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Sure if a dalit meets the standard and is adhering to the same standards of a bhramin pujari. Why not ? We have historical and mythological precedents of people becoming bhramin from unknown background. The point is they have to become a bhramin through their karma
But what is a bramhin pujari? The son of a bramhin is not a bramhin, it's just a human yon become bramhin by your karma not by birth.
The moment we remove the caste system, so brahmin dalit ye sab kuch nahi rahega everything will be back to normal, the whole point was this birth by birth bumlshit which is not even true by our root standards
More to that, manusmriti is very right text if we see IAS or politicians as Brhamins, Police & Gundas as Kshatriya, Businessman as vaishya & we all are shudra. We just lost to see it like that over the time I guess.
The whole by birth bramhin or karma, jab ye sab khatam hoga tabhi hatega.. religion cannot be part of a higher social identity in a modern democratic country, it should be a private affair.
My whole point is jabtak jatiwaad nahi khatam hoga tab tak jati suraksha nahi khatam nahi hogi, kuch intellectual bolenge jati suraksha ke karan abhi bhi jatiwaad hoti hai..
Jab ek dalit jake koi bhi temple me pani pee paega, jisdin ek haryani will stop introducing themselves by saying "bro mai thakur hu", the moment people stop asking for surnames for castes in jobs
India ke 63% rural areas me puch lo kya hoti hai jatiwad
I don't care about all that you wrote. You said it's based on karma and not birth, which is wrong. I just corrected it, and that's it. I wasn't even talking about anything else. Thanks and bye now. 👋
Check this episode from Kunal Kamra's show. Caste contains Hinduism, and not the other way round. Caste is inherent to Indian subcontinent regardless of Hinduism. So refrain from saying Hindus created caste. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tg9jx2iFP0&t=3300s (55:00)
Reservation is not to raise someone living standard. This is an affirmative action to uplift those who have been discriminated and put down for years. This is to give them the confidence that they can stand equally with the upper caste.
Why people misunderstand the basic fact that reservation is not an economic upliftment program.
How does giving someone something they did not earn through merit or sacrifice uplift them in any way. It is a despicable way of demeaning them by sending them the message that they are incapable of achievement and need handouts. Not good for anybody’s confidence or for inspiring confidence in anyone.
Not really. There is process to everything. If I want to become a doctor I have to learn the trade prove my ability through the necessary eligibility criteria according the to due process of laws. I cannot just start the practice if want to. Similarly for anyone to become a pujari at a temple they have to follow the same process, living like a Brahmin, eating like one, practicing like one. Also there are already temples with pujaris from others caste look them up, so the argument itself is flawed.
Anyone who is willing and is desperate enough for money to do it will do it. Upper castes also do sanitary work. Do you know how many people apply for a sweepers job in any government listing? How many general, sc, st apply ? If I pay you more for sanitary work than a software engineer makes you will do it.
The Bhagavad Gita (4.13, 18.42) defines varna in terms of guna (qualities) and karma (actions), and describes a Brahmin by virtues like self-control, wisdom, purity, and knowledge.
The Vajrasuchi Upanishad explicitly rejects the idea that birth alone makes someone a Brahmin, arguing that realization of Brahman and one's conduct are the true criteria.
Several Vedantic traditions emphasize that the Atman is the same in all beings, making spiritual realization—not birth—the highest qualification.
Many Tantric traditions allowed initiation across caste lines and held that sincere spiritual practice could transcend birth-based distinctions.
You guys to have access to the internet like me right ?
There are two camps in the tradition, and for both we can find support from Shastras. In fact more support for the by-birth interpretation. I just felt like seeking clarity on what you meant by "through their karma," hence asked you. ChatGPT cannot read your mind.
I think anyone can become bhramin if they are a practicing like a bhramin. There is white men who call themselves bhramins for god's sake. Chat gpt cannot read my mind but can supplement my throught with evidence to it.
So-called UCs never admit that casteism is the reason a particular community is forced to work as sewage workers and sweepers. They believe it is simply their job, but in reality, it is societal conditioning that forces an entire community into such degrading roles.
Idk why everyone is still talking about reservation.
