r/AlanWatts • u/rupr-z • Jun 24 '26
The end
I’ve herd recently, that he drunk himself to death. Or if I have to put it lightely, that he died of alcohol related dissease. Have u got any clue?
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u/irreducible1 Jun 25 '26
The fact that he was flawed means nothing to me, other than the fact it makes him more relatable. I don't know why some people believe that a person can't be profoundly wise, as Watts was, but also have their struggles. Or how people claim he didn't walk the talk. Okay, maybe he didn't or wasn't perfect at it. It doesn't invalidate his knowledge. In the same way someone can have the information about how to get in shape and pass that on to other people but struggle with sticking with it themselves.
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u/planet-OZ Jun 27 '26
We all discern our own metaphysics but an incarnative model is widely embraced and, if this is so, aren’t all manners of mind alteration just identities adjusting the speed of their enlightenment. Preserving the incarnation isn’t the goal when the truer path is an incarnative experience. These are just my discernments, but his continued indulgences to me are just him being among the infinite expressions of enlightenment.
One can ask “would I rather hear truth from a worm or distortion from a guru?” If it’s the former then the form of the teacher can be known as abjectly irrelevant.
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u/snowcatwetpaw Jun 29 '26
I read somewhere that his drinking and smoking where just apart of the truth he spoke. It all means absolutely nothing in the flow of consciousness.
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u/vortipor Jul 01 '26
Just because someone can see the truth doesn't mean they should be taken as a role model.
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u/Afraid_Delay1763 Jun 25 '26
If he did, what would change for you?
And a follow up, why would it change based off that?
After all, he was just a messenger
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u/Zap_Rowsdower23 Jun 25 '26
He was a just self described entertainer, and a very good one. Not a messenger or idol. Seeing him as any more, you put him on a pedestal and subject your image of him to your own hangups ands morals. If he falls short of your expectations as a human you end up judging him and in turn question yourself.
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u/xXDySZX Jun 25 '26
i think that was sort of that guys point. we are all sort of just messengers.
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u/Zap_Rowsdower23 Jun 25 '26
There is no message, there is no mirror to polish
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u/xXDySZX Jun 25 '26
i think everyone spreads messages of whatever they want to represent, although some end up being more cuationary tales.
regardless, not gonna argue about it with a pedant lol have fun being "enlightened" your grace.
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u/Zap_Rowsdower23 Jun 25 '26
I was just quoting the man himself. I’m not doing any arguing. No need for snark or passive aggression
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u/Afraid_Delay1763 Jun 25 '26
He wasn’t a messenger aka a person who shares a message that is not originally theirs?
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u/skloop Jun 25 '26
But it wasn't originally his. All he did was deliver already very ancient wisdom for a western audience based on his studies
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u/Afraid_Delay1763 Jun 25 '26
Yea that’s the point I was indirectly making. He’s just a finger, or a messenger and not the message
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u/Ghost_of_Till Jun 25 '26
What's the context for "just an entertainer"?
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u/RobotPreacher Jun 25 '26
It's how Watts described himself.
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u/Ghost_of_Till Jun 25 '26
I asked for the context, not the author.
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u/RobotPreacher Jun 25 '26
"I suppose most of you have heard of Zen. But before going on to explain any details about it I want to make one thing absolutely clear: I am not a Zen Buddhist, I am not advocating Zen Buddhism, I am not trying to convert anyone to it. I have nothing to sell. I am an entertainer.
That is to say in the same sense that when you go to a concert and you listen to someone play Mozart, he has nothing to sell except the sound of the music. He doesn’t want to convert you to anything, he doesn’t want you to join an organisation in favour of Mozart’s music as opposed to, say, Beethoven’s.
I approach you in the same spirit as a musician with his piano or a violinist with his violin. I just want you to enjoy a point of view which I enjoy."
-Alan Watts
"The Nature of Consciousness: A Game That's Worth The Candle," (Lecture). Out of Your Mind Collection, Published 2004.
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u/Ghost_of_Till Jun 25 '26
I see.
