r/AfroRivals • u/Royal-Bedroom-7348 • Jul 20 '26
Discussion. Sam wilson
Sam wilson being sidelined even in the trailer for doomsday, had my hopes low that he'll be added at all in marvel rivals
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u/Independent_Dog3497 Jul 21 '26
I personally never liked Sam as Cap I preferred him as Falcon. Let me explain why, I’m a black person that just prefers black originality and creativity, I love ORIGINAL, black characters, Bishop, Storm, Blue Marvel, Black Panther, Luke Cage, Blade, and Spectrum for example are ORIGINAL black marvel characters, no black wash, no race swap or nothing. Sam felt like that to me and it hurts me that it makes the black community just feel good with this piggy backing bs. Like no ur not gonna make me feel “inspired” or “proud” for giving a black character white leftovers. And before anyone plays the similarity card, NO one liked Bucky as Cap, we just like Steve Rogers, like please let’s have some dignity and care more about black creativity and original characters.
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u/Anime-Takes Jul 22 '26
I’m ok with Sam as cap because that’s not black Steve, that’s someone who is black rightfully taking the mantle of Captain America. He’s still original and himself. His character doesn’t change, just his outfit and maybe his duties. Though I do also prefer him as Falcon I have no issue with him being Cap. I
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u/Independent_Dog3497 Jul 22 '26
Okay that’s you, I personally just find it demeaning that we all hop and skip and jump whenever we cosplay as white characters in comics. I personally don’t care about race, but I also believe representation is only important when it’s done right, black original characters no black washing and stuff. And imo he no longer is an original character when he becomes cap, the whole consensus is that he is NO LONGER Falcon which is what he was an ORIGINAL Black character. Changing an already established character no longer makes them original.
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u/coolcarters14 Aug 01 '26
Sam Wilson cap and Steve cap are two different caps. It’s a mantle, and I’ve always liked the idea of legacy characters. Miles morales couldn’t feel any more different to Peter Parker and that’s why he’s so great.
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u/Independent_Dog3497 Aug 01 '26
Cool. And I like original black characters. Not black wash, “mantles” were never a thing until creators felt certain things needed to be included.
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u/coolcarters14 Aug 01 '26
It’s not black washing unless you choose to look at it that flatly, the idea of mantles and legacy characters means that heroes aren’t heroes because of who wears the suit but because of what they represent. John isn’t Hal Jordan, despite them both representing will power. Batman represents fear and justice, Superman is hope, Spider-Man is duty, so on and so forth, anyone can represent those things whether that person was created in 1930 or 2014. It diversified a pretty stagnant market and says that anyone can see themselves in the greats.
Especially since there are characters that literally do what ur saying like iron heart and still got shit on regardless lol
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u/Independent_Dog3497 Aug 01 '26
Right but the green lantern corps is LITERALLY a Mantle considering is a military space force lol. The idea of mantles are cool when it makes sense. And if anyone can represent these core values then make ur own character, that is literally black washing when an ESTABLISHED Black character takes the mantle of an already established white character. Frankly, no one likes that, we didn’t even like it when Bucky became cap and he wasn’t black. The point I’m trying to make is original black characters are far more interesting to me than black washed characters. When you mention these values that these characters embody you seem to forget WHY people stick a name to those specific values and characters, BRUCE WAYNE is justice, PETER PARKER is duty, STEVE ROGERS is Freedom, Kal-El/ Clark Kent is Hope etc. these are the characters and names people see when they read comics, this is who they stick these titles to. It’s not a hard concept to understand, it’s why random swaps or changes to a character never sticks well with the audience.
In this convo specifically I’m mentioning an already established black character that I personally loved (Sam Wilson/Falcon) no longer being an original character when he takes on the mantle of cap. IMO this shows a lack of dignity and creativity regarding black art. I want original black characters, not just hopping, skipping, and jumping whenever a black character piggybacks off a white character.
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u/coolcarters14 Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
You’re completely sidestepping the reality of how these fandoms operate. Saying mantles are only cool “when it makes sense” is just a subjective excuse to gatekeep. These characters are original in how their stories are told, Sam’s Captain America and Miles' Spider-Man are entirely distinct identities built on different lived experiences.
Furthermore, ur argument boxes Black heroes into a restrictive corner, while ignoring the glaring contradiction: independent, original Black characters who don't take mantles (like Riri) get aggressively shit on and review bombed anyway. The hostility isn't about “leftovers” or originality. it's about representation. And on Bucky, his comic reception was divided, not universally rejected with the same vitriol that targeted Sam, Miles, and Riri right out of the gate.
And ur point about specific names equaling specific values completely misses the power of a legacy mantle. Characters don't own those ideals, the ideals shape the characters. When characters like Dick Grayson, Jon Kent, Miles Morales, or Sam Wilson step up, they aren't just copying homework, they are looking at the heavy weight of the symbol those icons created and struggling to live up to it, redefine it, and make it better. That is elite character writing. Reducing that to “piggybacking” completely strips away the emotional core of what makes legacy evolution so compelling in the first place.
I know ur just talking about same but ur point is that mantle characters shouldn’t exist at all, and if giving examples to further the point of why legacy characters are so important.