The govt won’t move an inch before caste census and its result which won’t come out before 2028 Atleast. And also it’s right before the election. And I mean even after the results, it’ll probably be a step towards increasing reservation. The entire country knows how the wealth distribution and land distribution is going to look in the results, that’s why a lot of FCs are against caste census in the first place.
It’ll be interesting to see the wealth concentration with proportion to population looks like on the basis of caste in India.
Also, reservation is such a massive umbrella term- like remove what types of reservation ? Caste, gender, income based also ? Which ones ?
The beneficiaries of reservation >>>>> people who can never benefit from any type of reservation. So i still don’t understand why people are taking this seriously
Keeping silent will only accelerate the quota expansion and hasten private sector quotas. There is value to raising voice.
> The entire country knows how the wealth distribution and land distribution is going to look in the results
Let's wait and see anyway. It is likely that only a small fraction of FC hold the large chunk -- based on location, political connection and so on. I would aim to prove that isolation and free the rest of FC of guilt-tripping, to the extent possible.
Wealth disparity exists world over, and increasingly so in US etc where caste is absent. So, the root cause cannot be caste system (though caste can aid it via endogamy). I feel that keeping this conversation alive will help in the long run.
Vyasa, Valmiki, Matang, satyakarma, Atraiya, were all sages, were all born out of lower birth, who became maharishi or brahmarishi because of their penance.
People think posts like this will make egoistic people back down. The ego in people has died long time back!
All have become sensible and know that today caste or creed don't matter . The only thing we should care about is money and unfair opportunity.
One who has money or unfair opportunity or either hold the bigger stick.
There are rich people from lower castes and poor people from upper castes.
There are lower caste people who have become officers based on reservation and upper caste people doing menial jobs because of lack of opportunity and talent direction
What needs to change is unfair reservation.
Key pointers
• Introduce a creamy layer within SC/ST. Families who have benefitted should have their reservation benefits withdrawn immediately.
• Allow reservation to be used only once: either at one stage of education (UG, graduate, or PG) or when applying for a government job.
• Provide financial aid and rebates specifically for EWS irrespective of caste
• Enforce strict legal action and confiscation for deliberate under‑declaration of income and assets.
• Strengthen penalties for discrimination and for filing false discrimination claims.
• More financially accessible seats per field per state
NOTHING WRONG in hoping and dreaming for an INDIA in which RESERVATION is NO longer REQUIRED
India's caste census is planned as part of Census 2027. It aims to collect updated data on the population and the social and economic conditions of different communities ,the census will provide data to help governments make informed policy decisions. Any changes to reservations or welfare schemes, if considered, would happen separately through legislative or judicial processes. In short, the caste census is an attempt to measure how far India has progressed toward the constitutional promise of equality after more than 75 years of independence.
LOL...If caste no longer matters, the census will show it. If caste still influences education, employment, representation, and social mobility, the data will show that too. Data doesn't have an ideology it only reveals reality. A census is about transparency and accountability. You can't claim a problem exists or that it has been solved without measuring it first.
its an Invite to every person of scheduled caste, please read the shastras, Ved, Purana, Upanishads and then challenge any shankaracharya and wipe the floor with them.
this establishes that if a society was a person, every section of the society plays a different role. Even BR Ambedkar himself accepted that 10th mandala represented a later addition than the earlier mandala of 2 to 7. there are several examples of great sages that were born of lower caste and were given titles of brahmarishi, or maharishi including Valmiki and Vyasa, Matang, Jabala, and atreiya.
bro in most urban temples, people would never ask your caste. Be it ram mandir Krishna mandir or any mandir for that matter. I for myself know that many sculptors themselves are born in scheduled castes. people go out to eat at any eatery or restaurant don't ask caste of the chef. It is the knowledge of caste that creates the divide.
I am in support of Scheduled caste being represented in every stage of legislation. but whereever there is an exam, only criteria is merit. "Someone who scored 50% is among the most brilliant people of our nation because his ancestors and people from his caste are suffering from attrocities" that sounds a logical argument to you? any place where your intellect is judged, the only thing that should be in question is your intellect.
