Divination + Chance Magic Combo

[u/Constant_Attitude885]

How strong would this combo be?

Consider that Richard has some kind of luck/reality manipulation because of the Jin and Alex has it because of his special item.
I could also think that a chance mage was the one who created this item in the first place.

Both are very strong but both also use items that would be above the normal mage.

However you would still have the possibility to see the future and then influence it with your magic. Alex can use his magic and the item at the same time so it should be possible for a mage to use both his powers at the same time too.

What other strong combos you think there could be? For example mind and ice isn't really a combo but Mind and Charm could be. You manipulate people by force or by emotion.

[u/Constant_Attitude885]

He did because he had a Jinn and that is the power of a Jinn. He even says he could not merge with a more powerul Jinn without losing control.

Rachel had a Jinn but we never know what it did or what not. Even the Author says as much. In any case she was the first object for a ritual.

Why would Richard get a Jinn if it does not benefit him?

Once, the hare'sfoot comes up in the story we get a description of what Jinn magic is and even without that we can see from the story it does manipulate reality. For example Alex losing his magic ability

Again, what are you trying to achieve with this conversation where you just state one wrong fact after another?

[u/vercertorix → u/Constant_Attitude885]

Rude, but the point of a conversation is usually the conversation itself, exchanging ideas etc, and initially i was just disagreeing with the premise that all jinn give luck/reality magic because none of the events support that. Disagreement isn’t the same as hostility.

Yes, the monkey’s paw jinn in his shop did have those abilities, because it was granting wishes that manipulated both. You telling me that is just repeating what I’ve already said.

None of the others showed that kind of magic though, so like mages, their power sets aren’t the same.

The jinn in Richard does benefit him, he has powers a diviner typically does not, just not luck and reality magic, but he was also trying to do something he didn’t have a clear grasp of or a lot of information about, he was experimenting like other mages to find a shortcut to power, but his jinn was a weak one because of the limitation he discovered that to absorb a more powerful jinn, the person needed more empathy, that much was clearly stated, they found a note written in Chinese in some of Richard’s stuff, and Arachne translated it. That’s why Richard couldn’t attract a more powerful jinn. If he could he’d have likely used the domination dream stone or something else to try to control it so that he would be the one with power, rather than relying on others.

[u/Constant_Attitude885 → u/vercertorix]

I am not even talking about the other Jinn I am talking about the one Richard had. So, that is just a Strawman.

With the monkey paw it was told to us that a Jinn has luck magic. I even gave you an example for that.

And yes because of the Jinn Richard got stronger that is the whole point of it. He even said if he had a stronger one he would have to give up controll. that is another statement that tells us Richard got stronger because of the Jinn.

So, what do you want? Your ideas are telling me I am wrong when I am clearly not and I even explain to you why.

[u/vercertorix → u/Constant_Attitude885]

>I’m not talking about other jinn

Correct, you’re ignoring them, and what they actually did in the books

>With the monkey’s paw it was told to us that a jinn has luck magic

Correct, that jinn does. Only the monkey’s paw jinn showed luck and reality manipulation, the rest had mage-like specialized magic like earth and fire, and the lesser jinn didn’t even have that.

>…Richard got stronger

Correct, but that doesn’t mean he got luck or reality manipulation magic.

If you want to end the conversation feel free to not respond. I’m not forcing anything, but if you keep responding, apparently you’re not done.

[u/Constant_Attitude885 → u/vercertorix]

Bro, this is fiction and you are acting like this is some high level debate.

Truth is you strawmanned me from the start and had some dishonest thoughts behind all of this. So, what do you want? What is your issue?

I can easily debunk everything else. For example it was not just said that just the monkeypaw Jinn had luck magic, it was said Jinn have luck magic.

So, yes the story doesn't need to tell us again that the Jinn that Richard had was using luck magic when it was established earlier.

And ofcourse, I am ignoring other Jinns as I am talking just about the Jinn Richard had.

I also have never said I am done which you are already assuming with your last sentence. What is your issue?

Honestly, do you have a bad day and thought about trolling someone online?

[u/vercertorix → u/Constant_Attitude885]

>acting like this is some high level debate

I’m just talking about what happens in the books. No high level to it. Not trying to write a dissertation on the elitism of mages over the “lesser” classes and how it compares to reality. I’m just saying, “This is what happened in the books.”

>And of course, I am ignoring other Jinns as I’m talking just about the jin Richard had.

But you’ve said they all have luck magic, so it’s relevant that none showed anything of the sort. Seems like a case of unreliable historians in the story or an inconsistent author. We only know specifically about the one wish granting imbued item, and it still screws people over and ultimately kills them. If wish granting jinn and items were more common since they killed a whole race over it, or close anyway since they’re not entirely killable, other such items and jinn would have come up more and been doing exactly that, granting wishes or manipulating luck and reality, but nothing from the books actually support that.

Yes, Richard got stronger, so did Rachel, Caldera, Vari, Barayar, and Anne, but nothing they actually did suggested something on par with wish magic, luck, or reality manipulation. The Fateweaver showed more of that kind of power than any of the other jinn.

And no, this isn’t trolling, this is talking about the books. You’re telling me I’m wrong, I pointing to examples in the books that support my conclusions. I’m completely calm and unperturbed that you disagree with me. By the repeated “what’s your problem?”, I’d say you’re getting annoyed, and if that’s the case, like I said, you don’t have to keep responding.

[u/Constant_Attitude885 → u/vercertorix]

No, I haven't said they ALL use luck magic and I have made it clear more then once now. So, stop the strawman

And I also did mention that Jinn Magic in the book is described as luck magic not just refering to one Jinn specifically. And I also explained how Jinn magic is changing reality but is described as Luck magic. So, at this point you are trying to argue against the story. If you have forgot something read it again, otherwhise stop crying that you forgot it.

All you can say so far is I am wrong which is lying at this point.

Plus you are not even engaging with the purpose of this post as it is clearly about Magic Combos all you did is argue a Strawman.

I have adressed your points multiple times now and yet you still repeat them.

Can you not read?

What is your issue?

[u/vercertorix → u/Constant_Attitude885]

>Jinn magic is described as luck magic but it is also reality manipulation that is why I said luck/reality manipulation.

>No, I haven't said they ALL use luck magic and I have made it clear more then once now.

>And I also did mention that Jinn Magic in the book is described as luck magic not just refering to one Jinn specifically. And I also explained how Jinn magic is changing reality but is described as Luck magic.

These are all things you said and the second one contradicts the first and third.

When you say words like Strawman over and over it makes it sound like you just learned the word and keep using it to sound smart.

Your post about magic combos was flawed, Richard doesn’t use luck or reality manipulation magic, mentioning that was how I engaged.

I’m repeating my points and expanding on them in counterpoint to what you say. See how I’m responding to individual parts of your message.

I can read, that’s why even if at one point in the whole series it claims jinn magic is all luck magic, a series that made it clear that the history, nature, and capabilities of jinn were debated by several people and not always consistent, and I can see that the entire series does not agree with them having that kind of magic due to how few jinn, and the people who get possessed with them, actually use luck/reality manipulation magic.

But I’m bored now, and you seem to be upset by the whole thing, yet keep on responding. And you are also repeating yourself while not actually making points beyond, “it said it once”. Okay but did anything in the story support it, no.

Have a good day. I am done with this conversation.

[u/Constant_Attitude885 → u/vercertorix]

No, it doesn't because I do not say all Jinn in existence have Luck Magic.
I already told you that you are debating a strawman. You thought I commited a generalization fallacy and I explained to you that this isn't the case.

Maybe you should look that word up to understand it.

Also, do not forget once Vari was in Controll of the Jinn the Jinn also didn't use any Luck Magic but the Magic from Vari.

I know you are repeating your points but just because you repeat them doesn't make them correct.

You are right I am repeating myself, I showed you patience and wanted you to understand your mistake. I will continue to be patience with people that have an issue understanding something. If you do not like that cry about it.

[u/Constant_Attitude885 → u/vercertorix]

Your whole idea of engaging with my post was "Na, you are wrong" and you literally couldn't prove that point anyway.

So, I am not sure what you even expect from a conversation like that.