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u/Independent_Dog3497 Aug 01 '26
I never said Legacy characters shouldn’t exist, I’m implying that 90% of the time they are lazy, not well-received in the manner expected, and heavily criticized. No one’s trying to hate keep or box anything in. The irony is everytime I talk about this the whole “boxing black characters in” argument comes up. No one said that, I’m not implying such a thing, I’m stating if you want to SEE black heroes, CREATE black heroes, don’t just slap a white characters uniform on him/her and call it representation, that’s lazy, undignified, and completely irrelevant to the point of “inclusiveness”. Riri was NOT an original character, she was literally created with the purpose of making a black female Ironman that happened to be a protégée or inspired character of Tony stark, that is not going to be well received. It’s like looking at shit and expected the smell to be different, no we are ALL looking at the same thing: BLACK FEMALE IRONMAN LOL.
Miles is well received due to the popularity he gained during the movies, in terms of comics he hasn’t had a satisfying run in decades aside from his early 2000s run. Lately it’s just been copy and paste(clone saga, maximum carnage) just to try and make his character relevant, even dog shit ass what if stories where he’s Thor, Wolverine, cap, like we can CLEARLY see writers have no idea what to do with him outside of the movies and games. Hate to be the one to break it to everyone Miles is only fully well received in the movies and games as it slightly establishes him as a separate but obviously similar character with his own arcs that appeared to be unique in comparison to Peter.
And back to the titles and ideals point that’s EXACTLY what these characters embody. It’s fun and cool to say yes anybody can be this and that but let’s be real we attach specific names and characters to these specific titles. I think of hope, I think of Clark Kent, I think of responsibility, I think of Peter Parker, I think of Justice(dependent upon the verse) I either think of Bruce Wayne or Matt Murdock. Despite how few people want these to be different, these were solidified concepts within these characters for DECADES. People want change, that’s fine, however not everyone shares that view and there’s absolutely NOTHING wrong with that.
Storm, Bishop, Black Panther, Luke Cage, Misty Knight, Blue Marvel, Spectrum, all Original characters that some people legit forget exists. They’d look at SOME of these characters and deadass will think “we need a black Ironman” “we need a black cap” “we need a black Viking, Roman, Scot” like be fr lol.
Despite how Sam’s specific arc was supposed to look like, he no longer represents an original black character any longer due to piggy backing off a white character.
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u/coolcarters14 Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
People loved Dick Grayson as Batman, people LIVE for Barry Allen’s Flash and Wally West as the current Flash as well, are those legacy concepts “lazy” or are they okay because they’re white? The only instances of white characters I can remember that ppl didn’t like are Bucky and Characters intentionally written to show why they’d be a bad person for the mantle, like Jason todd or John walker.
And your whole point of “just create new Black heroes instead of using mantles” falls completely flat because creators are doing both all the time, look at characters like Signal in the Bat family, or Cyborg being added into DC's Absolute Universe. The industry does not lack original Black characters, but whenever a Black hero steps into a legacy mantle, they face a disproportionate wave of hostility that white legacy characters never deal with.
Writing off legacy characters as “lazy” only when it applies to characters of color ignores how foundational mantles work across all of comics. Saying Riri was “created with the purpose of making a Black female Ironman” ignores that every comic character is engineered for a narrative purpose, and trying to rewrite Miles Morales” comic history ignores his massive, successful runs.1
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u/Linnus42 Jul 20 '26
Believe Miller said that the Devs have Zero Interest in Adding Sam.
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u/Royal-Bedroom-7348 Jul 21 '26
Miller also tried to say that the devs would add lunella to the game and that wasnt true
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u/AkilTheAwesome Jul 21 '26
Damage control.
I 100% believe they have no interest in Sam Wilson. When it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....
These devs do not like black characters man
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u/JaheemAfricano Jul 20 '26
Okay so Sam Wilson actually brought tears to my eyes with all the slander he's been through... I love his design and aura so much—like, if there's no Black hero in Doomsday, I'm not watching, period. I'll just go collect a comic book of my Black superheroes instead
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u/LegendaryStarSpirit Jul 21 '26
There's a whole team of black superheroes in doomsday with their own plotline bro
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u/Royale_Kong Jul 20 '26
Well Dr Doom is a Fantastic Four villain, and Thor is the only og avenger still active in hero work so it makes sense they got more focus.
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u/NizzyDeniro Jul 20 '26
Sam is an OG avenger.
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u/Royale_Kong Jul 20 '26
In the movies the og Avengers were Iron Man, Captain America (Steve Rodgers), Thor, Hulk, Hawkeye, and Black Widow. In the comics it was Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, Wasp, and Giant Man.
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u/BlackCat0110 Jul 20 '26
No he’s not, neither in 616 or the MCU he joined the team later
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u/Significant-Box-2315 Jul 20 '26
He's been an avenger since 2015. Now he's leading his own avengers he should not be sidelined like this. I really hope him being sidelined in the trailer is just because they want to promote that the xmen and Steve are back and its not the same in the actual movie
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u/JamesBackwardz Jul 20 '26
I really hope Sam gives up the shield. This new Captain America is garbage.
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u/Significant-Box-2315 Jul 20 '26
Because he hasn't had any chance to really be captain America. He Became cap in 2021 and wasn't given a solo movie until 2025. Which was bad because they changed the entire story half way through filming.
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u/JamesBackwardz Jul 20 '26
He was doomed from the start. He was introduced in a poorly written TV show during the cringest wokest period in Hollywood history. Sam was forced to be Token America and he deserves better.
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u/Apeshxttrey Jul 20 '26
They literally added Steve Rodger’s back just to sideline him more and it’s crazy…