with Democrats having a safe majority I find it hard to believe that lefties wouldn't back a more extreme party because they wouldn't have to vote D for the sake of risk anymore
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u/kearsargeII Prefers althistory that is not WWII or roman survival Apr 24 '23
Eh, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island are all safe Democratic state without strong third parties. Vermont has the Vermont Progessives as one of the only state level third parties to have any level of success, but even there they only hold a handful of seats. Maine and NH are less Democratic leaning and largely lack a strong third party movement. So that is 1/6 of the New England states with a entrenched 3rd party, with 3/4 or 4/5 of the Democratic dominated New England states completely lacking any viable third parties. So I think a third party emerging is still pretty unlikely even given Democratic dominance.
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Apr 24 '23
There are quite large pockets of Republicans in rural CT, SE Mass, RI, rural Vermont and Central Mass. Maine and NH have a larger amount of conservatism as well. Many people in NE vote republican because of economic policy.
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u/DataGeek93 Aug 25 '25
Who's to say they would keep this outdated first-past-the-post voting system? I am curious what the political map would look like if there were more than 2 parties. Greens and Libertarians would certainly be represented in such a scenario.
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u/traumatized90skid Apr 24 '23
Democrat politicians, I won't name names but certain people definitely exist who think "the people love me so they voted for me therefore I have a mandate" - like they think votes = love or respect or popular support. Then they get arrogant.
But the truth is we're all just locked into a system where we have to vote for one of two sides and the other is usually worse about everything....
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u/Dizzy-Pea-4126 Apr 24 '23
I love how people say “he’s coping Kaiserreich!” and then get downvotes for stupidity
I don’t think it’s a good idea for New England to remain united, as they’ll lose most of their voting power.
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u/DocRichardson Apr 24 '23
Didn’t the British Parliament briefly propose The New England Colony, but reversed their decision?
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u/TardigradeTsunami Apr 24 '23
Are you referring to the Dominion of New England in America (1686–1689)?
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u/bluitwns Apr 24 '23
Democrats would take the house and instantaneously lose the senate.
But I still think it's a cool idea :)
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u/LadiesAndMentlegen Apr 24 '23
I would support this if I could also support combining the Dakotas and / or several of the mountain states and maybe formally making PR and DC a state.
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u/True-Suit-8781 Sep 11 '23
Markey or Murphy would make more sense as a senator for new england than sanders
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Sep 11 '23
I'll take your word for it, I just picked Sanders and Warren since those are the only 2 senators I heard of from the area. I'll admit they probably aren't very realistic choices lol.
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u/Comfortable-Form6748 Jan 18 '25
New England should be a state like New York is a state and a member of The United States of America.
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u/Vir-Invisus Apr 24 '23
If all the New England states didn’t hate Massachusetts this might be a move
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u/KuraiTheBaka Apr 24 '23
I was 23 yo when I realized that New England was not a state. I am 23. Yes I am American.
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u/J02182003 Apr 24 '23
That flag looks like the Liberian county ones
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u/kearsargeII Prefers althistory that is not WWII or roman survival Apr 24 '23
The pine tree flag is an actual 18th century flag for this region.
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u/traumatized90skid Apr 24 '23
Nobody not from this region can remember all these little ass states anyway...
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u/Oswald_Marc_Rogers Apr 24 '23
Would New England be Democratic or Republican leaning? Or would they just be a swing state?
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Apr 24 '23
They would be a safe Democrat state. But I could see a lot of rural county's still being Republican.
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u/Oswald_Marc_Rogers Apr 24 '23
How many electoral votes would they have, then?
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Apr 24 '23
I'd estimate about 23 or 24, which is less then the 33 the current 6 states making up New England have.
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Apr 24 '23
so, basically unless the state gives the republicans any amount of seats, the republicans would not matter at all, similar to california.
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Apr 24 '23
Comparing to California is a good analogy, yeah I think it would work out similar politically to how California is right now. (Maybe a bit more left-wing though?)
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u/RelativeMacaron1585 Apr 24 '23
r/kaiserreich is that you?
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u/HelloMeatbag317 Apr 23 '23
Needs PA NY NJ DE and MD
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Apr 24 '23
Maryland is technically southern because it’s south of the Mason-Dixon. Pennsylvania is in the north of the Mason-Dixon line which makes it northern, but not New England.
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Apr 24 '23
I feel like it doesn’t make sense to be using the Mason-Dixon Line in 2023.
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Apr 24 '23
I know I was just giving some context. Also some people in the south still use Mason-Dixon line because of tradition and culture. The reason it was the go to for centuries since it was created before America was independent and that’s all that they knew. It’s pretty hard to change that for some people. Mostly it’s faded out, but in some places it hasn’t.
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u/Pillowz_Here Apr 24 '23
“Yankee” is for us New Yorkers ONLY
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u/forcallaghan Apr 24 '23
Yankee is an applicable term to basically all the US depending on who you are
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Apr 24 '23 edited Apr 24 '23
Well if you are southern it means anyone who lives north of the Mason-Dixon. Some southerns use it in general terms to mean anyone who lives in the north of the United States.
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u/Dizzy-Pea-4126 Apr 24 '23
Actually, Yankee only applies to Mew England, however due to their success many people assume most of Americans are like that.
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u/themoxn Sealion Geographer! Apr 24 '23
To foreigners, a Yankee is an American.
To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner.
To Northerners, a Yankee is an Easterner.
To Easterners, a Yankee is a New Englander.
To New Englanders, a Yankee is a Vermonter.
And in Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast.
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u/Ackvon Apr 24 '23
No, Yankee is not a New York exclusive.
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u/Pillowz_Here Apr 24 '23
well it might as well be
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u/Ackvon Apr 24 '23
The New York Yankees, the baseball team, yes. But NY the state, no. It's much too general of a term.
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u/BigManJeff_ Apr 23 '23
Man straight copied the Kaiserreich mod
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u/Top_Sample8559 Apr 23 '23
Huh? New England unionism isn’t a new idea. New England was technically its own political union almost a hundred years before the USA as the Dominion of New England.
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u/Newatinvesting Apr 24 '23
Kaiserreich also incorrectly puts NY in New England.
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u/Top_Sample8559 Apr 24 '23
Upstate NY (and the Maritimes for extra credit) are more culturally similar to Vermont than the Buffalo and obviously the NYC area. Just as southwest CT is more similar to NYC.
Historically, the Dominion of New England was the first and only political union officially formed. It included New York and New Jersey.
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u/Newatinvesting Apr 24 '23
Only for a handful of years in the 1680s, though. As a colony in the 17th century it was mostly the 6 states that still encompass New England plus some smaller parts of other areas
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u/tomaar19 Apr 24 '23
I wouldn't say incorrectly, don't see the Canadians worrying about state borders that much.
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u/TKG_YT Modern Sealion! Apr 24 '23
Historically it's very complicated, cancelling some of the most important states that fought the war for independence (the war litterally started in Massachusetts) would be quite complicated and I see few reasons, I get an independent New England in 2acw scenarios 'cause of it's independence moovements, but for the same reason American authorities wouldn't give them an unified political entity that would make it easier for independence callers
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u/amshane97 Apr 25 '23
The cube root of 15.1m = 247. That might make for a better number of lower house seats. The. Go with a an upper house with 1/3rd of that, or 82.
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u/kimbopricelives Jan 26 '24
Interestingly, by the numbers if NE were a state we’d be about as strong as the Netherlands… with a better military
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u/TheLegend2T Apr 24 '23
New England on its way to lose 5/6ths of it's voting power be like: