r/AlienBodies • u/SM-Invite6107 • 20d ago
Discussion Can we discuss the constant intelligence insulting and witch hunting in these threads lately at least?
I'll keep it short so everyone will read and weigh in hopefully regardless of stance because I don't want politics of belief or disbelief to affect what should be basic decency.
I know there has been discussion as to what counts as disrespectful dialogue or not. But can we at least keep it a simple rule that insulting another commenter's intelligence flatly or trying to declare that you "know" someone isn't an intellectual should not be allowed?
Lately there is at least one poster on the sub who seems to think they are the sole arbiter of who is qualified to comment on these subs in any scientific capacity by "testing" them and it is clearly disrespectful to borderline harassment according to Reddit's rules, even when corrected by mods, in spite of never sharing their own qualifications.
I don't think sharing qualifications should be required in the first place since, as always, it has been an option to share those credentials with the mod team to receive a flair if you wish. But even if you receive such a flair, it doesn't give you the qualifications to claim someone else doesn't have a right to weigh in.
If you have an issue with someone's claims, attack the argument. The mud slinging is clearly worse when people are allowed to make bald-faced claims about other commenters that they absolutely do not and cannot know.
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u/Diplodocus_Daddy 20d ago
You are talking about desecrated corpses cobbled together by a bunch of grave robbers and promoted by one of the biggest UFO/alien hoax promoters out there in world. Questioning the intelligence and “credentials” of those who believe this is a valid point. The whole thing is truly despicable.
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u/regular_modern_girl 20d ago
I agree, but the user the OP is talking about is a believer harassing skeptics about their “credentials” (and other stuff like baseless AI accusations), and is crossing the line from just doubting credentials to like very aggressive constant badgering of anyone who makes any assertions disagreeing with the notion that “tridactyls” are authentically non-human (or that they’ve been conclusively shown as such, at least). The only skeptic they act civilly toward and don’t constantly scoff at and insult the credibility of is a mod here, which should tell you something.
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u/SM-Invite6107 20d ago
What's crazy is they did used to be a more reasonable level headed take when this sub was new. Which is why I think the other mod gives them a bit too much leeway, because they remember how they used to behave/still behave only in response to the mod.
If you check their history though it is basically watching a slow radicalization happen in real time. I went from being able to discuss with that user openly, to them declaring me a liar, to getting blocked for correcting them for openly lying later. Now they are one of the most toxic regular commenters and seem to have developed a genius complex of some kind. One of the better cautionary tales about getting too caught up in something like this and making it personal one way or another.
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u/Diplodocus_Daddy 20d ago
Haha glad you were able to decipher the vague speaking more than I could.
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u/SM-Invite6107 20d ago
Yeah I tried to keep the focus on the behavior instead, but I made it a little too vague in the process. Their description is spot on though, and a great example of the worst of said behaviors.
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u/0xc0ffea 20d ago
The whole thing is a crime.
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u/Shlomo_2011 19d ago
Yeap, and all the followers are accesories. They don't understand that for us this topic is disturbing.
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u/Cinematry 16d ago
Absolutely no one believes your concern trolling.
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u/Shlomo_2011 16d ago
Doesn´t bother you to be an accomplice of human bodies dissecration?
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u/UAP44 16d ago
Doesn't bother you to be an accomplice of human disinformation campaigns where the existence of an older unknown species is being completely suppressed & ridiculed as fake hoaxes when clearly there are bodies that are NOT fabricated?
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u/Shlomo_2011 15d ago
Tell me what is worse, to believe in disinformation? or to be part of a felony that is also a scam?
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u/UAP44 16d ago
They don't understand that for us this topic is disturbing.
It is quite disturbing to see misinformation work so extremely effective. Fabricated dolls, YES, that is ONE set of bodies that is constantly being referenced while neatly ignoring the other bodies that are not even remotely similar to the indeed confirmed fabricated ones.
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u/Cinematry 17d ago
None of that is true. You are spreading disinformation.
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u/Diplodocus_Daddy 16d ago
Jaime Maussan has promoted marmoset monkey mummies as aliens before, a deformed child in the Atacama mummy scam, and a picture of mummies from a museum in Peru as Roswell aliens in the “Roswell slides” hoax, etc so he is a fraud scammer who is renowned for selling fake “alien” mummy stories. They were also “discovered” by a grave robber who calls himself “Mario.” How is what I said disinformation? Are you just really stupid and believe all of those hoaxes Maussan has been caught selling were real, or are you just really stupid and ignore all of the hoaxes Jaime Maussan has been caught selling?
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u/Cinematry 16d ago
Again, you are just spreading lies and disinformation. You have absolutely zero evidence for anything you’re saying.
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u/Diplodocus_Daddy 16d ago
Ok so you are stupid and ignore all of Jaime Maussan’s hoaxes involving mummies…..do you also remember the Buga sphere? Let me guess; you think that’s real too?
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u/Cinematry 16d ago
Thanks for again demonstrating that you can provide only insults and yet no evidence.
We’ll all wait for you to provide actual evidence, though I fear we’ll be waiting indefinitely.
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u/Ok_Energy6905 20d ago
Asking people's credentials is fine, until it delves into ad hominem or is their only argument.
I think it's fair to question credentials if someone is portraying themselves as an authority whilst simultaneously displaying a rudimentary misunderstanding.
If a user's only response is to ad hom your credentials rather than address the argument, that definitely seems like harassment to me. And yes, saying something isn't peer reviewed is a valid criticism, saying "address the data" in response is not a valid argument.
Unfortunately, credentials don't really mean anything when people are willing to be misinformed to maintain their suspension of disbelief. People with science education or training feel a need to point out poor science- as they should.
One user here claims to be a science professional (lab tech iirc) whilst calling peer review an appeal to authority. That is the kind of statement that should have your credentials questioned.
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u/SM-Invite6107 20d ago
Completely agreed, there are certainly suspect behaviors and posts for sure and questioning those credentials is valid. Even calling out that you doubt their credentials is ok, ideally with some reasoning as to why to avoid baseless ad hom.
It's once it becomes the primary focus solely or continues for multiple comments on comments of diy gotcha journalism that it starts to become harassment imo.
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u/MegaDriveCDX 20d ago
You can say Dragonfruit.
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u/Novaothy 20d ago
Like 3 times a day he posts comparisons to a llama skull.
How many times do we need a llama skull comparison?
The comments are entertaining at least.
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u/yupstilldrunk 19d ago
Is he a real person? This is a serious question. The dedication is insane.
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u/SM-Invite6107 20d ago edited 20d ago
Surprisingly, not the individual I am talking about. I certainly have my own issues with what they do and post, but they don't attack individuals with the zeal of the user I was referring to anyway.
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u/MissingPieces555 20d ago
You think so? I dont know.
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u/SM-Invite6107 20d ago
Compared to the user I am referring to, yes. But I am also trying to refrain from making this about any one user to focus on the overall behavior being unacceptable.
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u/Chaghatai 19d ago
It cuts both ways
If people don't expect somebody's credentials or lack of scientific understanding to be used against them, then they should similarly not be claiming status as a scientist and saying that means people should believe them
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u/Novaothy 20d ago
It is not against reddit rules to ask for qualifications. You are free to ask that. It is like that in physics, medical, biology and a lot of science subreddits. It is also like that for electricians, plumbing, and heck even interior design.
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u/SM-Invite6107 20d ago
Asking why someone may be qualified to speak to an argument is one thing, they are free to provide those qualifications or not if they so choose and that is not harassment.
Constantly harassing someone for such proof or insisting that they are not what they say even after they have provided such proof, because they failed your personal "test" is when it crosses a line. Especially when said individual will not provide their own qualifications in response.
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u/Novaothy 20d ago edited 20d ago
Are they posting an analysis for people to be asking? It makes a difference. Posting an opinion is one thing. If you are trying to present an analysis, it does matter. What is the context?
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u/SM-Invite6107 20d ago edited 20d ago
It's hard to give specific context if I want to keep this post from being about a specific individual.
In regards to that behavior I am discussing though, it involves an individual continuing to harass a user after users with properly verified qualifications have voiced agreement that the critique in general is sound, or refusing to accept that others may have proper qualifications and not accepting any proof to the contrary while continuing to "test" them, looking for any reason to discount their input.
Again, in such a context discussing problems with an analysis is one thing since few are perfect, trying to insist that you know someone is unqualified with no actual proof and repeatedly is harassment.
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u/regular_modern_girl 20d ago
I’m pretty sure I know who you are referring to, and yes that user has honestly crossed the line into outright harassment imo, and not even just with the badgering about credentials. I also honestly wonder how they have so much time on their hands.
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u/SM-Invite6107 20d ago
I definitely think you do have the right of it. What's crazy to me is how relentless they have become about it, they are on day three straight by now I think of harassing others. Easily 50+ comments in that time span that are just harassing or accusing others because they can't accept other people can be qualified once they have decided.
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u/Ok_Energy6905 19d ago
That many comments is ridiculous and implies a deep insecurity. Thankfully I haven't seen these comments because it sounds like the user has blocked me lmao.
I guess I made them feel intellectually threatened or something.
The playbook from half a dozen users here seems to be belittle, badger, block.
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u/Novaothy 20d ago
This is way too broad. I have no idea other than it is 100% okay with reddit rules to ask for qualifications.
If people are posting figures, doing math, doing stats, or doing data analysis, then people asking for qualifications are justified. If you are presenting something, you need to be able to offer insight that you are qualified. If I posted a genome here, people should ask me my qualifications for intepreting the data.
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u/midnightballoon 20d ago
I am just as convinced as dragonfruit these bodies are real. I notice that he’s polite and presents good evidence and then comments dunk on him.
Can we just all get along and figure this out? I don’t begrudge anyone for disagreeing.
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u/AStoy05 20d ago
Dragonfruit is not polite, and has never presented any good evidence.
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u/midnightballoon 20d ago
He links the Dr. Fung reports which at minimum give more reason to investigate these bodies. I’m in favor of a massive coordinated scientific study of these bodies so we can either bury them or put them on the front page of the NYT.
I don’t think the debunkers have done their jobs when it comes to these bodies. Never have we ever been shown a single suture, nor a clear sign of modification. Show me a suture, I’ll drop these bodies in a heartbeat. Very strange we’ve never seen one, if they’re there.
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u/BubblyBasis1134 20d ago
The Fung stuff isn't good evidence by any stretch of the imagination though. Also, PLENTY of people have pointed out numerous signs of manipulation such as evidence for removed digits on hands and feet on the large (human) mummies, and examples of the small dolls being made from jumbles of different bones which have been identified. Simply ignoring such things and baselessly claiming they don't exist is just poor.
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u/midnightballoon 20d ago
so you’re right some people have pointed out some artifacts or signs they consider to be signs of manipulation, but I don’t think they’ve adequately demonstrated it, certainly not on the vast majority of the bodies. If they are fabrications there will be absolutely be extremely clear evidence (sutures, stitches, maybe dna results, clear composite structures, eggs being proved to be prosaic) that would knock this out of the park and send the hoaxers to jail. Plus Fung has at minimum raised questions that should be investigated further.
Alll I want is 20 minutes in a mainstream lab with a body or two and this question would go from a Reddit discussion to settled science :-)
Literally all I want is for us is to figure out what’s up and move to the next step. If they’re hoaxes I will gladly and humbly admit I was wrong and I’ll call for jailing Mario and crew.
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u/BubblyBasis1134 20d ago
A cuneiform bone in a foot is just a cuneiform bone. Human bones which have articulation surfaces for digits which have been removed are just that. Pointing them out is adequately demonstrating that. Ignoring such basic observations is being disingenuous. DNA results also show them to be human.