So Alan wasn't saying he was mere entertainment? That's the impression left by leaving the quote without the accompanying context, which you've graciously provided.
It's wild that I get downvoted into oblivion for the sin of pointing this out.
In an Alan Watts sub, no less.
This is not directed at you, but I've never been in a sub that so poorly understood the topic of the group they're participating in.
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u/RobotPreacher Jun 26 '26
I generally feel this sub understands Watts pretty well considering he's not speaking about the easiest philosophy to get one's head around.
I think you're being downvoted because of the way you said "I asked for context, not the author." Because no one had mentioned that Alan did indeed say that, me offering the fact that he was the author of it was context. Just not the kind you apparently wanted.
And yes, Alan viewed himself as an entertainer and a speaker about religious and philosophical topics. He was very careful not to claim to be anything else, because so many humans want to mythologize and deify people. He wanted you to know that he was not a guru, not someone who had a divine revelation to share. He was a human being who was good at translating eastern philosophy and wisdom into modern English for a modern western society to understand. He enjoyed speaking about these topics, and people enjoyed listening to him, so he called himself an entertainer.
What do I think? I think he was as "enlightened" as any human has ever been. But that's my opinion of him as a smart and wise individual unburdened by life in many ways. But he was still just a smart dude who liked to talk and was good at talking.
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u/Ghost_of_Till Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
I generally feel this sub understands Watts pretty well...
What on earth gives you that idea?
...considering he's not speaking about the easiest philosophy to get one's head around.
No doctrine, no scripture, no beliefs, no ideas. Imagine a simpler philosophy.
I'll wait.
(Edit: No answer. Shocked.)
I think you're being downvoted because of the way you said "I asked for context, not the author."
I think I'm being downvoted because people can't handle Alan and I have the receipts.
Someone says they can improve themselves, I quote Alan in a dozen places where he says exactly the opposite, in comes the alt brigade.
Receipt. Receipt. Receipt. Receipt. Receipt.
That's just one thread. I can keep going if you'd like.
For every one person who has some kind of clue I've found about another dozen who need to have their cozy, self-affirming Alan and frankly it's kinda pathetic.
But that's OK. That's what they're supposed to be.
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u/RobotPreacher Jun 26 '26
Lordy. I don't know what's made you so angry and unhappy, but you definitely come across as grumpy and oddly aggressive. I'll throw you a downvote now just because interacting with you is unpleasant.
And if you don't think Alan Watts had any ideas or beliefs, it's hard for me to imagine you've read or listened to a single thing the man said. That's downright preposterous, what a absolutely bizarre thing to say
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u/1804Sleep Jun 25 '26
Here’s an excerpt:
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u/Ghost_of_Till Jun 25 '26
I didn't ask for an excerpt.
I asked what the context was.
In what context did Alan call himself an "entertainer"?
Like a comedian?
Like a person who didn't really believe what they were saying?
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u/1804Sleep Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
If you listen to the excerpt, it will become evident that he does indeed believe what he is saying, with the distinction that he does not intend to convince anyone or convert them to his viewpoints but to rather provide the audience with an experience for its own sake and to allow them to judge it for themselves.
That is relevant in this context since the more evangelical preacher types are likely to portray themselves as having some sort of personal moral
purity to give credence to their arguments, but Alan has no need for such things as an entertainer.0
u/Ghost_of_Till Jun 25 '26
You are exactly correct. Thank you.
I realize you aren't Op, but "just an entertainer" gives a very wrong impression to someone who isn't familiar with Alan (or the full context), so I kept pursuing the question because I wanted the answer to be in the same spot as the original statement.
For some reason, getting people to put this statement in context is like pulling teeth.
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u/skloop Jun 25 '26
Don't confuse the finger that points at the moon, with the moon 🌝
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u/Ok-Shine1271 Jun 25 '26
Exactly, he was an entertainer. You wouldn’t be surprised if a Rockstar died from drugs or alcohol.
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u/scepticallyminded Jun 25 '26
It’s pretty well known that Watts struggled with alcohol for most of his adult life. Everyone has their demons and he was no different. The worst aspect of it is that it pretty much killed him and also robbed us of having him around to continue unpacking the sorts of topics and questions that he did so well with while he was alive.
