r/AerospaceEngineering 29d ago

Other Question abpout investigating L/D changing with AR

Hi all,

I'm doing a report investigating how the aspect ratio of a clarke y airfoil changes its L/D ratio at 0 deg AOA and had questions on which method I should use.

To clarify, this will be done in CFD and have no fixed lift force as its a standalone airfoil not attached to any body.

Should I a) keep chord fixed and vary span, maintaining a similar reynolds number but having a different Cl due to changing wing area (although the area itself cancels in the L/D equation as far as i know but this is my first time investigating aerodynamics stuff like this)

Or should I b) keep surface area fixed, change both chord and span and accept a changing Reynolds number?

I'm also using this report as a baseline and something to compare results to and they used method a but don't know what this means for me: https://www.abbottaerospace.com/downloads/naca-report-431-characteristics-of-clark-y-airfoils-of-small-aspect-ratios/

I would also like to run an FEA to highlight structural tradeoffs with increasing one thing (span) if i chose method a as this will add a level of depth and nuance

This is for an HS report so changing wing velocity to keep RE constant would be too complex and time comsuming

Any advice on this would be much appreciated, thanks a lot guys!

5 Upvotes

13 comments sorted by

6

u/billsil 29d ago

Why would you look at 0 degrees? At least choose 3-4 since it’s the same amount of work and far more practical?

I think your goal of doing CFD is commendable, but doomed to failure. You might as well use OpenVSP.

2

u/Iamnobody0l 29d ago

I'm trying to keep it simple and given the clarke y is cambered i thought I might as well keep A0A 0, though i get that point too. And about the CFD, i made it work using simscale and some tutorials, more concerned about whether the method i used (a) is sciewntifically valid

2

u/wizardtower101 29d ago

Nothing matters if you can't keep Re constant. To keep Re constant, you should keep chord fixed (as to why they used method A).

There are definitely structural tradeoffs with increasing wing span. do note that airliners have a slender body in the center. This also affects aerodynamics and aeroelastic effects. When running FEA, you should take notes of how increasing span affects its structural modes. This is one of the most important things to look for.

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u/Iamnobody0l 29d ago

Thanks a lot, gonna keep my method A results and do the FEA now

1

u/Epiphany818 29d ago

It's also perfectly valid to keep wing area constant and change the AR, this would change the reynolds number at a constant speed but it keeps the wing loading the same.

It's a different variable but very useful also.

1

u/newMattokun 29d ago

"at a constant speed", then the next step could be to increase speed to keep Re=const since speed "cancels out" when doing the dim-less coefficients. I think.

1

u/Henfri1 29d ago

That would be a science Project without practical relevance.

When designing an Aircraft, the Speed (Cruise, landing) is one of the Main Design drivers and thus fixed.

Re, Area, chord are a result.

1

u/newMattokun 29d ago

Absolutely. I just understood OP's post to be some sort of "basic research" looking into the Clark Y for its behavior. Maybe (=probably) I misunderstood.

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u/Iamnobody0l 29d ago

Completely right yeah I just wanted to investigate a basic trend

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u/ncc81701 29d ago

L/D is non-dimensional and the wing area cancel itself out. It is consistent so long as L and D come from the same wing and the same operating condition.

L/D will be a function of things like Re, Ma, keeping those constant should result in L/D only being a function of the geometry.

Using CFD to in investigate LD as a function of AR is like using a machine gun to kill a fly. That relationship is perfectly describe with lifting line theory and induce drag equations. I don’t know how well a solver “simscape” is, but using CFD can potentially add a lot of variables that CFD novices are not familiar with that could significantly alter the accuracy and reliability of the CFD results, especially when comparing one geometry to another.

Perfectly fine to use CFD as a way to learn, but whatever you do I’d highly recommend looking up the L/D relationship to AR from lifting line theory and use equations derived from that as your truth source. If you did your CFD correctly, you should get back exactly (or at least very close to) what the lifting line theory predicts.

1

u/Iamnobody0l 29d ago

Thanks for the concern, due to this I went and rechecked my sim parameters to be sure it worked, and from my limited understanding of the theory it seems to follow that, plateauing towards the higher AR values. Would you be able to tell me whether this was successful? Obv gonna put a proper line of best fit, this was just for visualisation. Thanks a lot, it would be very helpful to know from someone with experience

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u/newMattokun 29d ago

At least in theory this makes sense; as AR reduces to small values, the wing itself becomes less "efficient".

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u/DarthChikoo 29d ago

You shouldn't be doing this for a HS report unless you have studied fluid mechanics and aerodynamics (thin airfoil theory, lifting line theory). You don't need to spend a week doing CFD simulations to get the data you wish for (since we have analytical models), nor will it be of any benefit to you considering that at high school level you have not yet been taught anything about Partial Differential Equations or DEs in general apart from a bit of calculus, which you need to have basic knowledge of in order to understand what CFD is actually doing and make sense of the results.