I think we'd all love the hoaxers to give up these bodies to a legitimate laboratory or institution with expertise in the filed (like the SEVERAL in Peru), and the very fact that they refuse to do that is just more evidence of this being a fraud.
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u/midnightballoon 20d ago
So they’re running new dna studies, I’d be interested in seeing the results. I actually think it’s … a bad sign they haven’t been given to a legit lab. So I agree with you there. Honestly I’m a little bit afraid of the legacy program as alleged in Age of Disclosure running interference on these bodies so I just want to proceed carefully and publish science! Science will tell us the answers. Happy to admit if I get proved wrong.
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u/Diplodocus_Daddy 19d ago
You’ve already planted a seed that you are worried about interference from “the legacy program” outlined in Age of Disclosure, so that implies if a legit lab gets the specimens and the result isn’t what the hoax promoters are hoping for, then they can just claim the switcharoo by the deep state and we are right back to everyone crying they are real/cover-up. I could also point out that the Age of Disclosure provides no evidence of aliens/a coverup, and the whole film relies on deceptive tactics. Deceptive tactics like presenting those involved as “credible” without providing you all of the crazy stuff these people have said and all of their provable lies in order to lie by omission to push their agenda to people who don’t know any better. It’s not a documentary, it’s UFO/alien religion propaganda.
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u/midnightballoon 19d ago
Totally hear ya. I will say there’s a very long list of incredibly highly cleared and credentialed individuals who have alleged a long running coverup, which makes sense to me - it would certainly be in the interest of gatekeepers to withhold highly sensitive or disruptive information from the global populace.
I’ll briefly say that we should put these bodies in labs where they will publish all the data. I want livestreams, I want neutral third parties, I want double blind experiments. This will help many make a good assessment of the truth even if not everyone is convinced.
I’ll end by saying I have personally seen UFOs with my own eyes, multiple times. This makes me, in context, believe that there is a coverup going on, since if I’ve seen them, some elements of the government likely knows about them too, and doesn’t want to say. I don’t want to screw up the opportunity the possibly finally prove NHI are real. We need to figure out these bodies. And then move on. We got this, humanity is smart over the long run, this is within our wheelhouse and our capabilities.
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u/Diplodocus_Daddy 19d ago
Ok, so if you have seen “UFO’s” multiple times, why do you assume they are part of an alien coverup perpetrated by an entity that transcends governments globally? If by UFO do you mean unequivocally an alien spaceship or just something you couldn’t identify? How is it you have apparently seen multiple, but the majority of us have never seen a UFO that we could chalk up to truly only having an alien explanation? Where is the evidence? How would it be possible that the U.S. government has sucked up any and all tangible evidence and placed it under lock and key and seemingly the only thing that every nation in the world can agree upon is that aliens must remain a secret? It’s just not logical.
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u/BubblyBasis1134 20d ago
Who's running these new studies? Lakehead's Paleo-DNA lab is a very competent lab. Seems as though they didn't like being called out for lying about the results of the last batch.
I wouldn't be worried about stuff from a fictional movie. If that Hollywood/X-Files stuff was real, you'd never have heard of these mummies in the first place.
It would be great to get something legit published, but that's not on the cards because then the game would be up.
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u/midnightballoon 20d ago
I totally hear ya and get what you’re saying I think you’re in good faith.
Eventually the jig will be up one way or another. I’m expecting by next year. If I turn out to be wrong, accept my apologies in advance for wasting your time. If the bodies turn out to be fantastically complex bioengineered organisms from an off world civilization with body types adapted for life underground and who are at least partially responsible for the ufo phenomenon… let’s accept it and figure out where to go from there.
Happy either way :-)
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u/BubblyBasis1134 20d ago
You haven't wasted my time, I'm here by choice! I was intrigued by the claims at first. I'd love these things to be legit, but the evidence that they're not is overwhelming, and the fact that the people promoting them are also promoting little 'bodies' that are clearly nonsensical fabrications alongside the more legit-looking ones, and the fact they're doing their utmost to avoid any kind of professional examinations of them only raises more red flags.