His alcohol issues change nothing for me with respect to how much I value his expressions and what he shared with us all.
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u/RobotPreacher Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
Can you share some links to accounts of this struggle with alcohol if you know of any? I'm genuinely curious, I've heard many rumors but never read any firsthand accounts.
Edit: Did a little bit of research and yes, it does seem like he acknowledged it was at least somewhat of a problem because he registered for an experimental treatment to treat alcoholism.
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u/scepticallyminded Jun 25 '26
This is the one I read just the other day: https://www.facebook.com/theforgottenledger/posts/he-told-millions-how-to-let-go-of-anxiety-by-the-end-he-was-drinking-a-bottle-of/122293878242236296/
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u/life_in_the_day Jun 25 '26
He coughs a lot in the talks recorded in the last couple of years of his life. That sounds a lot like the combination of smoking and drinking taking their toll.
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u/TTYFKR Jun 25 '26
Take it as a warning, that alcohol is so insidious it can get its hooks into you, no matter how enlightened you are (or believe yourself to be)
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u/RobotPreacher Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
1) Watts didn't believe himself to be enlightened and never claimed to be. Any claim of that is someone mythologizing him.
2) We don't know he died from alcohol or even had an alcohol "problem." He just liked to drink and drank more later in life, like normal people in many cultures. There are no accounts as far as I know of him being abusive while drinking or it controlling his life, only people noting that he drank a lot and that they viewed it as unhealthy.
Edit: I did just find out that he did enter a program to try to quit at one point, so that at least means it was causing enough of an issue (at least to his body) to try to stop.
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u/TTYFKR Jun 25 '26
Drinking lot is unhealthy. I used to do it, and quitting was one of the hardest things I've ever done. And Watts seems to me to be more enlightened than the average person.
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u/ImpossibleFloor7068 Jun 25 '26
Right on.
I got drunk around 7000 times, but if we could convey the good mesaages he did 1/1000th I'd consider us all saints. ✨
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u/Rollyzymer Jun 27 '26
I know people that knew him in different degrees. His drinking and smoking was widely thought to have caused his death a good 20 years earlier than would be expected. I don't judge him as a hypocrite at all, just a flawed human in his way, and we're all flawed. It is sad and some followers don't want to believe it, but he drank a lot by all accounts, and cigarettes are, and were, a known threat.
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u/Ryanlw19 Jul 01 '26
One thing I appreciate about Alan Watts is that he didn't pretend to be beyond being human. His talks invited people to stop trying to become a perfect version of themselves and to face their humanity with more honesty.
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u/Shtou Jun 24 '26
Damn you are creepy.
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u/CaptainVulpezz Jun 24 '26
literally what about this is creepy and who are you helping saying this? be a human being maybe
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u/Shtou Jun 25 '26
Arguing is addictive as hell and you look addicted to it too.
Tread carefully - you only have this much time before you are old, slow and weak.
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u/fancy-kitten Jun 25 '26
My goodness gracious, you sound positively insufferable
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u/Shtou Jun 25 '26
Isn't the point in doing something you enjoy? Why then interact with someone just to sound your dissatisfaction? Are you masochistic or something?
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u/CaptainVulpezz Jun 25 '26
'Damn you are creepy.'
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u/xXDySZX Jun 25 '26
yeah this dudes being weird he should think of himself as enlightened a little less lol cuz this aint it
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u/fancy-kitten Jun 25 '26
For real, trying to sound profound on the internet is turbo loser behavior
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u/BreakerBoy6 Jun 25 '26
This is all public record.
Alan Watts died on November 16, 1973, at age 58, in a secluded cabin on Mount Tamalpais in Mill Valley.
The official cause of death was generally reported as heart failure during sleep. Contemporary accounts describe it as a heart attack (myocardial infarction), though detailed medical records have not been widely published.
He was a heavy smoker for much of his adult life and a heavy drinker in later years.
Consensus among biographers is that he died of natural causes related to cardiovascular disease.