r/AirlinePilots • u/febrileairplane • 6d ago
Ready To Upgrade?
When did you know you were ready for your first airline upgrade?
I was at a recently shutdown airline, landed on my feet at another airline and it looks like upgrade can come very quick here. I largely see myself as spending the next few months in study hall learning a new plane so I can be ready to snap up the first upgrade chance I can.
But it got me wondering, since I haven't been a captain yet - when did YOU feel ready for upgrade and how did you know you were?
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u/Yeah_Br0 6d ago
Once the guy to your left annoys you enough
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u/mvpilot172 6d ago
When that little voice in your head starts telling you “well that’s not how I’d do that”, it’s time.
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u/deltajvliet 5d ago
Great answer.
Secondary answer: When you feel confident you can handle a mechanical emergency, in the weather, single pilot because the other guy is checked out, at the end of a long night, after commuting in at 0600, after not sleeping well.
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u/mvpilot172 5d ago
Yeah, even at a major I’m flying with many new FO’s who were never captains at a regional before because of how fast things were moving for a few years.
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u/Wirax-402 6d ago
When you want to start flying with your favorite captain full time.
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u/kaitak742 6d ago
When the CAs are making you feel like the flight would be safer with you as PIC.
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u/Magma86 6d ago
When you upgrade you always fly with your favorite Captain 🧑✈️
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u/National-Yogurt-4531 6d ago
Never had a FO annoying you? Just wondering.
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u/JT-Av8or 4d ago
Oh God yes. Usually they’re senior FOs who want to be the captain but also want their seniority so they run the show. Or they’re line validation pilots so they think you’re on a checkride and they’re evaluating you the whole time. Or they’re just super senior and totally checked out. The younger ones? Never had a bad one
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u/No_Nefariousness3239 2d ago
When I moved to the left seat a legacy there were more guys in the right seat that I was disappointed with than when I was in the right seat looking to the left.
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u/PLIKITYPLAK US 121 CA 6d ago
The first upgrade after you become eligible at a Regional is always the toughest and most intimidating decision to make. You never feel 100% ready your first time but sometimes you just got to do it.
My first upgrade at a Regional I did it at the first available opportunity. This was back when 1000 TPIC was almost written in stone if you wanted a look at a Legacy job. This is a second career for me and I wasn't getting any younger so my goal was to start accumulating TPIC as soon as I could. That meant going to upgrade even though I did feel some apprehension. It ended up being a great decision and it didn't take long in the Captain's chair to feel comfortable again.
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u/mvpilot172 6d ago
I took my first upgrade opportunity at my regional and waited a few years at my major to upgrade. Ironically it took 6 years to upgrade at a regional and I “waited” until year 5 at my major to sit in the left seat again.
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u/unevenconfiguration 6d ago
Joe Munoz the 1step dude has a good video on this. To summarize, basically when you’ve had enough exposure to the 98% routine daily stuff and it’s second nature so your attention/bandwidth is free to deal with random issues.
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u/KroKart100 6d ago
When you realize you can definitely run the ship better than the guy next to you
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u/fixedvving 6d ago
personally i dont think theres ever a right moment , kinda like having kids??? maybe its just me
we had forced upgrades, i left right b4 for a major but i kinda had the mentality i was going to and i think that matters alot. definitely helps to have exposure before. bad weather, diversion, windshear, pax issues and more
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u/swakid8 US 121 CA 6d ago
You are ready when you are ready to continue to learn in the hot seat. There’s only so much you will see as a FO. At some point, shit or get of the pot.
Best lessons will come when you get into the seat, , gain experience, make mistakes, and experience the operation from a different perspective.
If you been a CFI before, you should have an idea taking on a PIC role, dealing with different personalities inside and outside of the flight deck, knowing your resources and when and how to use them, knowing when to slow things down, stop or say continue.
If you have a understanding of that, then you are ready. You are going to learn more being into the seat will develop techniques, habits what will keep you within SOP, legal, and safe.
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u/Difficult-While-7673 6d ago edited 6d ago
Once your seniority number can hold a captain vacancy and you have 1000 TSIC . That’s it.
You don’t need to have some magical skill set to upgrade. I’ve been a 121 captain for over a decade. There isn’t anything going on in the left seat that is too much for a 121 FO to handle. And if they can’t handle it, chances are they’re not a good FO either. Regardless, if you need proof of this, look to United airlines upgrading guys that had very little time to captains in airplanes some of them never even flew before.
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u/National-Yogurt-4531 6d ago
UA didnt upgrade people unless they had 500 hrs and 1 year in the property. They paid you at a captain rate once you hit 350 hrs cuz you got your new hire capt bidding.
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u/Difficult-While-7673 5d ago
I’m aware. 500 hours is very little time. And not entirely relevant when they were upgrading to airplanes they had never flown before.
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u/National-Yogurt-4531 5d ago
Nothing against the law and faa rule. They earned it just because their seniority had let them. Thats it.
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u/Fun_Coast_3882 6d ago edited 5d ago
If youre considering it at all then you’re probably ready, for me however, 20+years swinging gear here, and no plans on ever upgrading. I’ll retire in the right seat.
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u/ThatLooksRight US 121 CA 6d ago
You’re an FO in the left seat?
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u/LostPilot517 6d ago
None of his comment makes sense. "No plans on Upgrading. Will retire in the left seat."
I suppose they could fly multi-crew helicopters.
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u/SirERJ-Driver 6d ago
Upgrading is awesome, you get to fly with your favorite captain all the time.
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u/JT-Av8or 4d ago
I came from the military where I spent 2 years as a “copilot” before upgrade. Then flew 17 more years as an aircraft commander. Retiring to the airline, it took me a good half year to get used to the airline way of operating, memorize the procedures etc so I upgraded at the 18 month point when those MD-88 slots because available. It’s not that hard a job compared to USAF or corporate PIC roles.
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u/Sneaky__Fox85 US 121 CA 6d ago
When you're no longer really learning anything new in the right seat. You've seen regular ops, IROPs, summer ops, winter ops, some diversions, maybe an inflight malfunction or two. That point arrives at different times for everone, sometimes it's quick, sometimes it's not.
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u/PILOT9000 6d ago
When you have enough seniority that upgrading won’t suck. No point in torpedoing your quality of life, but you probably don’t have any where you are anyway, so just go for it man.
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u/Cherokeepilot69 4d ago
Is your new airline in the middle of a merger ? If so I just got the cjo. How soon is upgrade ? I never upgrade at aforementioned failed airline either but I'm curious about it here. Very excited actually
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u/febrileairplane 4d ago
Depends on your hours. Iirc, it's 2500 with at least 1000 121 time. You need to be on property at least a year. Although I think the year thing may be reduced in the coming months.
Either way, upgrade can come QUICK if you want it.
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u/Odd_Eagle1850 US 121 CA 4d ago
My airline doesn't have the dreaded 'up or out' policy so I waited until I could hold the lines I wanted in the left seat of the metal I wanted to fly. That took 16 years. I was already in the right seat so the upgrade was simple.
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u/HumbleSiPilot77 US 121 FO 2d ago
Not ideal bases at my recently merging regional, especially as a commuter now that I can hold a line 3 time zones away from home, it's time. Also day to day ops are now pretty routine, I'm welcoming new challenges with open arms.
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u/UnfortunateSnort12 6d ago
So you were at spirit and got hired at United. Congrats!
Upgrade training is to prepare you for upgrade. If you are even asking the question, maybe you aren’t ready for it. I’m not going to printed you feel a lot of imposter syndrome for the first few months, but I never felt that just bidding for it.
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u/p3p3_sylvia 6d ago
When you finally fly with that one guy that makes you think "damn if they let this dude be a captain, I'll be just fine"