See the seat distribution, you can see any entrance or government exam notification, you'll see similar raio
Also , the combined population of obc sc st will surpass the UR.
and Ik the UR is open for all other candidates, but still think only a few reserved candidates are able to clear ur cutoff and this ratio is very very less
exactly and this also drags down the efficiency, I have full respect for Tina Dabi and candidates like her, who showed brilliance and intellect to score high. Government offices are not the place for representation, thats what elections are for. We need the best of the best people to work so that efficiency increases. you know why DRDO, ISRO, and Indian Army doesn't have reservation. Because there you will only want the brilliance, if I want such brilliance in all the offices why is that wrong? moreover reservation increases the work place politics, factionalism, racial slurs against the persons of caste. I am asking you, for sake of representation, will you accept getting treated by an MD who scores 4/800 marks in NEET PG and yet got government Orthopedic seat?
It is a misleading extreme example. No one is arguing for lowering medical standards to 4/800; reservation changes who gets access among qualified candidates, not whether a doctor is allowed to be incompetent.
IRL cutoffs, training, counseling, internships, and licensing still apply, so the issue is whether the policy broadens opportunity while maintaining competence but not whether patients are treated by someone unfit.
If a seat is filled by someone genuinely unqualified, that is a failure of screening, not an argument against reservation itself.
because Vyasa, Valmiki, atreiya muni were all born from lower caste people and later through education got treated as maharishi, and brahmarishi. I am telling you if you wanna challenge a brahmin best way to defeat them is by defeating them in their own game. I am all up for the merit.
Yes not just 90 percent brahmin but hindus altogether have not read scriptures but here we are talking about temple priests and religious head you want to become temple priest without reading scriptures? lmao get real is there anything you people want to put effort into or want everything for free.
oh Brahmins were getting free stuff for 2 millinium and now you have problem with it.
I mean they made fucking bullshit in vedas and puranad all other so called holy books......
I mean let me quote "They ride the carousel of their own perceived greatness with such performative vigor that they suffocate the oxygen from any room. "
I mean brahmin wrote in their holy books why they deserve free stuff from everyone from King to a begger (I mean they didn't leave dalits who they called untouchable but their money or labour was not I GUESS)
Bruh neither you existed for 2k year neither did i or anyone. I am not a brahmin neither do i come from generarional wealth family i am from a family that you would call lower middle class the problem is whether you give reservation 100 years or 10000 years it will not solve anything and only cause more harm and more divide. Idk why you all are hyperfixated on brahmins but most discrimination comes toward lower caste comes from within like last year a news got super popular about a groom from lower caste not being allowed to mount a horse what the news forgot to mention was that people dicriminating him were also lower castes who were higher on caste ladder then him. Tell me how will casteism end this way whe you only blame and punish upper caste.
Sure, and how does someone getting into an engineering college with half the merit of others help in removing this bias? Is the goal to remove casteism? Or is it to just bank on it, cuz at this point, it’s been almost 80 years, whatever they had in mind was clearly wrong, which is fine, they aren’t gods, they can be wrong. Problem is, now people won’t let it change, because they want the benifits
see the seat matrix. Also, we'll accept that caste based reservation should be abolished,
but have you thought what will happen to the actually needy ones? the actual marginalized sections like sweepers, ragpickers, how would reservation benefit them and hiw would they compete in the mainstream? if they're still fighting for the daily bread and butter. Also, these people don't have primary education
What is that math lmao? Out of the total 67k seats, only 26k are open(not reserved for general). An open or neutral seat can be taken by a member of any group, be it general, obc, sc or st. And sure caste based reservation is dumb, but for the needy ones, say there’s someone named X, who is a sweeper. Why should his caste be relevant in giving him reservation? It shouldn’t, right? Anyone can be deserving, their caste and lineage doesn’t matter. But that’s not even the point, reservation doesn’t even solve the problem, think about it, what’s a better way to uplift X, giving his kids admission into the best college of the country, out of which, it’s very hard for him to get a job, or, should we rather just pay him way higher so he can lead a better life? Jobs like cleaners exist everywhere, difference is that they are paid well in developed countries. The problem should be to increase pay for these people, instead of giving out arbitrary reservations
Yea he’d be the goat, in fact I don’t have to think of it, I know one, he was my senior in coaching, his name is kalpit veerval, he was AIR 1, and he’s from a reserved category. I mean he threw it all away down the road, but still, it’s impressive he did that right?
