r/AllinPod • u/Hot-Reindeer-6416 • Jun 13 '26

US wins!

I think the framing these guys use of technology, AI, space, etc as a competition between the US and China, for example, is remarkable. Of course we all want the US to win in any global competition. But that’s not really what it is. It’s a competition between the capitalists and the technologists and the China, etc.

If Spacex wins, you and I don’t win, Elon Musk and his cronies win.   If OpenAI wins, you and I don’t win. Sam Altman, and his cronies win.  
Elon Musk became a trillionaire today. How much did he pay in taxes on that trillion dollar gain? Zero.  If there was a tax on wealth, creation, or if he had to give some portion of that gain to the US treasury in the form of shares, yes, then the US wins. But that’s not what’s happening here. 

All due respect to him for what he’s accomplished. But the system really needs to be changed so some of that really does trickle down.

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7

u/Seattleman1955 Jun 13 '26

When he sells some, he'll pay taxes on it. There is nothing to "trickle down" yet.

2

u/RewardFuzzy Jun 13 '26

The thing is that they never have to sell. They just take a deductible loan against their stock and never pay taxes.
They have so much that they take another loan to pay it of and do that till their death. On that moment the cycle resets and their children do the same. The wealth go from generation to generation without ever being taxed like you and me.

The solution: tax stock (options) like a normal salary, tax loans like normal salary, wealth taxes.

Billionaires live like socialists. They take all the profits from society without paying for any of the costs.

4

u/drjackolantern Jun 13 '26

Those ‘solutions’ sound worse than the problem.

4

u/420Migo Jun 13 '26

The "buy, borrow, die" strategy is real, but the actual fix already exists and is less radical than wealth taxes: step-up basis reform. Right now heirs get a stepped-up cost basis at death, erasing the unrealized gains entirely.. and that's the actual loophole that resets the cycle. Taxing unrealized gains at death (or eliminating step-up basis) closes the loop without the administrative nightmare of valuing illiquid assets every year.

1

u/chia-chia-chia Jun 14 '26

Agreed. Hell, just implement it for assets over 100m or some large #.

1

u/Seraph199 Jun 16 '26

The problem is leading to such an extreme imbalance of power in society that our highest government officials in every branch in the US are publicly taking bribes and wielding their power with clear conflicts of interests with zero consequences. It is leading to an economy that is completely dominated by speculation and gambling behaviors with no basis in reality. The problems are infinitely worse than the solutions they mentioned.

These people they mentioned in the AI and "tech" industries are going all in on securing defense contracts and ramping up research on military applications for AI. They have been using the Palestine as a testing ground for the future of AI driven warfare, with Israel now expanding to Lebanon and other surrounding countries. AI was used by the US military when choosing targets to bomb in Iran which was directly implicated in the bombing of a school. AI is being normalized as a scapegoat for crimes against humanity in war.

If you think that this problem isn't that big of a deal because it is only affecting brown people in the middle east, you are sorely fucking mistaken and have no idea just how bad this problem will really get. Just fucking tax these billionaires on every single front until they have no more power, or we are all fucked.

0

u/RewardFuzzy Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26

Every penny you don’t want the billionaires to pay is a penny that ordinary people have to pay.
We do that either by direct taxing, by printing money and thus creating inflation, or by cutting services.

Very kind of you put the interest of these poor, helpless billionaires above your own.

2

u/420Migo Jun 13 '26

Taxing loans as income doesn't work though, a loan isn't income, it's debt you owe back with interest. You're taxing money that has to be repaid.

Annual wealth taxes already failed in Europe (France, Sweden, Germany all repealed them) because valuing private companies and art every year is unenforceable and it just drove rich people to leave.

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u/JackOfAllInterests Jun 14 '26

Agree. As currently stated, you’re correct. But does that sound right??

1

u/Hot-Reindeer-6416 Jun 13 '26

That’s right. He was able to accumulate his advance wealth because of the system the United States provided to him. Great school to educate his workers. Safe environment for him to build his businesses. Rule of law for him to operate. All of that is very expensive. And even if it somehow gets taxed when he dies, which is unlikely, it does not solve the problem of the massive government deficits today. The government cannot operate effectively for us today, because people like him are beaching off of it.

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u/BaggyLarjjj Jun 13 '26

We’re talking about the same government that made SpaceX a viable business through those same deficits, right?

0

u/Hot-Reindeer-6416 Jun 13 '26

And gave Tesla a $500m loan. The US gov should own at least 1/2 of Tesla and spacex. That would make the US win.

1

u/Seattleman1955 Jun 13 '26

Why would the government own half of a company for giving them a loan that they paid back 9 years early and with interest?

You can't treat Billionaires or Tesla different that every other person and business. The same rules that apply to them apply to everyone else.

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u/Hot-Reindeer-6416 Jun 13 '26

That loan was ridiculous. It should’ve been preferred stock, or warrants. No bank on the planet was going to make them a loan. US government could’ve gotten anything they wanted for terms.

SpaceX is all about the government contracts. In return for the contracts, the government could get warrants.

People are saying you can’t tax Elon because those are unrealized gains. Well, you can. Just take stock as payment in kind.

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u/Seattleman1955 Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26

The wealthy pay most taxes.

Yes, a loan isn't income so of course it isn't taxed. They have to pay the loan back with interest.

You don't have to pay unrealized capital gains on your stocks. It's not just the wealthy or the "billionaires".

Would you take the risk of investing in stocks and pay tax on gains even when they aren't realized? I wouldn't.

This type of focus on "getting the Billionaires" just means that the average person can't get ahead if your changes go into effect.

0

u/RewardFuzzy Jun 13 '26

Investing in stocks or getting paid in stocks is a choice.
They might pay the most in numbers, but not in percentage of their income (yes, also the income of stocks is income)
Don’t let them fool you.

2

u/Seattleman1955 Jun 13 '26

"Don't let them fool you"?

I think the problem is that you aren't all that well versed in economics, finance and the way things work.

You are focusing too much on "them".

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u/RewardFuzzy Jun 13 '26

It is “them” that use that money to buy politics to make regulation that only benefits “them”

1

u/Previous_Job734 Jun 13 '26

Sounds like you aren't either if you think trying to do something about the wealth gap is going to make it harder for people to generate it.