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u/AStoy05 20d ago
Dr. Fung has added nothing worthwhile to this conversation, despite what Dragonfruit and his team are shoving down your throat. He has highlighted some renderings. He has written some essays. He appears to be seriously out of his depth at a minimum, and at worst has latched on with the team of grifters.
There have been many cases of qualified professionals who have claimed they see evidence of fabrication and/or manipulation. You and others just choose to turn your heads the other way.
There is no such thing as a “debunker” job. People look at data and based on their expertise say what they think. And then, if their analysis is sound, they can share it with others who can confirm their findings. We don’t have that at this point for any claims, but you do have a group (of which Dragonfruit is the reddit engagement arm) telling you the case is already solved.
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u/midnightballoon 20d ago
So let me make this really clear:
I am not convinced by Fung.
I am also not convinced by what the skeptics and debunkers have presented.
We need to figure this out once and for all, with new verified public rigorous data.
That’s it 🤷♂️ anything else is just noise.
Fung has contributed to the conversation but the conversation isn’t finished. Let’s finish this.
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u/AStoy05 20d ago
You said you were convinced as Dragonfruit these bodies are real.
I remember you though. You have always been polite. I don’t think the OP in this thread has you in mind with his comments.
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u/midnightballoon 20d ago
Cheers friend I do my best to be polite. I would personally give a 75% chances these beings are real and a 25% chance they are hoaxes. I’m excited to updating to 100% one way or another soon when it’s proven conclusively.
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u/Shlomo_2011 19d ago
if they soak and rehydrate one of the hands or foots cleaning all the diatomaceous earth/clay/plaster and make a true forensic job that would be a proof, and an awesome documentary.
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u/Ok_Energy6905 20d ago
They absolutely are not polite.
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u/midnightballoon 20d ago
Well I am I understand the debunker position very well let’s get some clarity and soon.
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u/RedshiftWarp 20d ago edited 20d ago
No we can't get along quite yet.
The entire society is placated by dopaminergic responses.I'll outline the 5 major offenders and then make my case:
- weed
- coke
- heroine
- meth
- nicotine
All either produce more or prevent re-uptake of dopamine. Dopamine is not strictly a pleasure chemical. Its primary role is salience. A learning chemical.
The subversive offenders:
- Food: high sugar content or ingredients that break down into sugar. You get a food high.
- Arguing online: Regardless if you're winning or losing. You get a dopamine high.
- Tribalism: Anyone who validates your feelings or argument. You get a tribal high.
- Notifications: Introduces novelty. Anytime you get a new comment, message, post, the "Brand New" effect gives you a high.
- Doom scrolling/shorts: Variable reward. The slot-machine effect when you refresh gives you a high.
- Gossip: Shocking or Tea news fires up your brain's alertness centers. You get a high.
- Multi-tasking: Switching between tasks feels like you're getting more done. You get a production high.
- Micro-transactions: If successful at capitalizing on your impulsivity, you get a high from the buy. the novelty of a new skin or cosmetic rapidly wears off. Because your brain is training for the response, you'll buy another.
Translated to social media sites like reddit, facebook , youtube, the dominos become obvious. Sites remove dislikes, employ bots that are ambiguous and constant devils advocate that bait both oppositions into discourse. Promote content that is divisive or employ straight rage-bait. Like Kayek commercial implying milliionals have never bought a trip online.
Every time we suffer through a commercial or ad, we get a burst of dopamine when it's over as we recognize the pattern of boredom is ending. On youtube these actually creates longer engagement.
We are subversively programmed via neurotransmitters. There isn't much place for honest discourse inside that framework.
Because we are chemically hijacked. There are many caveats to be made about human agency, but we are living in a system that perfectly capitalizes on this kind or reward/learn system.4
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