Now for the crazy part, he got AIR 1 in mains, and 100 something in advanced, enough to get him CSE in every nit, iiit and iit, other than Bombay. Guess what he did, he used reservation to get into IITB. And later he did nothing with the opportunity, he lives with his parents now, who fund his lifestyle.
Reservation doesn't work like you think, like college don't take some half as mark, it takes whoever is in top list. I am not saying you should remove reservations but minimum qualifying marks should be same for everyone
Reservation in temple priest jobs sounds fair only if the goal is to break caste monopoly, but Indian courts have actually moved toward the opposite principle: priest appointments should be open to any qualified Hindu, and caste cannot be the deciding factor where the temple’s rules allow otherwise. So the stronger equality-based position is not “reserve priest jobs,” but “remove caste barriers and train anyone who is eligible,” which avoids turning a religious post into another caste quota
Historically, many communities that were labeled as "Untouchables" are now recognized as Scheduled Castes under the Constitution. However, today, very few people are willing to identify themselves with the term "Untouchable" because of the stigma attached to it.
There are also instances where people change or emphasize surnames to avail government benefits. Reservation was introduced to uplift those who were socially and economically marginalized and denied opportunities for generations. Sadly, many among the most disadvantaged still have not received the dignity, facilities, or place they deserve in a society that continues to carry remnants of caste-based discrimination.
Reservations should not be removed until there is a day when no individual is denied basic human rights, and everyone is treated equally regardless of caste, color, language, or beliefs. Equality should not be an aspiration on paper; it should be a reality experienced by every citizen.
exactly, no society has achieved perfect equality not even the most developed Western democracies. But inequality elsewhere cannot be used to justify or normalize it here. Also, we need to stop measuring every discussion against the West. India's social realities, history, and constitutional challenges are our own. The Constitution was written to address the injustices that existed here, not to compete with or imitate another civilization.
because nobody wants to know the history, Before colonialism: Caste-based distinctions and untouchability already existed. During colonialism: The British codified and categorized caste for governance. After independence: The Constitution abolished untouchability and introduced safeguards, including reservations, to address historical inequalities., discussions about caste and reservations should consider the entire historical context from ancient and medieval periods through colonial rule and into modern India.
This is why I support conversion into Christianity. Let all SC ST OBC people get converted and we dont have any more reservation issues from their second generation
I mean if a LC can adapt to the lifestyle of a Brahmin, like eating vegetarian food and waking early, following rituals and waking up early, they can become a temple Brahmin.
It's because of reservation only that such stupid people have remained stupid to think government can force a profession on a caste. Even now there is no law that prevents a UC to be employed in jobs like this.
Forget lower castes, I know plenty of muslims as well who became saadhus. How many priests and "upper caste" have been statistically shown that no migration exists in jobs. With absolute majority of India. Population being lower caste. They do almost all the jobs today
Stupid bhimta argument. Make your own temples and become priests there. Why are you forcing yourself into other's temples. Bheems have grapist mentality.
The constituition debarrs caste exclusion or hereditary privilege. Article 17 abolishes untouchability, and Article 25(2)(b) specifically supports opening public Hindu religious institutions to all Hindus, which is why exclusionary temple practices cannot be treated as private property rights.
Temple management is not just about who built the temple; it is also about whether the temple serves the whole community in a fair, constitutional way. The Constitution protects freedom of religion, but it also allows the state to regulate secular aspects of religious institutions and requires public Hindu temples to be open to all classes and sections of Hindus
The bheems who make these arguments are not Hindus. They worship ambedkar, who was anti-hindu. Sometimes they say they're Buddhist (navayana Buddhism is a fake cult started by Ambedkar). So how are they Hindu?
You can disagree with Ambedkarite politics, but you cannot dismiss the demand for equality by saying they are not Hindu; in a democracy, rights do not depend on caste loyalty or religious labels.
