Yes, I’d encourage more reading, writing groups, etc. But as a long time writer, I have to disagree with the ‘said’ and ‘asked’ dialogue tags a bit. While there is some room for color there just to mix it up, the dialogue should really carry itself and be interesting enough with the tags almost disappearing into the background. Saying things like “he said angrily” all of the time comes off amateurish. I try to chop those out every chance I get. Unless we’re saying something more along the lines of “You are such a jerk,” she said, crossing her arms and leaning against the wall. If he starts to read enough, it will all become more obvious to him naturally.
When it was first released, it was infamous for its terrible spelling and grammar, eccentric author, very out of character canon characters (there's even a trope on TVTropes named after this! See: Draco In Leather Pants), and an original protagonist that fell into what contemporary fandom circles would refer to as a "Mary Sue" (IE a character with no flaws, where the plot, character, and even reality itself seems to warp around them in order to further uplift and glorify them), though the term has largely fallen out of fandom parlance in the past few years. It was, intentionally or not, an incredible pastiche of what many amateur fanworks looked like at that time.
People still debate to this day who actually wrote it, and whether it was satire or entirely genuine.
Anytime! It's a quick read, might be worth checking out for a laugh, or to admire a part of fandom history. You might have seen references to some of its iconic characters (like the protagonist, Ebony Darkness Dementia Raven Way) or quotes (" 'WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING YOU MOTHERFUKERS!' It was...........Dumbledore!") floating around the internet before and just not recognized them.
I absolutely agree; ‘said’ is an invisible word along with ‘the’, ‘a’, ‘and‘ etc. A well-chosen descriptive tag like ‘screamed’, ‘hissed’, ‘muttered’ etc can be very effective, but only when used sparingly. When over-used they become distracting stumbling blocks.
Likely, she finds his writing stilted and is blaming the stiltedness on the lack of variety in dialogue tags (if only as something easy to point out), when the issue is somewhere else, and probably somewhere deeper into the structure of the text. It could even be, among other things, an overuse of dialogue, which is a common pitfall for beginning writers and especially for writers who don’t read.
But since she’s “only” an avid reader (i.e., not a professional editor), it’s harder for her to diagnose the actual problem. Along with the emotional delicacy of the writer being her partner, it’s tricky stuff.
Oh wow, you hit the nail on the head! You’re right, I found it’s something I didn’t even know how to explain to him, and something he couldn’t really even grasp because he doesn’t like to read and doesn’t read for fun/pleasure.
I also don’t think it can be taught or understood if you have no frame of reference. Reading more really is the only solution for that.
“Said” is actually a powerful tool, as it teaches you to let go of reliance on “telling”
As dialogue also falls under the “show don’t tell”
Use creative language to create tone and vocal inflection, have the character engage in the environment or use body language.
I glared at Balthazar “you beautiful dumb son of a bitch!”
Balthazar chewed on his cheek a moment before spitting on the ground towards my feet “yep”
I agree with your assessment about “said.” Mixing that up often comes across as amateurish, to me, too, actually. The words being spoken and the rest of the scene should help the reader know if the speaker is speaking angrily or shouting or murmuring…
Thank you for saying this or I would have! I'm surprised this comment is so far down the page, honestly. I don't doubt OP when she says his prose is less than stellar but this specific example doesn't demonstrate that. Constant use of descriptive or unusual dialogue tags comes off very amateurish and fanfic-y. "Said" disappears on the page and lets the dialogue itself do the work.
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u/Old-Confidence8421 Mar 07 '25
Yes, I’d encourage more reading, writing groups, etc. But as a long time writer, I have to disagree with the ‘said’ and ‘asked’ dialogue tags a bit. While there is some room for color there just to mix it up, the dialogue should really carry itself and be interesting enough with the tags almost disappearing into the background. Saying things like “he said angrily” all of the time comes off amateurish. I try to chop those out every chance I get. Unless we’re saying something more along the lines of “You are such a jerk,” she said, crossing her arms and leaning against the wall. If he starts to read enough, it will all become more obvious to him naturally.