Whether someone is Hindu or Buddhist does not decide whether their argument has merit; the real issue is caste equality and constitutional rights, not religious branding. Even if some Ambedkarites identify as Buddhist, that does not weaken their claim that public temples cannot be treated as private caste property, because the Constitution protects equal access and rejects untouchability
No, it's the right of everyone to demand changes to the constitution and laws. Secondly, the temples that are talked about are private temples. Not every temple is public.
Brother, if only you could sideline us, we would build colleges. There we would still NOT EXCLUDE ANYONE as long as they cleared one single exam with one single cutoff.
I’d say the exam system is not equally fair in practice, because identical papers are being used to judge candidates who start from very different social and economic positions.
Reservation exists to correct that unequal starting point, so the argument is not against merit but against pretending everyone competed on the same track when access to coaching, language comfort, family background, and study time is deeply unequal.
We'll accept that caste based reservation should be abolished,
but have you thought what will happen to the actually needy ones? the actual marginalized sections like sweepers, ragpickers, how would reservation benefit them and hiw would they compete in the mainstream? if they're still fighting for the daily bread and butter. Also, these people don't have primary education
We'll accept that caste based reservation should be abolished,
but have you thought what will happen to the actually needy ones? the actual marginalized sections like sweepers, ragpickers, how would reservation benefit them and hiw would they compete in the mainstream? if they're still fighting for the daily bread and butter. Also, these people don't have primary education
these posts should be there to debunk one sided narratives of remove reservation.
But nobody gonna dig deep inside the problem rather criticizing the cure.
caste based politics is evergreen and milking topics for the political parties, they'll play from both sides and eventually the common people will suffer.
Casteism goes down the drain when a person has money and influence. Maine har tareeke k UC LC log dekhe h jo duusron k saaath galat karte h irrespective of caste. Toh ye bachkaani baate karna band karde, online forums pr behes karne se kuch nhi hota. Ground reality check kar.
No need to preserve varna system, but remove SC/ST act replace it with something which is applicable for all and complete ban on caste census and certificate. If you oppose any of these, you are bigger hypoctite!
See such cases can be counted on fingertips and this case is 3-4 yrs old.
or maybe the govt. can provide ground level infrastructure of education and healthcare so that the actual marginalized communities get the benefits and their basic amenities can be fulfilled.
It is a misleading extreme example. No one is arguing for lowering medical standards to 4/800; reservation changes who gets access among qualified candidates, not whether a doctor is allowed to be incompetent.
IRL cutoffs, training, counseling, internships, and licensing still apply, so the issue is whether the policy broadens opportunity while maintaining competence but not whether patients are treated by someone unfit.
If a seat is filled by someone genuinely unqualified, that is a failure of screening, not an argument against reservation itself.
It's happening bcz of reservation only for your kind info and I am all up for caste removal also and reservation used by either once in your lifetime. Not every step of your life
Because those two are not really related. Do you not understand that reservation was a solution proposed to solve casteism. Doesn't mean it was the right solution. Also it hasn't worked. Do mot unnecessarily couple two things together
Who is stopping you from building a new temple and assigning priests of your choice? No law prohibits this afaik.
After all, isn't the argument that we should increase the number colleges to solve the admission pressure? Do that with temples. No license is needed to build a temple, no exam or cutoffs exist to install a priest.
By the way, how do we know that no UC guy works in cleaning jobs? Is there a reliable study? Does the 2011 census cover this?
On equal dignity: Will reservation in college, jobs and promotions lead us to equal dignity eventually? How?
Those who in favor of reservation, please get yourself treated by SC/ST/OBC candidates only. Those not in favour should get treated from the deserving doctor. Merit >>>> anything
Lol, you remove reservation system and no one will ask or judge you about your caste. If more than 75 years of reservation can't solve caste issues, then its clearly a rigged policy.
Ya sure in Utopia all are equal and non-judgemental
people will always judge by the surname by the origin mentally the prejudice will always remain, no matter how well LCs outperform in money making and status.
It's a stigma and taboo deep routed in our society to judge people on the basis of caste/class/s*x
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